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Old 06-22-2013, 05:13 AM   #226
roger 04 rt OP
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Here's an update of where things stand with the Narrowband Shift device.

1) A dozen first production run units and cables for R1150 (Motronic MA 2.4) will be ready for shipment sometime during the coming week. Many of those have been spoken for by beta-riders, etc. More on this during the week.

2) We'll have a couple generic cables that I'll add BMS-K (R1200, F800) connectors to for further beta testing of these models. I don't expect any surprises. (See BMSK Proto Below)

3) Connector supply for OEM parts seems to be progressing in the past week.

4) Since the R1150 series is ready to ship, I've converted Proto 2 from 1150 to BMS-K and will beta test this on an F800GS. Because I have a reference LC-1 installation on an F800S I'm expecting this beta test to go well.

We've got several R1200/F800 O2 sensors and I've been installing them on my R1150, with a Proto modified to have an R1200/F800 connector on the O2 side and R1150 connector on the MA 2.4 side. It ran just as well as the R1100, R1150 single-spark and R1150 dual-spark. A couple user beta tests and then it should be good to go.

Here is a photo of the BMS-K beta unit that will ship out for beta riding for a couple weeks.

RB

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Old 06-23-2013, 02:58 AM   #227
Noblehops
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Great news

Thanks for the update. Really looking forward to installing one of these.

N.
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Old 06-23-2013, 04:14 PM   #228
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Great! Any idea on pricing range yet?

I am definately interested!

Jan
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Old 06-23-2013, 06:52 PM   #229
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pervect View Post
Great! Any idea on pricing range yet?

I am definately interested!

Jan
Working on that now. It offers a lot of value and has significant electronics inside. Range won't be far from the BoosterPlug, initially.
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Old 06-24-2013, 09:55 PM   #230
EKinOR
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Thumb 767 miles with production unit #1

Just got back from 767 mile trip with production unit #1. Bike is a 2002 R1150GS (single spark), with an IICE Air and Uni air filter. Entire trip was 2-up, total weight 1100lbs. Elevations varied from sea level to 5600'. Temperatures were from 75 to 40, with humidity from 30% to 100%. Speeds were usually in the 50-65 MPH range, with some short duration speeds a bit higher for passing.

Started the trip on setting 6, as I ran the test unit at 8 and wanted to see if there was any difference. I noticed slight surging at specific RPMs and it seemed to get worse over the first two days. Not sure why. Averaged 39 MPG for the first 395 miles (odometer).

I the switched to setting 7 when I filled up at 395 miles into the trip. I did not reset the Motronic. This seemed to help the surging and I only briefly noticed it on a few occasions. Averaged 39 MPG again over the last 372 miles.

I did not do a TB sync after installing the O2 device, but will do one as soon as I get the chance. I am also planning on having my injectors cleaned and matched this winter, and possibly rebuilding the TBs.

I am still very happy with the device (Roger did you guys ever come up with a name?) and highly recommend it, along with an IAT fooling device.
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Old 06-25-2013, 02:51 PM   #231
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Eric, I am interested in why you left the IAT fooler in place with the "Roger Gizmo" (my working name, feel free to use it ) installed?

In theory, you shouldn't need both and they might compete or compound. Is the IAT fooler there for open loop operation?
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Old 06-25-2013, 04:42 PM   #232
rumirunto
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lambda sensor heater simulation

Quote:
Originally Posted by roger 04 rt View Post
I'm thinking about a 10 ohm resistor but one kit I saw suggested 20 ohms would work--still deciding.
What did you decide on? I'm about to install my LC-1 and I'm leaning towards using a 2W 20 ohm resistor.
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Old 06-25-2013, 05:09 PM   #233
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Is this just to fool the Motronic circuit? My 1150 PCIII doesn't hook up the heater at all (it just blanks the pins) and I don't get any warnings from the Motronic.
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Old 06-25-2013, 07:04 PM   #234
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rumirunto View Post
What did you decide on? I'm about to install my LC-1 and I'm leaning towards using a 2W 20 ohm resistor.
No heater resistor is needed on an R1100 or R1150.

On the R1200 Terry rans some experiments and found that 120 to 150 ohms was all it took to keep the BMSK satisfied. An f800s rider used 7 1/4W 1K ohm resistors in parallel. That means the dissipation is about 1.5 watts.

I'd be inclined to use seven 1/2 watt 1K resistors in parallel or 1 150ohm 5Watt resistor.
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Old 06-25-2013, 07:10 PM   #235
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Canoehead View Post
Eric, I am interested in why you left the IAT fooler in place with the "Roger Gizmo" (my working name, feel free to use it ) installed?

In theory, you shouldn't need both and they might compete or compound. Is the IAT fooler there for open loop operation?
By leaving the IAT shifter in place, set at -20C, you can think of it like every cell in the fuel table starts out 6% richer. That means the Motronic has to do less adaptation to reach a 6% richer O2 sensor target. They work together nicely.

It also works without the IAT shift, but the Motronic has to spend more time adapting. If you want I could write a longer example.

