ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Riding > Racing
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 10-24-2012, 02:41 PM   #5101
Brodovitch
Team ⌘R
 
Brodovitch's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2010
Location: Athens, Greece
Oddometer: 3,171
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flood View Post
I agree that it sadly is a part of the sport, and riders as well as viewers know the dangers.
Nevertheless I can say that I, personally, was shocked a year ago.

Apart from this I want to say that HoneyBunz received a temp ban because of an unrelated issue, people don't get banned for bad taste here, or we'd run out of KLR riders within days.

Well put. I was shocked as well. But we grieve and we move on. So now that it's been one year, when is it appropriate to analyse what exactly happened, and, as someone asked a while back, when will we see Bridgestone's head on a platter?
__________________
TALES FROM THE BIVOUAC
TWOONEZERO
Brodovitch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2012, 02:41 PM   #5102
K0m4
Studly Adventurer
 
K0m4's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2010
Location: South Caucasus
Oddometer: 522
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kropotkin View Post
A lynch mob.

Now, Honeybunz stated an opinion in a rather unnecessarily offensive and unpleasant way, but there is a point there. Simoncelli has been beatified after his death, and claims made about him that are simply unjustified. Before he was killed, there was a group which championed Simoncelli's cause, and saw him as a bright young star adding some spice to what has become a rather dull series. There were those who thought he had it in him to win races, and there were a few that thought he might be a world champion.

Since his death, he has been turned into the savior of MotoGP lost to untimely tragedy. Now, everyone is suddenly convinced that Simoncelli was a shoe-in for world champ at some point, and his ascent to alien level was only a matter of time.

I remember the last time this happened. I was moving house, when a woman and her partner of the time were killed in a car accident in a Paris underpass. The world went insane for a year.

The same thing is happening now with Marco Simoncelli. There is now a collective hysteria surrounding Simoncelli, in which it has become impossible to have a calm, rational debate about him. Now that he has been dead for a year, I expect that hysteria to subside, just as it did for Diana.

I realize this is probably not a popular opinion. But frankly, the hype and hysteria is starting to overwhelm my gag reflex, and I need to spew a little bile. Feel free to ban me, badmouth me, call me all sorts of names, boycott my site. Hopefully, though, we can all calm down a little.


Reminds me of a section of this song: "The Beatles, just a band".

I never thought that far. I was a fan of his, because I really liked his style and I despised the way the "aliens" treated him. Would he have become that good? Maybe. We'll never know. But I think you're severely exaggerating when comparing to Diana - the tributes have been well-placed this year and not particularly exaggerated. Sure, they're probably more than we used to see for people who died in the 70s or whatever, but that's kind of self-explanatory. I wasn't devastated by his death either, I never even met him so how could I be? I was saddened, it's always sad when someone dies, but for me it was sad that we would never see the guy who brought back some flair to the sport ride again.

I definitely agree that racing is dangerous and they're in it with their lives on the line. Which is part of why I thought that Pedrosa and Lorenzo acted like asses when Sic was alive. They seemed to think that they were the fastest and no one should challenge them, especially not if it meant with a spectacular/risky riding style that they didn't approve of. Bullshit, I say. They're there to race, and the way JLo doesn't even put up a fight now when Pedrosa overtakes him while obvious and I would do the same, is fucking boring and arguably damaging for the sport.
__________________
Suzuki DL1000 -07 || Suzuki TL 1000 S -99 || Suzuki GSX 1100 E -82

Introduction/ride report: what's in an adventure?
K0m4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2012, 03:35 PM   #5103
bobzilla
Dirty Old Man
 
bobzilla's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2006
Location: Lost & Found again in the Great Basin
Oddometer: 874
SIC was a talented young gun. many times his ambition out weighed his talent to put it gently. It seemed to me he was first a racer with the whole " hair on fire WFO" style. Exciting? yes. but I cursed him almost as much as I cheered for him with some of the just plane bad choices he made on the race track.

What I took offence to and my comment was directed to was the lack of taste and basic curtesy from the other poster.

