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Old 06-18-2013, 04:07 AM   #7141
tommu56
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Location: limerick pa / waterville pa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jules083 View Post
What was the condition and brand of your screwdriver? Phillips screwdrivers tend to wear quickly, which will strip a screw. Sometimes a new, properly sized screwdriver with a lot of pressure will get 'almost stripped' screws out. By a lot of pressure I mean put your weight into it pushing down while turning.

If not you're left with drilling, which can easily turn into a project.

I would consider riding to a car mechanics shop, they have tools and experience for this kind of thing and probably wouldn't charge more than $10 or so.

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impact screwdriver



http://www.harborfreight.com/impact-...ase-37530.html
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Old 06-18-2013, 04:14 AM   #7142
XDragRacer
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Originally Posted by bassplayinroach View Post
I've never dealt with a stripped bolt/nut before... How can I get past this so I can flush me front brake fluid??
With a Dremel Moto-Tool cut-off wheel, a slot for a flat-blade screwdriver can be cut in the boogered screw head.

Successful extraction is enhanced by the use of an IMPACT DRIVER and a flat-blade bit.

Steel machine screws fastened into alloy castings, like the master cylinder reservoir (or carb body) are subject to Galvanic corrosion as a result of the contact of the dissimilar metals; this corrorsion consequently results in tremendous adhesion.

EDIT: Honoring Tsotsie's comment below:

------------------------

CAUTION: You do NOT want to use an 8-pound sledge hammer, swung in a full arc above the shoulders, when using an impact dirver! Similarly, a 600-ft-lb pneumatic impact wrench might be overkill. Short, sharp, insistent taps on a hand-held impact driver with a modest striker like a medium ball-peen hammer is the way to go!



---------------------------

An impact driver torques the screw only when the thread tension is relieved by a hammer blow; thus . . . a good chance rises on extracting the screw, even though "stuck" in the casting.

Otherwise, screw extraction is improved at the outset by using the correct bits. The master cylinder reservoir cover screw heads are JIS (Japanese Industrial Standard) profile, NOT SAE Phillips-head.

Image from Motorcycle Consumer News:



Like an impact driver (less than $ 10, with bits, at Harbor Freight), a set of JIS screwdrivers and/or JIS screwdriver bits is a good investment when the prospect of working on a Japanese motorcycle arises, IMHO.

For replacement screws in your master cylinder reservoir, you might consider flat-head hex-socket (Allen) screws.

Good luck; just sharing some approaches short of drilling out the existing screws.

XDragRacer screwed with this post 06-18-2013 at 06:09 AM
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Old 06-18-2013, 05:01 AM   #7143
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Originally Posted by mxboy96 View Post
Hey guys. I'm aware of the KLR oil burning problem, but I'm curious if anyones ever come up with anything as to why? Isn't it the rings that are the main problem? My '12 is already starting to use a little, but yet it just turned over 8000 miles too, but still that's not good. I've been told the 685 big bore kit has good quality aftermarket rings that will take care of it. Let me know what you know! thanks
The pre 08 pistons have a history of the lands between the rings breaking. Kawa then redesigned the piston and rings for 08. These rings did not have enough pressure on the bore (about 3lbs). This caused, in many cases, oil burning, particularly at higher piston speeds - about 5k rpm. The rings would 'float'. I believe that there was a piston and ring redesign again in later 09 and possibly another.

The late Cary Aspy, together with JE pistons, redesigned the piston and rings for the 685 and 705. The ring pressure there is about 11lbs. The JE piston is a quality forged unit, not cast like the stock pistons are. I now have 40K miles on a 685 and despite many 800 mile + days most at 5K rpm, no oil measurable usage.

In some cases the cyclinder bores were the fault and were found to be slightly oval. Possibly caused by it being bored too quickly or other casting issues. Some have speculated the ovalling is caused by the primitive cooling system, but I have seen no convincing evidence or argument that supports that opinion - certainly a lot of uninformed tribal knowledge circulated. And there is a lot of that among rank and file KLR owners.
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Old 06-18-2013, 05:04 AM   #7144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XDragRacer View Post
With a Dremel Moto-Tool cut-off wheel, a slot for a flat-blade screwdriver can be cut in the boogered screw head.

Successful extraction is enhanced by the use of an IMPACT DRIVER and a flat-blade bit.

Steel machine screws fastened into alloy castings, like the master cylinder reservoir (or carb body) are subject to Galvanic corrosion as a result of the contact of the dissimilar metals; this corrorsion consequently results in tremendous adhesion.

An impact driver torques the screw only when the thread tension is relieved by a hammer blow; thus . . . a good chance rises on extracting the screw, even though "stuck" in the casting.

Otherwise, screw extraction is improved at the outset by using the correct bits. The master cylinder reservoir cover screw heads are JIS (Japanese Industrial Standard) profile, NOT SAE Phillips-head.

Like an impact driver (less than $ 10, with bits, at Harbor Freight), a set of JIS screwdrivers and/or JIS screwdriver bits is a good investment when the prospect of working on a Japanese motorcycle arises, IMHO.

