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Old 03-20-2013, 09:31 PM   #1696
ZBone
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I have no opinion in the 650/800 dilemma, but opting for a heavier bike and only going for a 700 seems like a waste to me. Either buy a good all arounder and get the 650 or spend the extra cash and get a proper twin. Otherwise, you're buying a bike with a toned down suspension, engine, and cast wheels for a couple thousand less. If you think you're going to regret buying a 650 instead of the 700, I guarantee you'll regret buying the 'soft' version of the 800 instead of the real deal. Just my 2 cents.

One last thing, think about what you really want out of your bike. Others have all ready said this and it's absolutely on point. I went in to my dealer looking at an 800 and decided for the trails I wanted to ride comfortably it was going to be too much bike. Only you know what is right for you and your personal application. Shit, maybe it's even the 700, althought it seems like a lame middle ground to me.
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Old 03-20-2013, 09:42 PM   #1697
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Originally Posted by davesupreme View Post
progressives are gonna dive worse, you're softer at the top of the stroke. to take the dive out w/progressives, you're gonna have to have wicked stiff springs, pretty much defeating the purpose.... and you gotta pretty much take the forks off/apart to do this, and change the oil while you're at it...
Davesupreme,

I agree that progressive is softer at first and firmer when it gets more compression. But softer in relation to itself in a compressed state, not in relation to the stock linear spring. From what I've been reading, the soft part of the progressive is about the same as the linear spring and it gets firmer from there.

Anybody with experience with this, please chime in.

Thank you.
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Old 03-21-2013, 03:19 AM   #1698
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Originally Posted by windowto View Post
Davesupreme,

I agree that progressive is softer at first and firmer when it gets more compression. But softer in relation to itself in a compressed state, not in relation to the stock linear spring. From what I've been reading, the soft part of the progressive is about the same as the linear spring and it gets firmer from there.

Anybody with experience with this, please chime in.

Thank you.
No ride experience yet on my bike, but Gregg at Max said it is the must do upgrade to this bike. It is stiffer. I also asked Progressive and they said the entire spring is stiffer. I had progressive Eibach's in both my XR400 and 600 and they were stiffer everywhere. I rode a DR650.... Stiffer. I think my springs cost $150. Cheap, so just give it a shot. Get enough spacer material to experiment with preload. Start with 1/4" sticking up above the top of the fork tubes and take it for a ride. So easy to open up the forks and try different length spacers. Just be careful starting the threads of the top cap on to the forks. It's soft aluminum and while you're pressing down on the cap to start the threads you have to make sure you're getting that cap level into the forks or you will cross thread and kaput, you're done
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Old 03-21-2013, 03:22 AM   #1699
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Originally Posted by ZBone View Post
I have no opinion in the 650/800 dilemma, but opting for a heavier bike and only going for a 700 seems like a waste to me. Either buy a good all arounder and get the 650 or spend the extra cash and get a proper twin. Otherwise, you're buying a bike with a toned down suspension, engine, and cast wheels for a couple thousand less. If you think you're going to regret buying a 650 instead of the 700, I guarantee you'll regret buying the 'soft' version of the 800 instead of the real deal. Just my 2 cents.

One last thing, think about what you really want out of your bike. Others have all ready said this and it's absolutely on point. I went in to my dealer looking at an 800 and decided for the trails I wanted to ride comfortably it was going to be too much bike. Only you know what is right for you and your personal application. Shit, maybe it's even the 700, althought it seems like a lame middle ground to me.
Yup. 700 and the standard G650 are not good options for much more than city commuting imop. And if I had to live in a city I'd have a 650. Cheaper still, more agile and plenty of green light "go" power. I'd ride that bastard like I stole it
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Old 03-21-2013, 05:07 AM   #1700
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I've read all the responses...and agree with everything said. The only thing I would add is that you really need a minimum of 3 motorcycles, which After many years and marital discussions, I just achieved. A trail/motocross bike, a street bike, and a in between bike. The in between bike for me is the Sertao. This will be my dirt road/forest service road bike. I believe that is the niche the Sertao fits best. If you're a one bike guy at the moment, you have to figure out what you want this bike to do. You can't have it all. Actually you can, you just need to acquire more bikes that fit your riding profile. Good Luck.
+1...truth is a Sertao and a 90/10 bike will cover just about everything too.


