2012 KTM 500 EXC as a Lightweight Dual Sport

[ktm950se]

Originally Posted by harcus

It is built in to the speedo / odo

Good to know!

ktm950se

[harcus]

Here are a few updates on the project. Sorry for the slow input. Too much work...

6. Radiator brace -

After the first day of riding I noticed that crashing the bike caused the radiator to be swept back. My search of radiator guards on the market did not yield any that had support to prevent the deflection of the radiator rearward. They may be out there, I just didn't find them. So I built one...

Here is what it look like...









It is made of aluminum. It consists of 3 major parts: a cross brace & 2 fore / aft braces tying into the frame. This forms a horizontal triangle that resists deflection of either radiator by bracing it with the frame.

The cross brace attaches to the frame at the lower radiator mount boss on the LH side. The LH side brace attaches to the frame at the exhaust pipe support lug. The RH side brace attaches to a "add on" lug that is attached to the frame near the V brace.

The horizontal cross brace has 2 "ears" that pick up the OEM radiator M6 holes.

The whole brace weighs less that 2 lbs. I haven't had enough crashes yet to test the brace & declare victory but I am sure that will come.




8. Bar risers -

I needed about 1.3 inches (~35 mm) to lift the bars to a height that was comfortable for stand up riding. I had some 1 in alum plate scraps that needed a home. Not long back I had build similar length spacers for my 990 Adv & replaced the 10 mm bolts with longer items. As luck would have it, the old 990 bolts were perfect for this application. The cross hole provides air cooling...



I set the bars in the forward hole of the triple clamp.

[ktm950se]

Nice work on the radiator braces.
Any chance a larger fuel tank, one with 'wings', would offer protection from the radiators being pushed rearward?

ktm950se

[harcus]

4. Luggage rack system - Capability to carry about 40-50 lbs

I decided to develop a lightweight top rack with my standard pannier brackets. I had developed similar racks for many bikes as well as integrated subframe / luggage rack for the XR650R.

The reason for this approach was simple...

a. This approach would allow me to develop all the interfaces to connect to the bike
b. The standard pannier bracket would allow use of a standard soft bags, etc.
c. This would also allow evaluation of aluminum for this application.

The top rack has mount points for RotoPax brackets as well.

Here is the design thus far...



Here it is in testing in Reno during Thanksgiving. The softbag is loaded with about 20 lbs in this pic & only on one side to create a torsional load.



More testing to come.

[ktm950se]

My only concern, and it may be irrelevant if the racks are overbuilt, is that making them out of aluminum might prevent you from being able to readily find a repair station in remote regions of the US and/or 3rd-world countries in the event they became damaged. Steel welding, and broken racks from adventure riding, are universal. 'Just reading a few ride reports easily confirms this.
But finding someone to weld alloys in remote regions, well that's a potential problem.

'Not knocking the desire to keep things light, only concerned about the possible problems having a irreparable rack out in the field could cause...

ktm950se

[Utah Bones]

KTM.....another one?

[dmaxmike]

have a friend with a 500 xc-w converted, will be watching closely for him.

[harcus]

Originally Posted by ktm950se

My only concern, and it may be irrelevant if the racks are overbuilt, is that making them out of aluminum might prevent you from being able to readily find a repair station in remote regions of the US and/or 3rd-world countries in the event they became damaged. Steel welding, and broken racks from adventure riding, are universal. 'Just reading a few ride reports easily confirms this.
But finding someone to weld alloys in remote regions, well that's a potential problem.

'Not knocking the desire to keep things light, only concerned about the possible problems having a irreparable rack out in the field could cause...

ktm950se

Yup, that's a valid concern. I normally use steel. Long term plan is composite. I consider this to be an "interim" rack.

[harcus]

Originally Posted by ktm950se

Nice work on the radiator braces.
Any chance a larger fuel tank, one with 'wings', would offer protection from the radiators being pushed rearward?

ktm950se

Maybe. I plan to acquire the 13 L KTM tank soon. We shall see.

[straightrod]

Originally Posted by ktm950se

My only concern, and it may be irrelevant if the racks are overbuilt, is that making them out of aluminum might prevent you from being able to readily find a repair station in remote regions of the US and/or 3rd-world countries in the event they became damaged. Steel welding, and broken racks from adventure riding, are universal. 'Just reading a few ride reports easily confirms this.
But finding someone to weld alloys in remote regions, well that's a potential problem.

'Not knocking the desire to keep things light, only concerned about the possible problems having a irreparable rack out in the field could cause...

ktm950se

<http://www.aluminumrepair.com/more_info.asp> I guess he could some of these and at 700 degrees could make a repair. I have not tried the product, but it seems interesting and pricey.

[SteveO]

[team ftb]

Harcus - Great thread, thanks a bunch for getting it started and your efforts so far.