For replacement screws in your master cylinder reservoir, you might consider flat-head hex-socket (Allen) screws.

Good luck; just sharing some approaches short of drilling out the existing screws.
Add a word of caution; the master cylinder is made of cast aluminum and will not take too much in the line of impact tool use. Tapping and JIS tools as suggested by Xdrag are the way to go.
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Old 06-18-2013, 05:19 AM   #7145
stuser
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsotsie View Post
The pre 08 pistons have a history of the lands between the rings breaking. Kawa then redesigned the piston and rings for 08. These rings did not have enough pressure on the bore (about 3lbs). This caused, in many cases, oil burning, particularly at higher piston speeds - about 5k rpm. The rings would 'float'. I believe that there was a piston and ring redesign again in later 09 and possibly another.

The late Cary Aspy, together with JE pistons, redesigned the piston and rings for the 685 and 705. The ring pressure there is about 11lbs. The JE piston is a quality forged unit, not cast like the stock pistons are. I now have 40K miles on a 685 and despite many 800 mile + days most at 5K rpm, no oil measurable usage.

In some cases the cyclinder bores were the fault and were found to be slightly oval. Possibly caused by it being bored too quickly or other casting issues. Some have speculated the ovalling is caused by the primitive cooling system, but I have seen no convincing evidence or argument that supports that opinion - certainly a lot of uninformed tribal knowledge circulated. And there is a lot of that among rank and file KLR owners.
Lucky then that the 685 / 705 fix both issues then

Wondering if the 705 is worth the extra bother?
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Old 06-18-2013, 05:49 AM   #7146
GO_OUTSIDE!
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Originally Posted by draley View Post
No. Not unless you damage it in some way. You also do not need to replace the crush washer, unless you notice some leakage.

I have changed my oil and filter probably about 7 times in 9500 miles. I did replace mine once for no reason, but I saved the original as a spare because I don't think there is anything wrong with it.

I have never seen a single drop of oil come out of there in between oil changes.
After working at the parts counter and seeing many stripped cases i strongly suggest replacing the crush washer every oil change until you have more experience torqueing the plug.
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Old 06-18-2013, 05:53 AM   #7147
GO_OUTSIDE!
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Originally Posted by draley View Post
I use my KLR ~75/25, dirt/street ratio. Basically only enough slab to get me to the dirt roads. It has been amazingly reliable considering what I've put it through. I have had none of those issues either. I did the doo, but the original was in perfect condition, so it didn't even need that.

I have had only a couple of loose bolts, and I did get a piece of crud in my carb bowl and had to get that out, but other than that, it has been the perfect bike.

I use Rotella T6 religiously, I zero my tripometer after each fill-up to gage my fuel level, and I NEVER use the petcock. It is a vacuum system, so the petcock is off when the motor is not running. You do not have to mess with it and cause it to start leaking.
Its not the leaking we have trouble with it is intermitent fuel flow, most likely caused by the pulsing vacuum jamming the plunger into its seat.
In any case i guess i shouldnot be comparing a single cylinder dualsport to a 4 cylinder street bike.
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Old 06-18-2013, 06:25 AM   #7148
Aprilia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bassplayinroach View Post
Ordered a new filter and should have it in the morning. Looking forward to the change, first one for me on the new beast.

Attempted to bleed the brakes tonight as well. Never done it before. The rear went fine, I felt good about it too. The front... Well, I couldn't even get the cover off the reservoir. The bolts started to stri so I just gave up. If I attempted one more time they will for sure be toast.

I've never dealt with a stripped bolt/nut before... How can I get past this so I can flush me front brake fluid??

Thanks in advance you guys are always so helpful
As others mentioned correctly...you should only be using JIS phillips head screw drivers. At this point your best option is attempting with some light tapping with an impact driver.
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Old 06-18-2013, 06:39 AM   #7149
XDragRacer
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Originally Posted by Tsotsie View Post
Add a word of caution; the master cylinder is made of cast aluminum and will not take too much in the line of impact tool use. Tapping and JIS tools as suggested by Xdrag are the way to go.
My previous post above edited to incorporate the caution; thanks!
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Old 06-18-2013, 12:03 PM   #7150
sandalscout
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My buddy Matt and I took off for some riding yesterday, and camped in one of the State Parks. Great day of riding, hanging in our hammocks during awesome storms, just a good time.

We took of for dinner after setting up camp, and about 1/4 of a mile from the park as we went back, a deer hit me. It darted out of a ditch and slammed into the tank, lower fairing, my leg, and my saddlebag. I was doing 35 MPH, and it was not a little dear. I was blown away, as I saw it's head just as it hit the bike, and immediately thought "I'm going down!"

Some how, I didn't. I still can't believe it wasn't worse than it was. Matt was behind me and said he never had time to really react himself, and he thought it was going to get wrapped up in the rear end of the bike. The deer fell down and ended up on the ground facing the ditch, finally getting up, turning around and crossing the road as it originally intended.

