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View Results: Would you consider participating in a group buy?
Yes, if the price is right. 13 86.67%
No, these cartridges are way to expensive. 0 0%
No, USD forks will work so much better 2 13.33%
Voters: 15. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-26-2012, 11:30 PM   #691
OZbeemer
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So here we go...
5w oil on each side. Heavier springs (5.8) set to the settings in the instructions.

First test. Bike on center stand front wheel off ground. Eased off center stand to support bike weight ( ride height?) = a difference of 1 5/8" difference.

Will try to get sag #'s in the next couple days.

Edit: me on the bike w/out side boxes and gear= 2.5" of sag. All numbers done with zip ties on forks!

OZbeemer screwed with this post 07-26-2012 at 11:37 PM
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Old 07-27-2012, 12:21 AM   #692
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Quote:
Originally Posted by One Less Harley View Post



+ is backing the screw out, - is bottoming it out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stagehand View Post
Also my semantics concur with yours. Full damping would be no movemnet allowed- very stiff. No damping and it would oscillate forever.

More rebound damping (+) should make the rebound stiff and fast, and if too + will push up and off of obstacles after the compression. It would need to go - if it felt like it wanted to dance off Things.

Don't mind me, just another interested (and confused) observer.
Where did that image OLH posted come from?
Stagehand's description seems right for the diagram, but that seems the wrong way around to me.
I'm with Renner that, logically (to me) the + should mean more damping and the - should mean less (thus the the results would be the opposite to that in the diagram).
That is the way the WP50 extreme adjusters work. (like my forks on the G/S)

and far be it from me to give out suspension advice, but SS seems to have it right. Spring weight and preload to set your correct sag, FIRST, and then after that compression and rebound damping are a separate issue.

On the damping issue though, I can only agree with SS so far- yes, don't try to compensate for the wrong spring/preload with damping.
But using as little damping as possible?
I have read the theory a few times (and it makes sense to me) that with a cartridge fork and a properly tuned shim stack one should be aiming to run more rather than less damping (ie around two 3rds of the way or so to max) - ie aiming to flow more rather than less oil through the shim stack. If you are running zero damping on your adjusters then you are primarily flowing oil through the bypass circuit (taking us back to linear damping) and pretty much negating the whole advantage of upgrading from our old bmw forks to a cartridge fork with valves and and tunable shim stacks.
Of course that is just my take on it, and only gathered from me trying to read about and grasp the potential advantage I've gotten from doing my (WP50) front end swap on the G/S

Whatever the case, I've watched and followed this thread from the beginning, and I hope it all works out well for you guys.
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Old 07-27-2012, 04:50 AM   #693
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Being from Wisconsin ( the land of cheese, beer, and brats) I may need the heavier springs! I'll let you guys know.
Stage did you blow off the rally?
Hell no! Here with Jenna and Twofur, ENtre-preneer and JAck Splash and a bunch of other ADV'ers.

Got in about 11pm last night. Racing starts at noon
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Old 07-27-2012, 05:46 AM   #694
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Hell no! Here with Jenna and Twofur, ENtre-preneer and JAck Splash and a bunch of other ADV'ers.

Got in about 11pm last night. Racing starts at noon
Good to hear!! Good Luck look forward to hearing how it goes!!
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Old 07-27-2012, 06:56 AM   #695
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The drawing of the adjustment is one I cobbled together on MS paint, just to have something to look at. Yeah, probably should change the (+) and (-) around on the compression side. Drawing changed. IS this better now???




My spring flats were etched with 48. But definitely EASY to bottom out!!!
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Old 07-27-2012, 07:29 AM   #696
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damping
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Old 07-27-2012, 01:29 PM   #697
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Again, I have not read through everything here but it sounds like the problem is you need more preload and/or a stiffer spring. Most preload adjusters barely adjust preload. That is fine ONCE the preload in in the right ball park. Before that, it does you NO good. I hope that helps?

Remember that preload and most all damper adjustments are not linear! Four clicks, the first or last two probably do nothing. 30 clicks? The first or last 15 clicks probably do nothing. It's always the first in my experience but I hope you get the picture.

