No stop USA - Page 7

lamotovita · 12-30-2011, 08:25 AM

First let me state, for the record.

I am not now, nor have I ever been, a proponent of no stop rules for Observed Trials competition in these United States of America.

I started riding Trials in the mid 90s. I learned to ride stopping with a planted foot, moving the bike around my foot, looking for a way out of the spot I've gotten myself into, and sometimes just resting to catch my breath. Thats how most, if not all, the riders in my club ride. I never really thought about it until recently. Now that I think about it, it seems lame. I'd like to see the rules modified to minimize stopping and sitting in a section while still allowing stop and hop riding techniques. Such rules would probably move me down a class (along with many of the riders in my club), which wouldn't matter to me as I wouldn't be in either the highest, or lowest, class either way.
I suppose the time limits used in the nationals are the best solution I've seen. I'm wondering how it could be adressed at local club events, where time limits in the sections are impractical.
And it seems to me that if I'm allowed to stop and move my bike sideways with my foot down, I shouldn't be penalized if I wipe the sweat out of my eyes with my hand.

AteamNM · 12-30-2011, 09:48 AM

This thread will self destruct in 10, 9, 8, 7...........seconds.

Lineaway has set a trials every year that I have rode in the NMTA, +15 years. Bob has schooled many people on riding no stop, hopty hop, nose wheelie through a turn or blast a 8 foot wall. In my not so humble opinion, Lineaway has contributed more to the observed trials world than 90% of the folks I know.

I don't like internet bullies, especially here on ADV. Opinions are like AH's, every one has one so ease up and please play well with others. Geez, I ride for fun, not even competitive really since it is man against the course. I think we do need to make minor changes and hate the guys who sit in a section for 3 minutes looking at the next obstacle. I remember back in the mid 80's when Billy (it was a three) Trainer from Ireland would hop and hop and hop, then finally after he is ready and done hopping - DAB.

Not a fan of the foot down for a long period of time but also do not want a novice rider speculating on did he stop or not. My suggestion is our cheap ass club buy stop watches and enforce a 1 minute and 30 second time limit, That will reduce a lot of stop and pause and keep the sections moving.

Now back to your regularly scheduled program.

Life is a trial.

brewtus · 12-30-2011, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AteamNM

My suggestion is our cheap ass club buy stop watches and enforce a 1 minute and 30 second time limit, That will reduce a lot of stop and pause and keep the sections moving.

If that happens, both MooMoo and I would start losing a bunch more events.........

Gordy · 12-30-2011, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AteamNM

My suggestion is our cheap ass club buy stop watches and enforce a 1 minute and 30 second time limit, That will reduce a lot of stop and pause and keep the sections moving.

Fore the upcoming year, I am going to find an obscure class with only a few riders in it (maybe Champ

) and frikkin drag my bike through every damn section for the podium.
Just imagine, Gordy getting a third place with 72 points in CHAMP!!!!

NMTrailboss · 12-30-2011, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gordy

Fore the upcoming year, I am going to find an obscure class with only a few riders in it (maybe Champ

) and frikkin drag my bike through every damn section for the podium.
Just imagine, Gordy getting a third place with 72 points in CHAMP!!!!

5 points x 24 sections = 120 points for you in Champ class!

Probably still 3rd place though!

Gordy · 12-30-2011, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NMTrailboss

5 points x 24 sections = 120 points for you in Champ class!

Probably still 3rd place though!

Yer right. I probably couldn't drag my bike through some of their sections on a three.

Something does has to be done about the guys who paddle, drag, slide and everything but ride a bike through sections though. I've seen guys with both feet out literally doing a smokey burnout on an 8" ledge for what seems like an eternity.

Trials riding, my ass!!
Hopefully, if we get the class structures right, riders will find themselves in the appropriate class and not have to resort to dragging a bike through a section to save two points.

brewtus · 12-30-2011, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gordy

Something does has to be done about the guys who paddle, drag, slide and everything but ride a bike through sections though. I've seen guys with both feet out literally doing a smokey burnout on an 8" ledge for what seems like an eternity.

I was cleaning off my rear tire.

Gordy · 12-30-2011, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brewtus

I was cleaning off my rear tire.

Just getting primed for the hard part of the section!

grizzzly · 12-30-2011, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lineaway

The current rules were made for the GIRLS.

lets see how this pans out next year

just saying

Doctor Zed · 12-31-2011, 06:27 AM

Well we got our first real snowfall yesterday here in Wisconsin.
It's been a slow start to winter, especially since I have my KTM all properly set-up for ice riding.

