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Old 11-16-2011, 12:29 AM   #46
xymotic
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Originally Posted by eepeqez View Post
Is the product protected by patent or registered design? No?

Then what is the problem; it's just good old American capitalism working exactly as it should.
No, AT BEST it's theft of intellectual property.

Theft is wrong, this is not a difficult concept people. I do hope it's patented, but even if it isn't, there is still the basic principal of right and wrong. And even if GL is patented, this stuff happens everyday, and yeah, we bring it on ourselves.
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Old 11-16-2011, 12:52 AM   #47
guns_equal_freedom
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Looking at bags made by each manufacturer I see that the Motorcycle Adventure Gear Sherpa tank bag has some features that I wish the Giant Loop Fandango bag had.

Compartments on the outside of the bag to store shit you want to get to without having to open the whole bag up, like a camera, face shield cleaner and rag, wallet/cell phone.

It also has a mesh zipper close compartment inside of the bag.

I would love it if the Giant Loop bag had this, if it did this is where I would store my registration, insurance and emergency medical / contact info.

I would also like it if the Giant Loop bag had a QD buckle on the front strap, it was a pain to remove the front of the bag to gain access to the fuel filler.

I really like the Giant Loop Fandango bag, I just wish it had some of the other features of the Sherpa bag.
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Old 11-16-2011, 01:09 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guns_equal_freedom View Post
Looking at bags made by each manufacturer I see that the Motorcycle Adventure Gear Sherpa tank bag has some features that I wish the Giant Loop Fandango bag had.

Compartments on the outside of the bag to store shit you want to get to without having to open the whole bag up, like a camera, face shield cleaner and rag, wallet/cell phone.

It also has a mesh zipper close compartment inside of the bag.

I would love it if the Giant Loop bag had this, if it did this is where I would store my registration, insurance and emergency medical / contact info.

I would also like it if the Giant Loop bag had a QD buckle on the front strap, it was a pain to remove the front of the bag to gain access to the fuel filler.

I really like the Giant Loop Fandango bag, I just wish it had some of the other features of the Sherpa bag.
That statement cannot be correct.. as stated it is a copy of the bag so it must be identical

if it aint .. what all the fuss about

sooks
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Old 11-16-2011, 01:20 AM   #49
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That statement cannot be correct.. as stated it is a copy of the bag so it must be identical

if it aint .. what all the fuss about

sooks
There are only so many ways to make a tank-bag. The Fandango is a very good bag, but it's design is not terribly different from others (just better).
However The Giant-loop, Mojavi and Coyote are radically different from EVERY other design on the market, and yeah, the item in question are exact copies.

I also know that GL has had a LOT of pressure to move manufacturing off-shore. SO I guess I am kinda surprised at the attitude that it's cool to just steal from people. And FORCE those jobs offshore so people can bitch about price a little bit more.

I guarantee one thing though, If I see one of these bags in a store or on another riders bike, I will be VERY vocal about it.


(I do think it's a little ironic that a guy that rides with a certain inmate on this site wants a bag with more chances to snag a branch though)
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Old 11-16-2011, 01:31 AM   #50
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I take a little issue with the "premium price" thing. You think it's premium because it seems expensive to you, but you (most likely) haven't ever sourced the fabric and found someone to build your design in relatively small quantities. That means that you don't have all the information. What he charges is only a part of the mix, what his costs are is the missing part of the info.

The assumption is that some guy is sitting back making huge profit margins. For all you know GL is making $3 per item sold.


I also suspect you wouldn't be so relaxed about it if you'd developed a prototype, tested it, gone through 3 or 4 more iterations, sourced the fabric, bought a load of it, found someone to build them for you, set up shipping / billing / etc... then someone ripped off your design. You'd probably feel like you put in all the work and effort so someone else could reap the rewards, which is exactly what this is.

I don't own anything GL, don't know if I ever will.... but you can bet your ass I won't own this other stuff.
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Old 11-16-2011, 01:49 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by Dawg_enD View Post
I take a little issue with the "premium price" thing. You think it's premium because it seems expensive to you, but you (most likely) haven't ever sourced the fabric and found someone to build your design in relatively small quantities. That means that you don't have all the information. What he charges is only a part of the mix, what his costs are is the missing part of the info.

The assumption is that some guy is sitting back making huge profit margins. For all you know GL is making $3 per item sold.


I also suspect you wouldn't be so relaxed about it if you'd developed a prototype, tested it, gone through 3 or 4 more iterations, sourced the fabric, bought a load of it, found someone to build them for you, set up shipping / billing / etc... then someone ripped off your design. You'd probably feel like you put in all the work and effort so someone else could reap the rewards, which is exactly what this is.

I don't own anything GL, don't know if I ever will.... but you can bet your ass I won't own this other stuff.


