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Old 03-22-2012, 06:16 AM   #16
HouseOfDexter
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Originally Posted by KingOfFleece View Post
Does not matter whose waterproof boot/glove you buy, any brand. Give 'em the bucket test prior to using them. We make waterproof stuff for a living. All lined products are subject to production quality. Low end stuff most of the time will have a lower QC factor than high end. But check 'em ALL first thing.

Everybody has a story about their XYZ gear was @@@@@@. Check it with the bucket first.
The bucket test works great for brand new stuff...but doesn't tell you how well it will wear...

After 3500+ miles...the Hurricanes are leaking around the toe in heavy down pours...In 30 min. my feet are soaked...Going to see how the warranty holds up...
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Old 03-22-2012, 10:31 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by gfloyd2002 View Post
I looked at those boots after good experience with the BiLT Trackstar boots ($70). I've used Trackstars for summer commuting, and have been happy. Had them for a year so far, and they've held up perfectly. They don't compare to more expensive boots I own in terms of track protection, but they are more than adequate commuters and a very good value for the dollar. 5 year warranty should ease concerns somewhat.
I'm about to test that warranty the next time I go to Cyclegear. I'm completely unsatisfied with my Trackstars. The plastic eats into the back of the boot and tears it up near the little reflector after a while.

Even if I just get store credit that'd be okay since they still carry Fox Bomber gloves.
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Old 03-22-2012, 11:02 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by veriest1 View Post
I'm about to test that warranty the next time I go to Cyclegear. I'm completely unsatisfied with my Trackstars. The plastic eats into the back of the boot and tears it up near the little reflector after a while.
This goes to KingofFleece's point about variable quality on lower-end items. Mine have been great, but clearly some concerns in others. A similar issue, which has been resolved, came up with the Tourmaster Solution 2.0 boots I recommend - an early factory run had waterproofing issues. Tourmaster addressed the issue and is doing better QC now with good results, so I feel good recommending them -- they've been the best boots I've owned overall, including much more expensive ones. That said, good point about the need fo extra vigilence on quality of construction for lower cost items. You can find great value out there, but you need to work harder.
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Old 03-22-2012, 11:37 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by gfloyd2002 View Post
IMore generally on CycleGear branded stuff, it isn't like CycleGear is designing its own stuff. They simply go to the same few factories in Pakistan that make 80% of the gear out there, buy the same models you'd get with other brands, then cut out the middle man by branding it themselves. The basic quality varies, but as a general rule it is adequate with BiLT stuff and good with Sedici stuff. You can compare some of the Sedici stuff side by side with good quality Cortech or Teknic gear, for example, and find identical gear. Sedici comes with a lifetime warranty. This sort of approach by CycleGear makes sense to me.
es.
They certainly look similar don't they... but check the leather thikness. Sedici feels real nice but the leather is as thick as a piece of tissue paper on some of those gloves. The 'carbon fiber' knuckles are plastic welded on rather than held in place with proper leather and stitching. It looks like their spec is the same as those for the bike show carboard box bargain bin stuff. I bought a pair of leather sedici vented gloves because I was in a pinch and there was nothing else at the store at the time. They have held up so far and they aren't bad for $30 but I really don't want to test them out. I keep them as my spare summer set in the bottom of the bags.

I'm all for cheaper gear, less logos, etc... but it's got to come with protection and I'm jut not seeing it. Heck if Sedici is the upscale line of Bilt, WTF is Bilt?
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Old 03-22-2012, 04:23 PM   #20
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We have a local Cycle Gear store, and I see a lot of Bilt stuff around. I see quite a few of the MSF students show up with Bilt stuff. A pro side argument is "Hey, it gets the folks started on the path to WEARING gear on the bike". When I talk to the folks, most of them seem to be OK with the stuff, no complaints. No personal experience with Bilt, though.
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Old 03-22-2012, 06:22 PM   #21
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I don't know what gloves you got TRC, but sounds like Sedici has a bad set of gloves out there. The Sedici jackets I've looked at look solid. Not REV'IT or Motoport solid, but definitely a good mid-range option. And the Sedici Laguna boots really are identical to Teknic Chicane boots. The only gloves I've actually tried on from Sedici are the Corsa ones and they seemed protective and completely wearable to me, though they were like $70 and not $30.