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Old 07-27-2012, 03:31 PM   #698
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That seems to jibe with my reality, here.


Finished Day 1. I'm pretty impressed. I dont think I need stiffer springs, but I would like to see what a spacer can do.
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Old 07-27-2012, 03:57 PM   #699
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Jason- did you have race Tech emmulators before?? What was your spring rate before??

How do you rate the inserts?? and no bottoming out issues under hard braking??? Interested in your feedback.
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Old 07-27-2012, 04:48 PM   #700
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no just had progressives, and maybe an inch of spacer.

I think they are working well. SMooth runnings No bottoming.


Serioulsy, its a glide, where before it was seems (in comparison) to be quite jarring.



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Old 07-27-2012, 05:31 PM   #701
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Ir sounds like your preload is in the ball park Sh. At that point I adjust preload by washers. It will make no measurable difference in sag but tons of difference in the ride.

That jarring you use to feel was probably too much compression damping. A good goal is to set your spring up so that you have to use as little compression damping as possible.

I always bad mouth Progressive springs in every other model but the different GS's. I don't have any experience with them there. But still, you always want to set up your entire setup as soft as what you can get away with. Don't error on the stiff side of what's right. The stiff side of whatever is right for you will get you on your face. The soft side gets you 'feedback'! I'm laughing but it's true! Too much feedback is better than not enough!

I am hoping I helped! A little?
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Old 07-27-2012, 05:50 PM   #702
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ontic View Post
Don't mind me, just another interested (and confused) observer.
Where did that image OLH posted come from?
Stagehand's description seems right for the diagram, but that seems the wrong way around to me.
I'm with Renner that, logically (to me) the + should mean more damping and the - should mean less (thus the the results would be the opposite to that in the diagram).
That is the way the WP50 extreme adjusters work. (like my forks on the G/S)

and far be it from me to give out suspension advice, but SS seems to have it right. Spring weight and preload to set your correct sag, FIRST, and then after that compression and rebound damping are a separate issue.

On the damping issue though, I can only agree with SS so far- yes, don't try to compensate for the wrong spring/preload with damping.
But using as little damping as possible?
I have read the theory a few times (and it makes sense to me) that with a cartridge fork and a properly tuned shim stack one should be aiming to run more rather than less damping (ie around two 3rds of the way or so to max) - ie aiming to flow more rather than less oil through the shim stack. If you are running zero damping on your adjusters then you are primarily flowing oil through the bypass circuit (taking us back to linear damping) and pretty much negating the whole advantage of upgrading from our old bmw forks to a cartridge fork with valves and and tunable shim stacks.
Of course that is just my take on it, and only gathered from me trying to read about and grasp the potential advantage I've gotten from doing my (WP50) front end swap on the G/S

Whatever the case, I've watched and followed this thread from the beginning, and I hope it all works out well for you guys.
I think we are actually getting somewhere. Ontic, remember that I advise to use the least amount of damping possible but at the same time I say that I have my rebound adjuster maxed out on my shock. That is the least amount possible for myself! I couldn't ride like I do with less. I do use the least amount possible but the least I can get away with is the most my shock offers. On the other hand I have my compression adjuster on the least amount possible. Like I said earlier, probably for getting a lot of compression out of adding rebound. The two adjustments are NOT totally separated in most shocks!

The main advantage of using a shim stack in most of the models is finally being able to get enough rebound without too much compression. Separated damping? I don't think I would need a shim stack but that's just me. If I couldn't get what I wanted from different oil I suspect I would just modify my damper rods.
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Old 07-27-2012, 08:46 PM   #703
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This sucks, don't know why I'm bottoming out (175 mm and gators are compressed thus bottoming), and this only under moderate increasing brake.
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Old 07-27-2012, 08:54 PM   #704
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your gaiters are compressing, but are you clunking out on bottom? I am probably compressing the gaiters all the way, who knows but I am not feeling the thing hit any limits of any kind over 99% of what I'm hitting, and I'm hitting ti as hard as I dare.
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Old 07-27-2012, 08:54 PM   #705
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I am hoping I helped! A little?
Yes, and thank you
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