For sure though, they don't fight each other.
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Old 06-25-2013, 07:17 PM   #236
roger 04 rt OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EKinOR View Post
Just got back from 767 mile trip with production unit #1. Bike is a 2002 R1150GS (single spark), with an IICE Air and Uni air filter. Entire trip was 2-up, total weight 1100lbs. Elevations varied from sea level to 5600'. Temperatures were from 75 to 40, with humidity from 30% to 100%. Speeds were usually in the 50-65 MPH range, with some short duration speeds a bit higher for passing.

Started the trip on setting 6, as I ran the test unit at 8 and wanted to see if there was any difference. I noticed slight surging at specific RPMs and it seemed to get worse over the first two days. Not sure why. Averaged 39 MPG for the first 395 miles (odometer).

I the switched to setting 7 when I filled up at 395 miles into the trip. I did not reset the Motronic. This seemed to help the surging and I only briefly noticed it on a few occasions. Averaged 39 MPG again over the last 372 miles.

I did not do a TB sync after installing the O2 device, but will do one as soon as I get the chance. I am also planning on having my injectors cleaned and matched this winter, and possibly rebuilding the TBs.

I am still very happy with the device (Roger did you guys ever come up with a name?) and highly recommend it, along with an IAT fooling device.
BMW-AF-XIED, building on Steve's IED patent and brand. It stands for BMW Air Fuel eXtended Inline Enrichment Device.

Wally G found that his 1150 still had a slight surge at small throttle openings and light load in first second and third. The Motronic is Open Loop there. It might also be affected by injector mismatch. You could try reseating your Motronic, setting the iice air to -30C and BMW-AF-XIED to 8.

I'm a little surprised at the mileage because the RT riders have had quite good mileage even at 6-8% enrichment. Keep an eye on it.
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Old 06-25-2013, 10:10 PM   #237
EKinOR
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roger 04 rt View Post
Wally G found that his 1150 still had a slight surge at small throttle openings and light load in first second and third. The Motronic is Open Loop there. It might also be affected by injector mismatch. You could try reseating your Motronic, setting the iice air to -30C and BMW-AF-XIED to 8.
I'm going to check the TB sync first, but may try this if the sync is good.

Quote:
I'm a little surprised at the mileage because the RT riders have had quite good mileage even at 6-8% enrichment. Keep an eye on it.
Should it be lower or higher? That's about what I usually get on the highway by myself and at lower GVW. I don't have a baseline for 2-up as this was the first trip of more than a few hours. I tend to ride pretty hard and usually only get 36-ish around town. Highest I ever got was 41 when going through Nevada with lost of long, straight, level roads.
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Old 06-25-2013, 10:11 PM   #238
EKinOR
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roger 04 rt View Post
By leaving the IAT shifter in place, set at -20C, you can think of it like every cell in the fuel table starts out 6% richer. That means the Motronic has to do less adaptation to reach a 6% richer O2 sensor target. They work together nicely.

It also works without the IAT shift, but the Motronic has to spend more time adapting. If you want I could write a longer example.

For sure though, they don't fight each other.
Doesn't the IAT have an effect on open loop and the O2 on closed loop?
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Old 06-26-2013, 06:22 AM   #239
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EKinOR View Post
I'm going to check the TB sync first, but may try this if the sync is good.



Should it be lower or higher? That's about what I usually get on the highway by myself and at lower GVW. I don't have a baseline for 2-up as this was the first trip of more than a few hours. I tend to ride pretty hard and usually only get 36-ish around town. Highest I ever got was 41 when going through Nevada with lost of long, straight, level roads.
I didn't ask what you normally got or how you rode, and on top of that I was thinking about RTs and GSs which get different mileage. 6th gear on the RT is 11-12% higher, leading to better mileage. When I done estimates of the coefficient of drag, the GS seems to be 8-10% higher. So all in all I think that getting about 39, having gotten about 39 previously is pretty good.
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Old 06-26-2013, 10:04 AM   #240
wjg4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roger 04 rt View Post
Wally G found that his 1150 still had a slight surge at small throttle openings and light load in first second and third. The Motronic is Open Loop there. It might also be affected by injector mismatch. You could try reseating your Motronic, setting the iice air to -30C and BMW-AF-XIED to 8.
I'm just back from a 4200 mile ride in all weather conditions, types of roads, speeds, etc, and as nearly as I can tell the LC-1 has made no impact on mileage.

My bike is a 2001 R1150 GS with 80,000 miles, a 3.5 bar fuel pressure regulator, LC-1 programmed at .94, cleaned and very closely matched injectors, fresh valve adjust and TB sync, bike was loaded with Jesse side and top cases.

Traveling at 70-75 mph (actual according to GPS) and using actual (GPS) vs indicated (odometer) miles the bike got 40 mpg. That is at least as good as or better than got previously. Figuring mpg on odometer miles the mpg goes up to 42, which is what many report on their R1150s.

The good mileage at Lambda .94 may well be due to the fact that I use 6th gear from 62 or 62 mph on up. The bike pulls much better in the lower rpms with the LC-1.

As Roger mentioned again, I can still detect slight surging/hunting in the 2800-3800 rpm range in 1st, 2nd & 3rd gears under "optimal" conditions, but it is never an issue in normal riding.
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