Still just lurking on this thread, but as you can see from my sig line, I've owned a few different bikes and was increasing the displacement over time. And the bike I miss the most? My do-it-all, KLR 650. Not going to bother buying one of those and modding it again (though that was fun), so the Sertao keeps coming out on top as the best starting point The higher displacement bikes lost their appeal for me pretty quickly.....too fast and too powerful, fun, but found myself doing things that were kinda stupid with all the power, and the extra weight and potential bike damage prevented me from exploring more offroad. If I was headed to Alaska, sure, I'd want a big twin or triple. But for now, the smaller bikes are just more fun (comfortable does not usually equal fun, something less adventurous about it) and probably a little safer all-in-all, and the Sertao still can do the long trips too, you just might limit you high speed slabbing, which is kind of the whole point of adv riding, right? This is probably heresy here, but the Sertao is small enough to easily load in the bed of a pickup too if you want to get to the good riding....done a few times when my wife refuses to ride a few hours on the freeway.
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Old 03-21-2013, 05:21 AM   #1701
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Originally Posted by kdennan View Post
No ride experience yet on my bike, but Gregg at Max said it is the must do upgrade to this bike. It is stiffer. I also asked Progressive and they said the entire spring is stiffer. I had progressive Eibach's in both my XR400 and 600 and they were stiffer everywhere. I rode a DR650.... Stiffer. I think my springs cost $150. Cheap, so just give it a shot. Get enough spacer material to experiment with preload. Start with 1/4" sticking up above the top of the fork tubes and take it for a ride. So easy to open up the forks and try different length spacers. Just be careful starting the threads of the top cap on to the forks. It's soft aluminum and while you're pressing down on the cap to start the threads you have to make sure you're getting that cap level into the forks or you will cross thread and kaput, you're done
dooders.... 'yer acting like 'just get a progressive spring man, and it's all good'... there's this thing called 'spring rate'... progressive is just an adjective... and they wind progressives in different manners, so they act different... if you get a progressive that's stiff enough to stop dive, it's gonna be really stiff after that... you gotta rolll your own on progressives, there's no weight tables .... give it a try, see what happens, ain't nobody on the computer gonna do it for you, all this is just blah, blah....
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Old 03-21-2013, 05:39 AM   #1702
kdennan
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Originally Posted by davesupreme View Post
dooders.... 'yer acting like 'just get a progressive spring man, and it's all good'... there's this thing called 'spring rate'... progressive is just an adjective... and they wind progressives in different manners, so they act different... if you get a progressive that's stiff enough to stop dive, it's gonna be really stiff after that... you gotta rolll your own on progressives, there's no weight tables .... give it a try, see what happens, ain't nobody on the computer gonna do it for you, all this is just blah, blah....
Yeah, No high expectations. Even if it turns out that the initial travel is as soft as stock I'm perfectly fine with that and I probably should have said that from the beginning. I just want better bottoming resistance, especially off road.
Thanks bro
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Old 03-21-2013, 05:58 AM   #1703
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Originally Posted by Gundy View Post
+1...truth is a Sertao and a 90/10 bike will cover just about everything too.


Still just lurking on this thread, but as you can see from my sig line, I've owned a few different bikes and was increasing the displacement over time. And the bike I miss the most? My do-it-all, KLR 650. Not going to bother buying one of those and modding it again (though that was fun), so the Sertao keeps coming out on top as the best starting point The higher displacement bikes lost their appeal for me pretty quickly.....too fast and too powerful, fun, but found myself doing things that were kinda stupid with all the power, and the extra weight and potential bike damage prevented me from exploring more offroad. If I was headed to Alaska, sure, I'd want a big twin or triple. But for now, the smaller bikes are just more fun (comfortable does not usually equal fun, something less adventurous about it) and probably a little safer all-in-all, and the Sertao still can do the long trips too, you just might limit you high speed slabbing, which is kind of the whole point of adv riding, right? This is probably heresy here, but the Sertao is small enough to easily load in the bed of a pickup too if you want to get to the good riding....done a few times when my wife refuses to ride a few hours on the freeway.
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Old 03-21-2013, 06:35 AM   #1704
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You need a bike bad!
You're tellin me bud!
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Old 03-21-2013, 08:03 AM   #1705
matloik
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Originally Posted by Gundy View Post
... as you can see from my sig line, I've owned a few different bikes ... And the bike I miss the most? My do-it-all, KLR 650. Not going to bother buying one of those and modding it again (though that was fun), so the Sertao keeps coming out on top as the best ...
You just answered your own question. Sounds like the Sertao is right for you. If you'd have said you missed your Tiger 955, then perhaps the F800GS should be your next bike. Consider this also: These BMW 650s seem to hold good value, and even if you really, really like the Sertao, you'll be ready to move onto something new in 3 yrs (or less) anyway.
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Old 03-21-2013, 08:54 AM   #1706
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Yeah, No high expectations. Even if it turns out that the initial travel is as soft as stock I'm perfectly fine with that and I probably should have said that from the beginning. I just want better bottoming resistance, especially off road.
Thanks bro
I HOPE it is as soft as stock on initial travel. This should be good for your regular road bumps and pot holes. We got plenty of them in NJ. It is further down that it should be firmer and hopefully will lessen that deep dive on hard braking.

On another note: you said to try different spacers. Where do you get them? Do they come with the springs? Are we talking the kind of pre-load you can overcome with your hands?

Thank you
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Old 03-21-2013, 09:34 AM   #1707
alskee750
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Racetech

Why not go with RaceTech HP springs to suit your riding/weight? Throw some emulators and be done with it? Just my 2cents. If I dont go the YZF conversion I will go w/ RaceTech.
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Old 03-21-2013, 09:50 AM   #1708
windowto
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Why not go with RaceTech HP springs to suit your riding/weight? Throw some emulators and be done with it? Just my 2cents. If I dont go the YZF conversion I will go w/ RaceTech.
Thank you for pointing out this site! Very interesting.

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Old 03-21-2013, 01:28 PM   #1709
kdennan
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Originally Posted by windowto View Post
I HOPE it is as soft as stock on initial travel. This should be good for your regular road bumps and pot holes. We got plenty of them in NJ. It is further down that it should be firmer and hopefully will lessen that deep dive on hard braking.

On another note: you said to try different spacers. Where do you get them? Do they come with the springs? Are we talking the kind of pre-load you can overcome with your hands?

Thank you
I just picked up a foot of shedge 40 PVC from the hardware store and a couple washers to put between the spacer and the spring. I'm going to go with a 1/4" of spacer sticking up above the top of the tubes. I talked with Gregg at Max and he said that'll be money.
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Old 03-21-2013, 03:29 PM   #1710
Trane Francks
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Originally Posted by matloik View Post
you'll be ready to move onto something new in 3 yrs (or less) anyway.
Or not. Some of us are perfectly happy with smaller displacements. I'm firmly in the "slow bike fast" category of rider. "Fast bike slow" seems to be such a waste. YMMV an' all that.
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