GO NICKY!!!!!!!!!!!! YA GOTTA PUT IT ON THE BOX AGAIN BRO!
now back to racing

yeah i no i caint spell.... no spell ck on this machine
__________________
Ride the DEZ
05 FE 550 Husaberg plated
08 FE 650 Husaberg plated
01 DR Frankenbike 650
76 CB750
bobzilla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2012, 05:36 PM   #5104
MOLAHS
Sisyphus
 
MOLAHS's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2007
Location: Brisbane
Oddometer: 1,649
Quote:
Originally Posted by HarveyMushman View Post
Understand and agree completely.
+1 A well balanced view, although I do think Honeybunz was "stirring" at the wrong time and place. The comparison with Diana was spot on. The day she died I arrived in the Middle East for another contract, and I not only was overwhelmed by the CNN, BBC Fox News but the "rumours" and conspiracy theories that are part and parcel of the ME ensured any rational discussion was doomed. Given time Marco's place in MotoGP will be in balance.
MOLAHS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2012, 06:48 PM   #5105
azkiwi
message in a bottle
 
azkiwi's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2004
Location: Upstate AZ
Oddometer: 9,159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brodovitch View Post
So now that it's been one year, when is it appropriate to analyse what exactly happened, and, as someone asked a while back, when will we see Bridgestone's head on a platter?
Its been analyzed, and over-analyzed. It was a tragic racing accident, and that's pretty much the whole story.

Sic loomed large as a personality in a sport experiencing a dearth of them. Despite that, I can't say I have really noted a canonization of him around here. Opinions had pretty much hardened before his death and few have changed since. The tasteless post of the OP aside, there's not much spilling beer over it. Mostly we are sorry for ourselves because the sport is less entertaining for his absence.

If Ducati can regain their former wet-weather form, there might be a race in the offing at PI. Let's hope.
azkiwi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2012, 07:34 PM   #5106
wbedient
MoTard
 
wbedient's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2010
Location: North Central Washington
Oddometer: 1,220
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flood View Post
people don't get banned for bad taste here, or we'd run out of KLR riders within days.
Just leave us XR650L guys alone!

__________________

2008 KTM 690 Enduro
My Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/wbedient#g/u
wbedient is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2012, 07:50 AM   #5107
brents347
Trusting my Cape...
 
brents347's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2006
Location: Where the hell is Truckee, CA?
Oddometer: 3,498
Here's a question for someone like Krop who pays way more attention to these details thanI do.

In Moto3, Khairuddin and Cortese are both riding KTM's. One Air Asia bike, and one Red Bull (factory?) KTM with a small Air Asia sticker. Are these two truly teammates, or both just on the same chassis/motor combo? And what about Salom on the Kalex KTM, is this the same chassis as Cortese or is the Kalex a private chassis like Suter?

And finally, if we have people like Suter, FTR, Kalex, etc. building chassis' and KTM and Honda both running motors in this class, why do we still have spec motors in the Moto2 class? It seems like the technology of these racing 250 fourstrokes is definately going to trickle down to the consumer over time, surely at this point they could start working on multiple factory 600 fourstrokes and have the same trickle down effect? Is their politics involved in keeping the spec motor in Moto2? O.K., yes, surely there are but what are they?

Brent
__________________
07 Yamaha R6
07 KTM 950 Super Enduro
04 KTM 250exc- plated two-stroke

01 Kawasaki KE100
74 Honda MR50
brents347 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2012, 07:56 AM   #5108
Kropotkin
Big Girl's Blouse
 
Kropotkin's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2003
Location: Dieren, The Low Low Lands of Holland
Oddometer: 7,135
Quote:
Originally Posted by brents347 View Post
Here's a question for someone like Krop who pays way more attention to these details thanI do.

In Moto3, Khairuddin and Cortese are both riding KTM's. One Air Asia bike, and one Red Bull (factory?) KTM with a small Air Asia sticker. Are these two truly teammates, or both just on the same chassis/motor combo? And what about Salom on the Kalex KTM, is this the same chassis as Cortese or is the Kalex a private chassis like Suter?
Khairuddin, Sissis, Kent, Cortese and Ajo are all run by the same team, Ajo motorsports. Different sponsors, different levels of KTM backing, but basically the same team. All more or less on the same spec bike.

Kalex is a custom chassis built the same way as the FTR Honda, but but Kalex get a lot more cooperation from KTM, as the two factories are quite close geographically. Kalex is KTM's official partner.


Quote:
Originally Posted by brents347 View Post
And finally, if we have people like Suter, FTR, Kalex, etc. building chassis' and KTM and Honda both running motors in this class, why do we still have spec motors in the Moto2 class? It seems like the technology of these racing 250 fourstrokes is definately going to trickle down to the consumer over time, surely at this point they could start working on multiple factory 600 fourstrokes and have the same trickle down effect? Is their politics involved in keeping the spec motor in Moto2? O.K., yes, surely there are but what are they?

Brent
We have spec motors in Moto2 because nobody (well, very few people) is interested in building a free motor along the lines of Moto3. At some point in the future, this may change, but not while we are in this financial hole.
Kropotkin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2012, 07:59 AM   #5109
RichBeBe
All Hail Seitan!!!
 
RichBeBe's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2004
Location: NYC
Oddometer: 6,091
Quote:
Originally Posted by brents347 View Post
Here's a question for someone like Krop who pays way more attention to these details thanI do.