I've been adventure riding a KTM 525 through Southeast Asia for a few years now and looking at the 500 as a replacement if it can withstand the vigors. So I'm subscribed to your thread with baited breath.

One thing I noticed with luggage brackets is they always would end up breaking and usually not in convenient locations. I ended up fabbing these brackets up for the 525.




All the times I broke prior brackets it was where the top left portion of the bracket (in the pic) connected to the chassis. I made some minimal brackets to see if I could reduce the leverage that crashes put on the brackets. Once I fabbed these things up I never cracked or broke a bracket again. The idea is that the bracket only keeps the saddlebag out of the wheel and not used for load carrying. Also when crashed the weight of the bike laying on its side puts a lot of load and stress on brackets causing failures. These small brackets I believe, when crashed had very little leverage placed on them in comparison to standard brackets as they were flush up against the sidepanels, muffler and airbox.



I used the brackets with DirtBagz and sadly this bike is on its side a lot, luckily 3 years and no bracket issues. You may be looking for something completely different for all I know but thought I'd throw it out there for you to peruse.

Best of luck with the 500 and curious with what you and others come up with on this bike.

[harcus]

Originally Posted by team ftb

Harcus - Great thread, thanks a bunch for getting it started and your efforts so far.

I've been adventure riding a KTM 525 through Southeast Asia for a few years now and looking at the 500 as a replacement if it can withstand the vigors. So I'm subscribed to your thread with baited breath.

One thing I noticed with luggage brackets is they always would end up breaking and usually not in convenient locations. I ended up fabbing these brackets up for the 525.




All the times I broke prior brackets it was where the top left portion of the bracket (in the pic) connected to the chassis. I made some minimal brackets to see if I could reduce the leverage that crashes put on the brackets. Once I fabbed these things up I never cracked or broke a bracket again. The idea is that the bracket only keeps the saddlebag out of the wheel and not used for load carrying. Also when crashed the weight of the bike laying on its side puts a lot of load and stress on brackets causing failures. These small brackets I believe, when crashed had very little leverage placed on them in comparison to standard brackets as they were flush up against the sidepanels, muffler and airbox.



I used the brackets with DirtBagz and sadly this bike is on its side a lot, luckily 3 years and no bracket issues. You may be looking for something completely different for all I know but thought I'd throw it out there for you to peruse.

Best of luck with the 500 and curious with what you and others come up with on this bike.

FTB

This is good feedback. That looks to be an "adverse environment".

About your rack mod... It appears that you made your mini pannier supports our of flat stock...maybe 25 mm x 3 mm ? Also look like you attached to the muffler can bolt on the RH side. What on the LH? Are the other subframe attach points stock or did you add your own?

Your pannier bracket mod eliminated the lower end of the DBz bracket. That reduces the bending moment on the bracket thus ruducing failures. I see n repair quite a few DBz brackets with cracks at the end points . So this makes sense. This does allow the bag to be unsupported at the lower end but apparently this is not an issue.

I see you have a large tank, a steering damper, a bash plate, handguards (probend?). More?

Tell us more about your setup & how you use the bike. Many people wonder how well a street legal race bike will stand up in everyday use. Like...
1. How has the bike done reliability wise?
2. What maintenance do you do, when?
3. How much load do you carry in the bags?
4. How many km / week?
5. Any problems with the subframe?
6. What is your biggest problem w/ this bike in this environment?
7. Year of bike n kms?
8. What is on your wish list for the replacement bike?

Thanks for the input! Tell us more!

[team ftb]

Answers to your questions in contrasting font Harcus.

Originally Posted by harcus

FTB

This is good feedback. That looks to be an "adverse environment".

About your rack mod... It appears that you made your mini pannier supports our of flat stock...maybe 25 mm x 3 mm ? Yes basic flat stock. I'm horrible when it comes to fabbing up stuff so its nothing pretty, just simple and basic.

Also look like you attached to the muffler can bolt on the RH side. Yes What on the LH? Here is a pic of the left side. As I said simple, but its been working now for multiple years without issues.




Are the other subframe attach points stock or did you add your own? All atachment points are stock mounts (none added by me) used for the rear subframe and muffler mounts.

Your pannier bracket mod eliminated the lower end of the DBz bracket. That reduces the bending moment on the bracket thus ruducing failures. I see n repair quite a few DBz brackets with cracks at the end points . So this makes sense. This does allow the bag to be unsupported at the lower end but apparently this is not an issue.

I've run brackets like this on a KLX250 and the KTM, both unsupported by the traditional lower end used on the majority of brackets I've seen designed. Have had no issues so far. Realistically very little ofd the DB's is unsupported that could flop into the rear wheel.



Obviously if you had very tall soft saddlebags it would be potentially an issue.

Brackets held up fine during numerous product testing moments.



I see you have a large tank, a steering damper, a bash plate, handguards (probend?). More? Yes, quite a bit more but the basics needed for ADV type riding are: HT oil cooler, Stainless steel intake valves, Fan kit, and an upgraded stator to run the fan reliably.