At any rate, the main message seems to be buyer beware. You can get stuff at good value, but you've got to check quality carefully item by item. I'd certainly continue to consider Sedici stuff. But I wonder whether this discussion may be part of why brands putting out essentially the same gear might be more successful. People have faith in the name and logo. There is some pretty low quality A*s stuff out there on the low end that isn't that protective, and also some outstanding stuff. But people don't write off the brand as cheapo if one product isn't good or if there is a defect in another. I'm not sure the Sedici stuff gets the same benefit of the doubt. Perhaps rightly, I don't know. Just commenting on the difficulties of going without a name brand.

For me, the thrill of the chase after great value is fun. I keep hoping for that Tourmaster Solution 2 success of super solid gear for a great price.
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Old 03-22-2012, 08:07 PM   #22
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I have Bilt Modular Helmet, Jacket and pants - I passed on gloves and boots. In my couple of dirt road get off's they all did well.
I would say take a good look before you buy Bilt but not all of Bilt is junk. And for those of us on a budget it can be a good deal, provided you examine the product your interested in first
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Old 03-22-2012, 11:44 PM   #23
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With a lifetime warranty, give em a try. I have found that I get to wanting new boots after a few years even if they are not technically worn out so at 70$,,,,,, you can afford to wear a heck of alot of them out as compared to a set of 300-400$ Sidis {and I wear On Roads} or Aerostitch Combats.

As an example, I like Cortech Scarabs for winter gloves. They offer good water resistance and they are pretty warm considering their lack of bulk as compared to many other gloves on the market. The hard armor is a bonus and they fit me well.

I found a set of gloves at Cycle Gear that look suspiciously like the Scarabs-

So I bought a set for my wife. If I remember right I paid roughly 30$ back a summer or two ago. Yes, the leather is thinner than on the Scarabs but they seem to have slightly more insulation and they are as warm and water proof as the Scarabs at half to nearly a third the price and remember, they have a lifetime warranty. I honestly think they are probably made at the same factory. They went up in price for winter and I just saw where they are on sale for 40$ and honestly, I'm going to buy a second pair for me for when my Scarabs wear out.

So yea,,,, Bilt and the other house brand my not be as "nice" as some super duper designer "makes your feel ohhhh so superior " brand of boot, glove, helmet or whatever but they just might work perfectly. My FT leather jacket is now going on nearly 10yrs old, has been down a couple of times,,,, has more miles than most riders will ever do in ntheir lifetime and it broken in and fits perfect much to the chagrin of all the people that po-pooed my choice as being a cheap choice where you get what you paid for.
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Old 03-23-2012, 06:12 AM   #24
HouseOfDexter
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Originally Posted by Jud View Post
With a lifetime warranty, give em a try. I have found that I get to wanting new boots after a few years even if they are not technically worn out so at 70$,,,,,, you can afford to wear a heck of alot of them out as compared to a set of 300-400$ Sidis {and I wear On Roads} or Aerostitch Combats.

As an example, I like Cortech Scarabs for winter gloves. They offer good water resistance and they are pretty warm considering their lack of bulk as compared to many other gloves on the market. The hard armor is a bonus and they fit me well.

I found a set of gloves at Cycle Gear that look suspiciously like the Scarabs-

So I bought a set for my wife. If I remember right I paid roughly 30$ back a summer or two ago. Yes, the leather is thinner than on the Scarabs but they seem to have slightly more insulation and they are as warm and water proof as the Scarabs at half to nearly a third the price and remember, they have a lifetime warranty. I honestly think they are probably made at the same factory. They went up in price for winter and I just saw where they are on sale for 40$ and honestly, I'm going to buy a second pair for me for when my Scarabs wear out.

So yea,,,, Bilt and the other house brand my not be as "nice" as some super duper designer "makes your feel ohhhh so superior " brand of boot, glove, helmet or whatever but they just might work perfectly. My FT leather jacket is now going on nearly 10yrs old, has been down a couple of times,,,, has more miles than most riders will ever do in ntheir lifetime and it broken in and fits perfect much to the chagrin of all the people that po-pooed my choice as being a cheap choice where you get what you paid for.
Heh...they have had a couple different names... matter of fact cyclegear still has the Motoboss Talons for sale online http://www.cyclegear.com/eng/product...ves/web1004804

They look like this Bilt Demon's
http://www.cyclegear.com/eng/product...ves/web1008621

The only complaint I have with these gloves is if you hands get clammy or wet...it's a PITA to get your hands in the liner...as your hands will stick to the liner and make getting the pinky in very difficult. They work great from about 40F to 80F...and do a great job in the rain...
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Old 03-24-2012, 03:25 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by HouseOfDexter View Post
Heh...they have had a couple different names... matter of fact cyclegear still has the Motoboss Talons for sale online http://www.cyclegear.com/eng/product...ves/web1004804

