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Old 01-15-2012, 03:26 AM   #46
MIXR OP
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Update 15 Jan 2012 - Rear Drive Failed!

Did 450 kms yesterday, and was on another 300 km run today, when I felt a funny harmonic buzz through the footpegs. Wasn't long before I realised it was a bearing, so I eased off, then stopped, then had a play, then tried to baby Goliath home at low speed. No go. Dead rear drive unit. Still had drive, but terrible noises!


Kipper was not at all pleased with the holdup on the side of the road some 50 kms from home.


I called a mate (Garry) to assist with a rescue (thanks mate). Kipper got pretty bored waiting around so he climbed back into the tub and had a snooze!


After Garry arrived, I got him to stay with the outfit while I grabbed my 4WD and trailer. Took two hours or more for the running around, but I eventually got the thing home and unloaded.

Some oil leaking from the drive unit.


And a few scrape marks on the disk bolts where the dead bearing allowed the wheel to move a bit.


And some gouges on the brake caliper as well.


I haven't stripped it down, and don't really have the gear to do a rebuild here. I'll probably take the rear drive unit off and then get done (rebuilt) at my local BMW specialist. Depends what's gone wrong inside I suppose.

I need to do some research on the remove and install on these, and figure out if I'm ok to do it. Tooling might be an issue, but I have access to the right torque wrenches etc for the reinstall. I can't do the rebuild, just the rear drive unit remove and replace. I'll have to fund someone elses' holidays for the rebuild.

So frustrating. Maybe it was on its way out before the sidecar (65,000 kms). Maybe I've been pushing it too hard and overpowered the bearing. Maybe these bikes aren't capable of carrying a sidecar. Who knows? It still rotates by hand, but feels like stirring marbles in a corrugated jam tin!

Sucks big-time.
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Old 01-15-2012, 05:25 AM   #47
pops
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Sorry to hear of your gsa troubles Mick.
This is the link i used when i rebuilt my spare diff .

While you are in there check your u joints on the tailshaft and your pivit bearings

http://advwisdom.hogranch.com/Wisdom...ive%20R&R.html

Cheers Ian
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Old 01-15-2012, 07:48 AM   #48
rg, sw wa.
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Final drive seal / bearing replacement

Special tools needed: heat gun and freezer

It's not that difficult to replace the final drive seal and / or bearing. I can say that from replacing both and following someone else's very good How To Directions with pictures on this site. I haven't had my first cup of coffee yet and could not quickly find the same Directions to pass along the link to you. I am sure if you do some searching around you can find some very good How To Directions.
My 2 cents,
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Old 01-15-2012, 04:26 PM   #49
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Thanks guys

Thanks for the link Ian. Useful!

Heat gun a freezer? Got both those! I'm more interested in finding out why?, so I''ll take this rebuild nice and slow. I'm a little fearful that I rode too long on the dead bearing and may have spread bits through the drive. Heaven knows what else is in there that will need replacing.

So much for my big ride to WA. That's on hold until this is done and well tested for reliability.

Cheers, Mick.
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Old 01-15-2012, 08:34 PM   #50
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Sorry to hear about that Mick.Maybe this will help out.



Cheers
Andrew
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Old 01-16-2012, 01:00 AM   #51
pops
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Top work finding that Andrew .

Mick the spare diff i just put new bearings in had 65000 km on it and is was still in very good condition .
The diff on my bike has 70000km on it .Some very Hard miles on it and still no play or oil leaks .

Your big trip to the west "Go for it "

Cheers Ian
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Old 01-16-2012, 02:44 AM   #52
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Hi Mick,
A great looking outfit. If your ever up Bathurst way give me a call. I have mine attached to the crashbar too plus a lot of other places. Lots of ks so far with no problem. It would be good to compare both set ups.

Mick
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Old 01-16-2012, 05:23 AM   #53
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I had a drive failure on my 1200lt, in the end removed the drive assembly at home in the shed, sourced the bearings etc at CBC bearings then got a BMW mechanic to do the install of the bearings, have to set the backlash etc, all up cost me less than the price of the parts quoted by our local BMW Stealer oooopps I mean dealer.

Do what you can yourself, it's not that hard. ( plus the self satisfaction for a job done )
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Old 01-16-2012, 10:36 AM   #54
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Mick--while you're working on your drive, can we go back to the suspension once again? Your post about the spring that Laurie installed left me confused. You said it was a 1000-lb spring. Then you said it was a 17.9-- is that like 17.9 kg/mm (which would translate out to 1003 lbs/in.)?? I'm trying to figure out how to translate Wilbers-speak into Ohlins-speak (they use whole different languages in describing their springs.)

I spoke to an Ohlins tech about my rig, which is very similar to yours, and he suggested a 79 spring, which in Ohlins-speak is a 1085 lbs/in spring. This would be pretty close to your 17.9 if I've interpreted all this correctly. The Ohlins tech I spoke to confirmed that there is no magic calculator for figuring out which spring to recommend. It's all based on experience and judgment. Right now I'm riding around on a too-soft 13 up front and a 64 in the back, which translates out to 331 lbs/in front and 914 lbs/in rear.

Can you post up the complete set of numbers printed on your spring? And while we're at it, could you post up the numbers on the front spring too?
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Old 01-16-2012, 02:22 PM   #55
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Holy cow Batman!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DRONE View Post
Mick--while you're working on your drive, can we go back to the suspension once again? Your post about the spring that Laurie installed left me confused. You said it was a 1000-lb spring. Then you said it was a 17.9-- is that like 17.9 kg/mm (which would translate out to 1003 lbs/in.)?? I'm trying to figure out how to translate Wilbers-speak into Ohlins-speak (they use whole different languages in describing their springs.)

