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Old 08-13-2013, 08:32 AM   #271
Mr. Canoehead
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Based on this, I assume that you still have the charcoal cannister in place? Canadian bikes don't have a canister, so both hoses go to atmosphere.

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Old 08-14-2013, 11:28 PM   #272
roger 04 rt OP
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Originally Posted by Mr. Canoehead View Post
Based on this, I assume that you still have the charcoal cannister in place? Canadian bikes don't have a canister, so both hoses go to atmosphere.

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Ian, yes I have to admit I've left mine on. Seems to work fine. Since I have it I thought I'd find out how much it affect AFR when opened--not much during Cloosed Loop or higher power.
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Old 08-15-2013, 08:53 AM   #273
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I'll finally have time to install mine this weekend. Moving sucks.
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Old 08-17-2013, 10:48 AM   #274
Gary Stevens
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What's the bottom line of your analysis for us average riders? My used 04 r1150 came with a Dobek TFI that must allow for some adjustments you are making. I just don't know what to do with it.
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Old 08-17-2013, 11:29 AM   #275
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Originally Posted by Gary Stevens View Post
What's the bottom line of your analysis for us average riders? My used 04 r1150 came with a Dobek TFI that must allow for some adjustments you are making. I just don't know what to do with it.
Gary
The bottom line is that the simplest way to get fuel added across-the-board is to install a BMW-AF-XIED in series with your O2 sensor. Setting 7 adds 4% and setting 8 adds 6% to fueling throughout the operating range of your motorcycle. There are other settings, richer and leaner, but most likely 7 or 8 will be best for you.

You will have a smoother engine and more pull in the 1500-4000 rpm range because you have richened the mixture from stock (selected to keep your catalytic converter happy) toward what is called Best Power mixture. Your engine will be happier and so will you when you roll-on the throttle form cruising. This solution works in harmony with the Motronic, not against it. I don't sell them but Beemerboneyard and nightrider do.

Any modification of this type (including Techlusion) is only legal off road.
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Old 08-21-2013, 07:48 AM   #276
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LC-1 Installed on R1100RT

A friend from Vancouver who we know as Happy Wanderer agreed to be a beta tester for the BMW-AF-XIED on his R1100RT: R1100RT XIED Beta Report. The success of that inspired him to go whole-hog and install the Innovate Motorsports LC-1. GS Addict helped him with the installation and the workmanship is top notch.



The significance of this to all of us is that we will, as Happy Wanderer's time allows, start to get the first clear picture of how the R1100 makes its fueling decisions. Before going into detail, from the several test rides that HW has made to date, it's looking pretty clear that the R1100 and R1150 have very similar fueling algorithms. At first glance, it is difficult to tell the difference. Below is the first test ride made with the LC-1 set at Lambda 0.96 (4% richer or about 14.1:1). If I didn't know better, I'd say this data was taken from my R1150 it is that similar.



After riding for a few days at Lambda 0.96, HW increased the Closed Loop enrichment target by 2% to lambda 0.94 (6% total enrichment) and set up and took data from a cold-start to test ride on the road, that chart is below. A summary of what I can see from this and other charts he sent:

--Cold Start Enrichment: The R1100 has a similar start-up and cold start enrichment sequence, conducted as an Open Loop process. A difference to the R1150RT is that the R1100 seems to run a fixed time sequence from cold start where the R1150 shortens the time to Closed Loop, based on engine temperature, probably to reduce emissions. The amount of cold start enrichment seems the same as the R1150--10-15%.

--Adaptation Values: Based on several sequences HW sent me, and his reports, it is very clear that the Motronic MA 2.2 has learning adaptation, much like the R1150 and R1200. I can't say that the process is exactly the same, just that it exists. There are many who see the Motronic ECUs as simplistic, through the course of this project, I've seen many sophisticated capabilities in all models. This should not be a surprise since Bosch/BMW had had electronic fuel injection for about 15 years when the Oilheads were introduced.

--Acceleration Enrichment: Looking at the dips below the 13.8:1 line on the chart, you can see a significant acceleration enrichment, just like the R1150 and R1200. AFRs get to nearly 12:1 with a good turn of the throttle.

--Deceleration Enleanment: Likewise you can see bumps up to 14.4 or 15:1 showing that during mild deceleration the mixture is leaned by 4-8%.

--Overrun Fuel Cutoff: Just like with the R1150 and R1200, when the throttle is closed, the Motronic on the R1100 shuts off the injectors and the mixture shoots to the top of the chart, greater than 22:1.

--Rock Steady Closed Loop Fueling: HW is running E10 fuel during this test which shows that the Motronic has adapted (the fuel is 4% leaner than pure gas) its Closed Loop fueling to 6% richer than stock fueling (10% total enrichment considering the E10) and readily gets it back to 13.8:1 after acceleration, deceleration or overrun fuel cutoff.



Thanks HW for the big effort you and GSA made to get this installed. I know as time allows you intend to take data with the Coding Plug out. When you do, the last of the Motronic's secrets will be exposed and we'll all know once and for all just what the R1100s and Motronic MA 2.2s do when the Coding Plug is removed.

Great work!
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Old 08-22-2013, 04:16 PM   #277
Mr. Canoehead
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I dug out my LC1 to datalog my truck. What a PITA. The LC1 is more a box of parts than a product. How hard would it be for them to connect all the grounds together from the factory? And how hard would it be to plug the gauge into the digital output rather than solder it to the analog one?

Then, the LC1 only has a 9 pin serial connection, which my current laptop doesn't support, so I have to buy a USB to serial connector.