So with all the snow on the backyard trials course and everything being mega slippery,
I ended up practicing slow speed turns and such in the driveway.
It seems like some day are real good balance days and others not so much.
Well yesterday I did my first small front wheel hops. Not just one either.
I was completely stopped and tried hopping the front wheel. BAM it moved over a few inches!
I was able to do 5,6 maybe 7 little hops all in a row!
Even though I was stopped and "not riding the bike" anymore, it was super fun and felt really rewarding.

I hope that they don't change to no stop, this new skill will really give me an advantage in the Novice class next year.

Gordy · 12-31-2011, 06:31 AM

How about a if you put a foot down and stop, that's a three.

If you do it twice in a section you get a five.

It just doesn't seem right that you can put a foot down and take a lunch break but could very well get a lesser penalty than someone who is attempting something technical (while still riding the bike and keeping the event moving) and they are risking a two or three.

The score spread would go up and lots of bottlenecks would go away. People with ridiculously high scores would drop down to a class that they could "ride".
Skills would improve as everyone would soon learn to keep moving with their feet up. Guys who want to balance and hop could still do that.

10K · 12-31-2011, 07:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gordy

How about a if you put a foot down and stop, that's a three.

If you do it twice in a section you get a five.

+1

lineaway · 12-31-2011, 07:19 AM

[QUOTE=Gordy;17626983]

How about a if you put a foot down and stop, that's a three.

If you do it twice in a section you get a five.

Trouble is you are back to the scorers discretion. That has been the hardest part when messing with the rules. That is why I brought this subject up. Our current rules are great for a begginner, but becomes a penalty for some who is going for the clean. No stop is just an old time remedy.
Another idea is one set of rules for the lower and the old rules for upper. As in almost anything goes as long as your feet are on the pegs. I like that idea the best because of backing up before an obstacle, talk about taking away a safety feature. We used to be able to back up all day long, just had to stay feet up. But that takes us back to the time issue.
Once again that is why I would welcome no stop. You can practice stopping and balance all day. But come trials day the playing field would be more balanced than it is right now.

Gordy · 12-31-2011, 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lineaway

Trouble is you are back to the scorers discretion.

It could be, but I don't think so. We have a dick in our club that could be troublesome with this, but for the most part it is pretty damn evident when someone is truely stopped with a foot down.
They are looking around, waiting for advice, positioning the bike sideways on the pivot foot, etc.

There is already so much discretionary scoring on going on anyway. That's a whole 'nuther issue. We have non-riders and kids scoring upper classes making calls as to whether an elbow only touched or made a save.

Surely they could be instructed on what the intention of a foot down and stopped means.

BTW,
I'm going to work on my balance today. It couldn't hurt!

lineaway · 12-31-2011, 07:58 AM

In this country we probably have a better chance with the foot down for a three than going no stop. I have not heard anything changing with the FIM rules. That seems to be the driving force with the NATC.
May be we can convince our board to go back to backing up? I have not practiced that in fore ever, talk about a workout. So are you balancing while watching tv close enough to grab a brew. Now that`s talent.
I was at Bike week in Daytona in `82. Curt Comer was running a booth for cosmopolitan motors, back when they were the Montesa importers. Had a balancing contest , winner got a pair of SIDI boots. Almost 16 minutes on concrete,

just after drinking at the 200 all day. I loved them boots.

12-30-2011, 08:25 AM	#91
lamotovita Studly Adventurer Joined: Oct 2007 Location: WA USA Oddometer: 864	First let me state, for the record. I am not now, nor have I ever been, a proponent of no stop rules for Observed Trials competition in these United States of America. I started riding Trials in the mid 90s. I learned to ride stopping with a planted foot, moving the bike around my foot, looking for a way out of the spot I've gotten myself into, and sometimes just resting to catch my breath. Thats how most, if not all, the riders in my club ride. I never really thought about it until recently. Now that I think about it, it seems lame. I'd like to see the rules modified to minimize stopping and sitting in a section while still allowing stop and hop riding techniques. Such rules would probably move me down a class (along with many of the riders in my club), which wouldn't matter to me as I wouldn't be in either the highest, or lowest, class either way. I suppose the time limits used in the nationals are the best solution I've seen. I'm wondering how it could be adressed at local club events, where time limits in the sections are impractical. And it seems to me that if I'm allowed to stop and move my bike sideways with my foot down, I shouldn't be penalized if I wipe the sweat out of my eyes with my hand. __________________ It's not a big motorcycle, just a groovy little motor bike.