I spoke to an Ohlins tech about my rig, which is very similar to yours, and he suggested a 79 spring, which in Ohlins-speak is a 1085 lbs/in spring. This would be pretty close to your 17.9 if I've interpreted all this correctly. The Ohlins tech I spoke to confirmed that there is no magic calculator for figuring out which spring to recommend. It's all based on experience and judgment. Right now I'm riding around on a too-soft 13 up front and a 64 in the back, which translates out to 331 lbs/in front and 914 lbs/in rear.

Can you post up the complete set of numbers printed on your spring? And while we're at it, could you post up the numbers on the front spring too?
Geez Drone - So many questions about stuff I don't fully understand! I'm actually going over to Laurie's area at lunchtime chasing some bits for another bike, so I'll drop in and get the specs in more detail. I'm sure he will oblige.

The front shock I'm using is the stock GSA item. It's set at mid preload, so the middle of the five settings, and seems to be fine for my light outfit.

The rear is the stock GSA item rebuilt with new damper valving and a new spring. Nothing else. It's great. That's what I'll get the specs on.

The good news is that I have obtained a used final drive from Sydney and will pick it up on the weekend. $250.

It will give me the chance to get the outfit back on the road while I rebuild the old unit. And thanks to all for the great advice and encouragemnent to do the rebuild myself. I have another mate here in Aus who has all the gear and wants the rebuild job. Unfortunately, he is in Western Australia!

Ok - I'll post later tonight with whatever info I can get on the rear shock spring.

Mick.
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Old 01-16-2012, 03:05 PM   #56
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Glad to hear you'll soon be back on the road Mick.
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Old 01-16-2012, 03:44 PM   #57
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Contributing factors

My good mate Rob over in WA reminded me that there was a bit of play in the rear wheel when I bought the bike at 42,000 kms. Not an issue for solo work, but possibly a contributing factor to the current fail in sidecar use, and with sidecar loads applied.

I've looked hard at the tyres and the rear (now being replaced) has copped a hiding. The bike is pretty upright (perpendicular to the road), but the tyre has slightly wear to the right of the tread. I do not want to increase the 'lean-out' angle as the chair is already very light.

The bike is still 'steering' left at high speed, so I'm constantly having to input some steering to the right above 90 kph. It's another adjustment I need to make to the toe angle. If I can get the outfit to steer 'neutral' at 105 kph, then there should be no real load on the wheels or bearings. The replacement drive assembly that I'm getting will allow me to continue with testing and set-up work.

I just know it's getting so close to being 'right' for a stock bike. That's what I wanted to achieve. I think SRK must have set it up fairly neutral instead of listing to what I said I wanted. Great in the car park, but crap on the road.
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Old 01-16-2012, 04:03 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MIXR View Post
Geez Drone - So many questions about stuff I don't fully understand! I'm actually going over to Laurie's area at lunchtime chasing some bits for another bike, so I'll drop in and get the specs in more detail. I'm sure he will oblige.

The front shock I'm using is the stock GSA item. It's set at mid preload, so the middle of the five settings, and seems to be fine for my light outfit.

The rear is the stock GSA item rebuilt with new damper valving and a new spring. Nothing else. It's great. That's what I'll get the specs on.
Oh, for some reason I thought you had a Wilbers on the rear there. OK, so it's OEM up front and a re-worked OEM on the rear with that big beefy spring. Got it.
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Old 01-16-2012, 05:26 PM   #59
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Considered a Wilbers, but ................

Quote:
Originally Posted by DRONE View Post
Oh, for some reason I thought you had a Wilbers on the rear there. OK, so it's OEM up front and a re-worked OEM on the rear with that big beefy spring. Got it.
Correct Drone.

I was advised by Laurie at his 'Suspension Smith' shop in Fyshwick (Google him) that it was probably unnecessary to spend AU$1200-1400 on a Wilbers when he could do some magic on my OEM that would work just as well for AU$400. I've just come from his shop, and he offered the following info. It's a mix of metric and imperial data, so read the units as well.

The stock OEM rear shock is a good rebuild candidate if it is in good condition. He cannot do a front OEM shock.

The spring is an Eibach.
It is rated at 1000 lb in that it takes 1000 lb to compress it 1 inch.
Alternately, the compression is 17.9 kilograms per mm. A stock OEM is rated at 13 kilograms per mm.
The inside diameter is 2.23 inches.
The length is 8.0 inches.
He used a 15 mm preload spacer.
The also did a revalve on the OEM to match the damping to the new spring. No details offered.

For the Aussies, I highly recommend you try this before you spend big bucks on Wilbers or Ohlins, even if it's not for sidecar use. He uses a similar build for loaded touring on a solo GS bike, or pillion use.

Hope that helps. Mick.
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Old 01-16-2012, 05:34 PM   #60
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Rear drive costs

Subject to the degree of damage inside my broken rear drive unit, I have been quoted AU$450-500 at Mick Owen's shop for a rebuild involving basic bearings and seals. If the damage is more extensive than just the big bearing cage, obviously the costs will increase. Given the cost of the bearings here in Aus, it's a fair price as very little is labour.

I'll pick up my AU$250 used unit on the weekend and fit it while the old one is rebuilt. At this stage, I'm still tossing up whether to do it myself (probably) or pay the premium for Mick Owen to do it. Depends what I find when I pull it out I suppose.

I guess I'd better take photos as i go to add to the collective wisdom on this stuff. M
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