AND, the knockoff's ain't all that much cheaper. if they were completely equal in quality AND customer service, they should be about that much cheaper just cuz they are built in a sweat shop in China. But I'm betting they aren't the same quality, and they've started off in biz by being dishonest and not doing any design or testing... so I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that in fact, the Knock-Off's are the ones with the rapacious pricing model.
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Originally Posted by Just_Sean
Oh for ***k's sake Aaron. Please link us to my fascist, racist or homophobic posts.
"Anyone who doesn't take truth seriously in small matters cannot be trusted in large ones either."
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Old 11-16-2011, 01:57 AM   #52
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BTW, negative comments are allowed. We shall see about that
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Just_Sean
Oh for ***k's sake Aaron. Please link us to my fascist, racist or homophobic posts.
"Anyone who doesn't take truth seriously in small matters cannot be trusted in large ones either."
Albert Einstein


Baja trip to the tip
6:10 to Yuma
trials and tribulations in the Mojave
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Old 11-16-2011, 02:21 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by xymotic View Post


(I do think it's a little ironic that a guy that rides with a certain inmate on this site wants a bag with more chances to snag a branch though)
you wouldnt see me either bag as i dont like them ... as for riding with inmates .. i thought thats why i joined ... find fellow riders and learn a few things along the way

i have done both
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Old 11-16-2011, 03:52 AM   #54
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I went to the leprous website and was able to contain myself from posting a review.

I wanted to come over and say hello before the Vendor thread on this issue is booted to CS&M.
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Old 11-16-2011, 05:12 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by xymotic View Post
No, AT BEST it's theft of intellectual property.

Theft is wrong, this is not a difficult concept people.
Are you wearing trousers made by the first person who ever thought to make them?

Or do you wear a kilt on principle because trousers made by anyone else would be theft?


What is and is not intellectual property?

Funnily enough we have structures in place to settle just this sort of problem. A patent will protect your novel idea, if indeed it is novel and not obvious to practitioners in the field. Without a patent, registered design or similar you have no protection.

Even a patent provides protection only for a limited period of time.
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Old 11-16-2011, 05:19 AM   #56
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...if they were completely equal in quality AND customer service, they should be about that much cheaper just cuz they are built in a sweat shop in China.
Cost of manufacture is just one of many factors which work into determining the optimum retail price.

Put simply, you do not sell a product for the lowest price you can get away with, limited by your cost of manufacture. You sell for the highest price you can get away with, limited by a balance between the public's willingness to pay and your capacity to meet the resultant level of demand. Is anyone here prepared to claim that they work for the employer who offered them the lowest wage which they could still house, cloth and feed themselves on?

If two products are indeed completely equivalent, then they can be expected to sell for very similar prices, regardless of differences in the cost of manufacture.

It is rare that two similar products really are completely equivalent in the eyes of the consumer; often a label alone will allow an upmarket brand to charge more for a similar product simply because the buyer values the perception that they have bought the more expensive product. Look at the trouble milk or petrol retailers go to to try to convince you that their product is somehow superior to identical 4% milk or 91 Octane petrol, and yet these products are very price competitive...
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Old 11-16-2011, 05:28 AM   #57
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Jeepers, blatantly stealing GL's designs

Brutal, I for one cannot envision how someone could support a company that does stuff like that.
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Old 11-16-2011, 06:11 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by xymotic View Post
No, AT BEST it's theft of intellectual property.

Theft is wrong, this is not a difficult concept people. I do hope it's patented, but even if it isn't, there is still the basic principal of right and wrong. And even if GL is patented, this stuff happens everyday, and yeah, we bring it on ourselves.
IP is a fucked conecpt, worse than the patent system in the US, if that's possible. please, please don't perpetuate even more fucking lawyers by playing into this idiotic concept of IP....

by the way, it's just a bag. several companies make nice ones. the market will weed them out the knockoffs, let it happen.
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Old 11-16-2011, 06:17 AM   #59
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We don't have to buy it though! Remember the old buy made in the USA products we do have a choice as consumers to not sell our industries to other countries!
you do have a choice. and sometimes I think the only power I have left is where I spend my money. Thats why I have never spent money at Walmart.

Dave and Harold are good guys that make a great product. It is expensive but I have over 5000 hard off road miles on my coyote and not one problem
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Old 11-16-2011, 08:02 AM   #60
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A few thoughts:

1) I doubt that there is any copyright or patent or trademark infringement.

2) Would you buy from somebody selling a ripoff where you didn't know how well it has been tested or designed? From somebody that not only rips off a design, but possibly puts up bogus reviews and such? If you had problems with the product, how well do you think a person with such ethics would stand behind their product? How much do you think they will cut corners on the design and manufacture and say "that's good enough to sell it, once they have bought it we don't give a damn how well it holds up"?

Or would you buy from some who is the original designer who rides dirt bikes on *real* off-road trails and continually makes improvements and who stands behind their products?

For me, I will pay more money for the latter because I want the stuff I use to hold up and not fall apart when I am fifty miles from nowhere.

As for the extra bags on the outside - no - I want a slim design that isn't going to flop around, get torn off by brush or falling down. Plus I would assert those extra (look like cordura, not rubberized canvas) bags are not waterproof and they would put extra stress on the main bags, not to mention add another seam and leak point. I am sure that GL could add those extra bags if they wanted to - but the fact that they saw the problems and said "no, that isn't a good design, it will cause problems" even though that would have got them more sales tells me they are more interested in quality than money.

No thanks - I like my GL products and I appreciate the design and effort that GL has put into them and the ethics they have in standing behind any problems. You can't buy that kind of vendor in this world so when you find one you stick behind them - you don't buy cheap knock offs instead. Let the other fools buy the cheap stuff - I will go with the original as long as the quality and service is there.

YMMV
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