12-30-2011, 09:48 AM	#92
AteamNM Wonna Be ADVrider Joined: Mar 2010 Location: Sandia Mountains New Mexico Oddometer: 1,798	This thread will self destruct in 10, 9, 8, 7...........seconds. Lineaway has set a trials every year that I have rode in the NMTA, +15 years. Bob has schooled many people on riding no stop, hopty hop, nose wheelie through a turn or blast a 8 foot wall. In my not so humble opinion, Lineaway has contributed more to the observed trials world than 90% of the folks I know. I don't like internet bullies, especially here on ADV. Opinions are like AH's, every one has one so ease up and please play well with others. Geez, I ride for fun, not even competitive really since it is man against the course. I think we do need to make minor changes and hate the guys who sit in a section for 3 minutes looking at the next obstacle. I remember back in the mid 80's when Billy (it was a three) Trainer from Ireland would hop and hop and hop, then finally after he is ready and done hopping - DAB. Not a fan of the foot down for a long period of time but also do not want a novice rider speculating on did he stop or not. My suggestion is our cheap ass club buy stop watches and enforce a 1 minute and 30 second time limit, That will reduce a lot of stop and pause and keep the sections moving. Now back to your regularly scheduled program. Life is a trial. __________________ NMOHVA Member & NMTA Member The silence was absolute, the sense of peace profound, and it bled in to me from this beautiful land. (ROD CURRIE, Team Sibersky Extreme) Fly & Ride RR: http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=841561

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12-31-2011, 06:27 AM	#100
Doctor Zed Resident Joined: Mar 2009 Location: Lake Mills, Wi Oddometer: 857	Well we got our first real snowfall yesterday here in Wisconsin. It's been a slow start to winter, especially since I have my KTM all properly set-up for ice riding. So with all the snow on the backyard trials course and everything being mega slippery, I ended up practicing slow speed turns and such in the driveway. It seems like some day are real good balance days and others not so much. Well yesterday I did my first small front wheel hops. Not just one either. I was completely stopped and tried hopping the front wheel. BAM it moved over a few inches! I was able to do 5,6 maybe 7 little hops all in a row! Even though I was stopped and "not riding the bike" anymore, it was super fun and felt really rewarding. I hope that they don't change to no stop, this new skill will really give me an advantage in the Novice class next year.

12-31-2011, 06:31 AM	#101
Gordy Team Listo Joined: Dec 2001 Location: NM Oddometer: 18,298	How about a if you put a foot down and stop, that's a three. If you do it twice in a section you get a five. It just doesn't seem right that you can put a foot down and take a lunch break but could very well get a lesser penalty than someone who is attempting something technical (while still riding the bike and keeping the event moving) and they are risking a two or three. The score spread would go up and lots of bottlenecks would go away. People with ridiculously high scores would drop down to a class that they could "ride". Skills would improve as everyone would soon learn to keep moving with their feet up. Guys who want to balance and hop could still do that.

12-31-2011, 07:19 AM	#103
lineaway ^OP Studly Adventurer Joined: Oct 2011 Location: nm Oddometer: 770	[QUOTE=Gordy;17626983] How about a if you put a foot down and stop, that's a three. If you do it twice in a section you get a five. Trouble is you are back to the scorers discretion. That has been the hardest part when messing with the rules. That is why I brought this subject up. Our current rules are great for a begginner, but becomes a penalty for some who is going for the clean. No stop is just an old time remedy. Another idea is one set of rules for the lower and the old rules for upper. As in almost anything goes as long as your feet are on the pegs. I like that idea the best because of backing up before an obstacle, talk about taking away a safety feature. We used to be able to back up all day long, just had to stay feet up. But that takes us back to the time issue. Once again that is why I would welcome no stop. You can practice stopping and balance all day. But come trials day the playing field would be more balanced than it is right now.

12-31-2011, 07:58 AM	#105
lineaway ^OP Studly Adventurer Joined: Oct 2011 Location: nm Oddometer: 770	In this country we probably have a better chance with the foot down for a three than going no stop. I have not heard anything changing with the FIM rules. That seems to be the driving force with the NATC. May be we can convince our board to go back to backing up? I have not practiced that in fore ever, talk about a workout. So are you balancing while watching tv close enough to grab a brew. Now that`s talent. I was at Bike week in Daytona in `82. Curt Comer was running a booth for cosmopolitan motors, back when they were the Montesa importers. Had a balancing contest , winner got a pair of SIDI boots. Almost 16 minutes on concrete, just after drinking at the 200 all day. I loved them boots.