In Moto3, Khairuddin and Cortese are both riding KTM's. One Air Asia bike, and one Red Bull (factory?) KTM with a small Air Asia sticker. Are these two truly teammates, or both just on the same chassis/motor combo? And what about Salom on the Kalex KTM, is this the same chassis as Cortese or is the Kalex a private chassis like Suter?
Others may have better answers. From my understanding the Ajo team is one big team and they are all on the same bikes. OK maybe not the same as there is probably a pecking order of updates, Sandro, Kent, Fahmi, Sissis. Last year Kent was on an Air Asia bike, my guess is the sponsorship dollars Air Asia is spending is less this year so only one rider.
I am not sure what they are doing now, but the original plan if I remember correctly was for the KTM and Kalex to develop two engines based on the same platform at the same time. So it is/was more than just chassis but engines as well.


Too slow Krop beat me to it.
__________________
"Remember that an enduro tests the endurance of three things: your machine, your body, and your wits. Only one has to fail to keep you from reaching the finish line." Cycle World March 1966
RichBeBe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2012, 08:21 AM   #5110
Pantah
Red Sox Nation
 
Pantah's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2004
Location: India Wharf
Oddometer: 10,071
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kropotkin View Post
The only part of that I take issue with is that Simoncelli's death was shocking. This is motorcycle racing. A year earlier, Shoya Tomizawa had been killed, and a week before Tomizawa, Peter Lenz had lost his life. Motorcycle racing is dangerous. People die. Every death is a tragedy, but it should not be a shock.
I've been around motor racing most of my life and I am shocked every time a racer is killed. We're just people and get emotional about such tragedies.
__________________
Straight ahead and faster -Bo Weaver 1970
"There I was..." -Griffin Niner Three Hotel
"One day closer to a parade..." Jonny Gomes, spring training 2013
Pantah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2012, 08:51 AM   #5111
HarveyMushman
commutingmysentence
 
HarveyMushman's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2002
Location: Virginia, USA
Oddometer: 16,188
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pantah View Post
I've been around motor racing most of my life and I am shocked every time a racer is killed. We're just people and get emotional about such tragedies.
Speaking for myself, I was shocked and saddened at the time, just as I always am.

But I'm also one who thinks there is far too much emoting in public life, to the extent that it now replaces thought in many instances and is too easily relied upon by those who would rather we continue not thinking. Probably not a topic for the Racing forum, but Krop's post resonated with me. YMMV.
__________________
Tim

photo galleries
HarveyMushman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2012, 09:43 AM   #5112
Lurky-Loo
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Oct 2009
Oddometer: 445
I try to avoid throwing cold water on celebrating either the living or the dead, but I wouldn't mind seeing an end to the tributes. We had two this year -- at Misano and Sepang -- and I think that's enough for a long, long time.

That said, HoneyBunz was out of line.
Lurky-Loo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2012, 10:31 AM   #5113
mantan
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Oct 2006
Location: Silly-Con Valley
Oddometer: 450
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kropotkin View Post
Since his death, he has been turned into the savior of MotoGP lost to untimely tragedy.
Nice straw-man argument there... but yes, his death was an untimely tragedy
mantan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2012, 11:17 AM   #5114
Irish1
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Jul 2006
Location: Paradise,CA
Oddometer: 490
I strongly agree with the grace in this statement and those that follow. It IS hard to see these dashing and courageous young men and women suffer injuries and death, but maybe a quiet contemplation of their energy and existence is better than malevolent catharsis. ADVRider is a tremendous forum and we all have, with only
a couple exceptions, great respect for each other. I wager Marco would laugh at the vitriol and say "Be cool".

Quote:
Originally Posted by HarveyMushman View Post
Speaking for myself, I was shocked and saddened at the time, just as I always am.

But I'm also one who thinks there is far too much emoting in public life, to the extent that it now replaces thought in many instances and is too easily relied upon by those who would rather we continue not thinking. Probably not a topic for the Racing forum, but Krop's post resonated with me. YMMV.
Irish1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2012, 11:24 AM   #5115
swimmer
armchair asshole
 
swimmer's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2007
Location: tucson
Oddometer: 4,190
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kropotkin View Post




We have spec motors in Moto2 because nobody (well, very few people) is interested in building a free motor along the lines of Moto3. At some point in the future, this may change, but not while we are in this financial hole.
I gotta say if it aint broke don't fix it. The racing in Moto2 is top notch and won't improve with multiple engine manufactures. I can understand the appeal of different engines but I want to be entertained. Maybe Honda decides not to be an only supplier at some point? Until then leave well enough alone and continue with the great racing.
swimmer is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 11:30 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014