There were three cars behind us, and three cars coming from the other direction. All six cars slowed down, and it was clear that at least 2 of them saw exactly what happened..... not a single one stopped. Another guy on a bike did, as did the ranger who checked us in, as he was leaving the campground for the night.

I had to remove the fairing (trophy now!) and bend the support bar that holds the overflow bottle forward about 3 inches. CRAZY EVENING!



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Old 06-18-2013, 02:41 PM   #7151
One Fat Roach
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jules083 View Post
What was the condition and brand of your screwdriver? Phillips screwdrivers tend to wear quickly, which will strip a screw. Sometimes a new, properly sized screwdriver with a lot of pressure will get 'almost stripped' screws out. By a lot of pressure I mean put your weight into it pushing down while turning.

If not you're left with drilling, which can easily turn into a project.

I would consider riding to a car mechanics shop, they have tools and experience for this kind of thing and probably wouldn't charge more than $10 or so.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2
The screwdriver is a bit old but not worn or in terrible but not great condition. The screw I think is just over tightened. I pressed down as hard as I could and tried to turn but no dice. I have to ride home 38 miles today and really need front brake fluid its pretty low. I'll try the car mechanic shop hopefully they can help me out
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Old 06-18-2013, 02:41 PM   #7152
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Originally Posted by mxboy96 View Post
You should get a vid for us of the Leo Vince. I'm interested in one but don't want to buy it and then not like it, ya know?




http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...psc275ce5b.mp4

Let me know if you can/can't see the pics and video. I'm doing this from my iPhone and can't tell.
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Old 06-18-2013, 03:36 PM   #7153
XDragRacer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bassplayinroach View Post
The screwdriver is a bit old but not worn or in terrible but not great condition. The screw I think is just over tightened. I pressed down as hard as I could and tried to turn but no dice. I have to ride home 38 miles today and really need front brake fluid its pretty low. I'll try the car mechanic shop hopefully they can help me out
"What we've got here, is FAILURE to communicate!" (Strother Martin, in "Cool Hand Luke"). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fuDDqU6n4o



Regardless of your screwdriver's age and condition, it's probably a Phillips-head screwdriver, NOT a JIS screwdriver, matching the screw head. Only a JIS screwdriver will mate with a JIS screw for maximum torque without mangling the screw head.

Regardless, the screw most likely is stuck because of Galvanic corrosion, not from "over-tightening;" an impact driver is recommended for these difficult situations. Thus, in your situation, cutting a flat-blade slot in the existing screw head and use of an appropriately-sized bit with an impact driver is recommended for extraction.

Allen-head replacement screws (additional tip, add anti-seize compound to new screws) recommended.

q.v., Post # 7143, and others with similar analyses and recommendations, above.

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Old 06-18-2013, 04:27 PM   #7154
CA Stu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bassplayinroach View Post
Ordered a new filter and should have it in the morning. Looking forward to the change, first one for me on the new beast.

Attempted to bleed the brakes tonight as well. Never done it before. The rear went fine, I felt good about it too. The front... Well, I couldn't even get the cover off the reservoir. The bolts started to stri so I just gave up. If I attempted one more time they will for sure be toast.

I've never dealt with a stripped bolt/nut before... How can I get past this so I can flush me front brake fluid??

Thanks in advance you guys are always so helpful
I got this! Seen it many times.

The front brake reservoir screws are notorious for doing that.

The removal of those soft screws is easy.
Do not need an impact of any sort, simply drill the heads off (they are really soft) and remove the cover. You can then use some needle nose / vise grips / needle nose vise grips* and grip the remnants of the screw and turn it out easily.

*my personal preference

The remedy is replacement screws.

Easy money.
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Old 06-18-2013, 04:34 PM   #7155
Tsotsie
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Joined: Nov 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sandalscout View Post
My buddy Matt and I took off for some riding yesterday, and camped in one of the State Parks. Great day of riding, hanging in our hammocks during awesome storms, just a good time.

We took of for dinner after setting up camp, and about 1/4 of a mile from the park as we went back, a deer hit me. It darted out of a ditch and slammed into the tank, lower fairing, my leg, and my saddlebag. I was doing 35 MPH, and it was not a little dear. I was blown away, as I saw it's head just as it hit the bike, and immediately thought "I'm going down!"

Some how, I didn't. I still can't believe it wasn't worse than it was. Matt was behind me and said he never had time to really react himself, and he thought it was going to get wrapped up in the rear end of the bike. The deer fell down and ended up on the ground facing the ditch, finally getting up, turning around and crossing the road as it originally intended.

There were three cars behind us, and three cars coming from the other direction. All six cars slowed down, and it was clear that at least 2 of them saw exactly what happened..... not a single one stopped. Another guy on a bike did, as did the ranger who checked us in, as he was leaving the campground for the night.

I had to remove the fairing (trophy now!) and bend the support bar that holds the overflow bottle forward about 3 inches. CRAZY EVENING!




Glad you are OK!
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