This is a 500 thread not a 525 so i don't really won't to pollute this thread with 525 beta. I will answer in brief but encourage people that are interested in the 525 model for DS and adventure riding to check out this thread: http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=201026

Tell us more about your setup & how you use the bike. Many people wonder how well a street legal race bike will stand up in everyday use. I use the bike for multiday/multiweek offroad and dualsport riding throughout Southeast Asia. When not on trail rides I also run it with a Supermotard set-up on tracks and multi day canyon rides. When I started running the 525 there was not a hard core following of the 525 like it has today. Did some research and it seemed once I addressed the weaknesses of soft intake valves and additonal oil capacity it might be able to be a lighter more agile XR650. Luckily it turned out great for me and three years later running a race bike as my adventure bike has turned out superbly.

Like...
1. How has the bike done reliability wise? Once the stainless intake valves were installed, reliable as an anvil
2. What maintenance do you do, when? I look for oil changes once I hit 1000 miles, and valves hardly ever.
3. How much load do you carry in the bags? I'm guessing about 30 pounds, enough for month long trips. I've switched over to the GL bag for the last couple years and am enjoying it. As a matter of fact I used those same brackets to strap the first generation GL bag to the 525 for easier removal and the brackets are still going strong, with no issues.



4. How many km / week? Its not my daily driver, only used for DS rides. Has more than 545 hours now but I rebuilt the motor at 475 hours though it could have gone longer.
5. Any problems with the subframe? None.
6. What is your biggest problem w/ this bike in this environment? Weight. I'm only 135 poiunds so would like it to lose 30 pounds. Dreaming, but thats my biggest issue is wrestling it through singletrack and unsticking it from mudholes. I ride alone a lot and its a pig to get back on the trail or out of mudholes on my own. Miles ahead of an KTM 690 or BMW 650 I know but thats seriously my biggest issue. Oh I would also like more oil capacity (than even the HT oil cooler provides) while I'm dreaming. Shifting quality degrades once past 1000-1200 miles.

7. Year of bike n kms? 2005 KTM 525EXC, I monitor hours not mileage but I beleive about 26-28k KM

8. What is on your wish list for the replacement bike? As noted lower weight ideally. While dreaming how about a 36 inch seat hieght for us midgets. I also prefer a carb for where I ride as I've had FI go tits up on two KLX250's that I ride with so am curious to see how the 500's FI pans out in the real world.

I'm guessing the 500 will need much the same mods I've done to my 525 to make it what I want. The 530 did not tempt me at all to get rid of the 525 so I'm curious how the 500 will fare under a light of scrutiny and hopefully peoples hard riding.

Thanks for the input! Tell us more!

Fantastic questions Harcus. In looking at the 500 it looks like it will have to be transformed very similiar to my 525 to make it what suits my style of riding. The lightweight steering will be appreciated in the singletrack and the weight drop is nice (though a far cry from the 30 pounds that I'd love) though realistically other than a lighter handling machine it will not be a revolutionary change from the 525. They're still 260 pound big bore singles with much the same suspension components. I've been throwing my GL bag on my Yamaha YZF 250 (that has a WR250 gearbox) for a real change in multiday riding enjoyment. the YZF is about 30 pounds lighter than the KTM and loads more entertaining to ride in the tight stuff. I'd really love to ride lightweight bikes but sadly not much progress has been made over the last 20 years in terms of weight of the bikes. I'm returning to the states to pick up a KTM 2 stroke to bring back over and will try multiday rides on that and see how it fares. This is where packing light for multiday rides really pays dividends as the bike feel is so much more enhanced the more weight you can shed.

[Ridetosea]

I often say there is nothing rarer than an original thought. I knew if I looked long enough I would find someone on the net thinking as I am. I want a truly light weight adventure touring bike. I have narrowed my search down to the 500 EXC. I was thinking about putting soft bags on it and I found this thread. I read the 500 exc? Thread and Harcus and a few others seems to have a lot of great ideas and I am happy to think we are like minded. Thanks for your input. I do have a few questions.
My KTM dealer has two 500 EXC's on the floor. Is the price negotiable or does everyone pay MSRP? What is a good deal? What should I ask for?
Second, does anyone make an integrated, hand gaurd, front turn signal mirror or is this my invention? Back of hand guard is LED turn signal like modern sports bikes have on the back sides of the mirrors. Make the inside of the hand guards out of reflective convex plastic to act as a mirror. My F 150 has a convex plastic mirror on the bottom portion of the side mirrors that work well. Not concerned about how effective the mirror is just trying to check the box for two mirrors for the police man. I am a minimalist at heart. This would clean up the DS parts hanging off my “dirt bike”. I think one part doing three things is better and saves weight. IMHO Nothing looks worse than turn signals and mirrors hanging off any bike.