They look like this Bilt Demon's
http://www.cyclegear.com/eng/product...ves/web1008621

The only complaint I have with these gloves is if you hands get clammy or wet...it's a PITA to get your hands in the liner...as your hands will stick to the liner and make getting the pinky in very difficult. They work great from about 40F to 80F...and do a great job in the rain...
That temp range is roughly my experience also. Like I said, I really think the Cortech Scarabs are slightly better built and use better materials but is it 2-3 times the price better than the Cycle Gear cheapies? I'm thinking not.
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Old 03-24-2012, 03:48 AM   #26
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Agreed. Bucket test does not replace real world useage. What it will do is head off any suprise that may be instore at the first rain. My point was that the test will give you a snapshot of the initial build quality.

As a former professional SCUBA instructor I've learned that check/double check prior to use is always a good thing. More so with mixed gases!
YMMV.

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Old 03-24-2012, 03:53 AM   #27
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The comment on the Cortech vs. BiLT gloves being nearly identical but the BiLT gloves showing lower quality is interesting. The Cortech Latigo and Sedici Laguna boots (which I own) are also nearly identical. Yet, reviews of the Sedici boots complain about the thin sole creating problems for riders -- I've had no such problems with the Cortech boots. I wonder whether the Pakistani factories that are selling to each country are compensating for lower price on the CycleGear stuff by using lower quality materials, or if CycleGear lacks to the quality control that someone like Tourmaster/Cortech sourcing from the same location exercises. Or perhaps there is a consumer bias against the non-name brand and the products really are identical. An interesting question.
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Old 03-24-2012, 11:01 AM   #28
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The comment on the Cortech vs. BiLT gloves being nearly identical but the BiLT gloves showing lower quality is interesting. The Cortech Latigo and Sedici Laguna boots (which I own) are also nearly identical. Yet, reviews of the Sedici boots complain about the thin sole creating problems for riders -- I've had no such problems with the Cortech boots. I wonder whether the Pakistani factories that are selling to each country are compensating for lower price on the CycleGear stuff by using lower quality materials, or if CycleGear lacks to the quality control that someone like Tourmaster/Cortech sourcing from the same location exercises. Or perhaps there is a consumer bias against the non-name brand and the products really are identical. An interesting question.

I think you are right on "all the above". I think that when you sell a product that's half of what a competitor's product cost, you have to make concessions. I can understand the overhead for labor and capital expenses may well be alot lower in some countries vs other countries {you only have to look at our own continent for that example} but often, quality has to suffer.In this case it appears to me that the only thing substantially different between the Cortechs and the Bilts is the thickness/quality of the leather. I have not taken a serious spill wearing either but I'm willing to bet that the Cortechs could take multiple falls with only cosmetic damage {barring any seam failures}. Just looking at the Bilts, I would think they look to be a "one time and they are done" type of thing which for the money,,,,,,, might well be good enough for many including me. Like I said, I used to think quality and longevity were the end all in my opinion of something's worth but the older I get the wiser {maybe pragmatic} I become and I just discovered that somethings it really is better to replace ever few years as they just get, well,,,,,, nasty from use.

I also think that many people default to "You get what you pay for" and don't take the time to actually weigh the pro's and cons. They justify spending much more than a comparable product by immediately calling it a POS. That's better than admitting that they didn't have the common sense to compare, think and buy based on the pro's and cons. You see that with all consumer goods ranging from apparel, to gear, to bikes and car to homes. But hey, if it makes someone feel good to pay 2 times what another product costs and they are actually comparable {example- Vette vs Porsche in pure performance} then more power to em. I just get my feathers ruffled when many start the BS about something being a POS because it isn't as nice or "it doesn't have soul" or better yet,,,, "it doesn't move me.
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Old 03-24-2012, 11:09 AM   #29
RidingDonkeys
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I've got the aforementioned gloves, and they are great. I also owe my life and left leg to a Bilt Storm winter suit after a run-in with a guard rail, in which my upper torsoe slid across over a sharp metal corner.

I have a set of Bilt overboots that suck.

Point is, each item varies, regardless of brand.


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Old 03-24-2012, 07:27 PM   #30
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BIlt sucks, but they are cool about it!

I recently bought and even more recently returned a Bilt Jacket/Pant set. The quality just was nonexistent but they knew it and have to be the best customer service I have dealt with. I say that if its what you are comfortable spending that its good until you can afford something else!
Big thing is that the CS was awesome!
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