To log the output from the LC1 analog output 2 to my SCT tuner, I have to butcher up a Firewire cable (I haven't seen one of those in 5 years). Then I have to ground the LC1 gauge and the Firewire to the same ground as the 4 grounds from the LC1. There are going to be 8 ground wires in total! Admittedly, this is more an SCT issue than an LC1 issue, but still....

If anyone is looking at an XIED or an LC1, one is plug and play and the other is build your own... reminds me of Heathkit!

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Old 08-22-2013, 07:53 PM   #278
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The LC-1 reminds me of a Heath kit too. It is somewhat clumsy to configure but I did a separate thread with install instructions here: lc-1 install.

If you have the patience its a great performance and diagnostic tool. However, minus the datalogging capability a BMW-AF-XIED gives you the same performance and it only takes minutes plus tank removal time to install.
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Old 08-23-2013, 03:50 AM   #279
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Tank removal not required on the 1200 GS(A). Plug and Play, ground to battery, couple of Ty-Wraps.

Be safe

Terry
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Old 08-23-2013, 03:56 AM   #280
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Originally Posted by Mike Figielski View Post
Hi Guys,
Took a little longer than I had hoped but we just received our first shipment of 24 of the BMW-AF-Xied units for the R1150 series bikes. You can see and/or order them here: http://www.beemerboneyard.com/bmwafxied1150.html
Stay tuned for R1100 and R1200 plug and play versions as soon as we can get the connectors delivered. Thanks!
Mike Figielski


PS,
These work unbelievably well. Took off the Power Commander I had installed on my bike for one of these and I won't be going back to the PC! It is that good!
Mike,

Glad to here you're getting your first shipment and cables.

I am also impressed that you like it better than the PC III w/Wideband.

It is not well known that the main benefit of the PC III is the Wideband sensor, which Dynojet sets to 13.8:1. The PC III doesn't calibrate the Wideband so it can become inaccurate. Also since the 1150 adapts to the 13.8 setting it adds 6% everywhere through adaptation. So there is an invisible 6% in every cell.

That hidden 6% is only there after you ride for a while and the Motronic builds up some Adaptive Values and not typically when the dyno tuner does their thing. So it is easy to end up with too much fuel. Going further, the BMW fuel table has plenty of fuel already in the high power areas where tuners typically add fuel. So the typical PC Dyno tune adds fuel to an already rich area, and the the adaptive values add more.

Oddly the best place to add fuel on an Oilhead may be the 0%, 2%, and 5% columns above 2000 rpm. That is where the Oilhead is lean. But tuners never seem to add it there even though that is a spot that leads to surging.

Anyway, as you found out the BMW-AF-XIED gives you closed loop enrichment with the more robust, stock O2 sensor and is a one connector install. Simpler and smaller than the PC III w/Wideband, no computer programming. One potentiometer to set, usually at setting 7 or 8 on the 1150 and 1200.

RB
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Old 08-23-2013, 03:58 AM   #281
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Originally Posted by terryckdbf View Post
Tank removal not required on the 1200 GS(A). Plug and Play, ground to battery, couple of Ty-Wraps.

Be safe

Terry
Hey Terry, That's right, you installed the first R1200 beta for a friend.
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Old 08-23-2013, 04:51 AM   #282
terryckdbf
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"R1150 VERSION NOW AVAILABLE @ Beemerboneyard.com!
Hi Guys,
Well, it took a little longer than I had hoped but we just received the first batch of 24 BMW-AF-XiED units for the R1150 series bikes. You can see and/or order them here: http://www.beemerboneyard.com/bmwafxied1150.html

Stay tuned here for future availability of R1100 and R1200 units, just waiting for connectors to make the plug and play harnesses with. Thanks!
Mike

PS, these work unbelievably well. Took off the Power Commander Wide Band I had on my bike and won't switch back! It is that good!
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Guys, Putting it in perspective,

Six months from:

"Gosh, look at all this data I've aquired with all these parts spread from one end of my workbench to the other, I wonder if someone could make a compact unit, adjustable, plug and play, for a "niche" market, bring it in at a price point resembling a labor of love, so the collective could benefit from my original curiosity?"

To: These things are available.

In this world of instant this and that, the developement, testing, manufacturing, and final deployment has been quite fast for the business world.

Six months from napkin to fruition is nothing to apologize for. Kudos to Roger, Nightrider and Beemer Mike.

Terry
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Old 08-23-2013, 08:25 AM   #283
esorensen
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Forgive my ignorance, I've read the entire thread, wouldnt it be easier to replace the stock injectors with similar units that flow the extra 4-6%, and let the Motronics figure that out?
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Old 08-23-2013, 09:06 AM   #284
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Originally Posted by esorensen View Post
Forgive my ignorance, I've read the entire thread, wouldnt it be easier to replace the stock injectors with similar units that flow the extra 4-6%, and let the Motronics figure that out?

would not the motronic simply open them for smaller intervals to keep the A/F ratio its designed for?
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Old 08-23-2013, 09:08 AM   #285
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Originally Posted by esorensen View Post
Forgive my ignorance, I've read the entire thread, wouldn't it be easier to replace the stock injectors with similar units that flow the extra 4-6%, and let the Motronics figure that out?
Since the arbiter of the correct mixture is the O2 sensor, it works the other way around. If you put in larger injectors or raise the fuel pressure but left the stock O2 sensor (lambda=1, or 14.7:1) the Motronic would shorten the length of fuel pulses so that everything returned to the way it was with the stock injectors.

The beauty of "lambda shifting" is that by dropping the Lambda point of the O2 sensor (to say 0.94) the Motronic figures out on its own how much fuel to add to the fuel tables to produce the richer mixture. Most of my effort here was to make enough measurements to confirm that it would do what was desired without after-effects and without the effects being lost over time. The data is unequivocal, it works.

RB
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