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Old 01-27-2012, 08:18 AM   #61
mark883 OP
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Well, here's another couple views if that helps anyone. I can see some wear. But nothing that I'd say is extreme. But then, I don't really know what normal or extreme looks like.

Judge away, guys...





You can definitely see where the impact is on the "innie" gear.
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Old 01-27-2012, 03:45 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark883 View Post

Well, here's another couple views if that helps anyone. I can see some wear. But nothing that I'd say is extreme. But then, I don't really know what normal or extreme looks like.

You can definitely see where the impact is on the "innie" gear.
That contact patch is the forward driven side of the dogs. If the two surface areas are flat, ahh... the plane of the contact area is parallel with the centerline of the output shaft say, then it looks good to go.

But the thing is, do the shift forks fully engage the dogs? To check that you'll have to partially assemble the gearbox, and rotate the shift drum by hand. Stuff some modelling clay in the 'innie' and shift the gear to engage the dog. Then see if the the flattened surface of the clay lines up with the innermost edge of the contact patch/drive area.


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Old 01-27-2012, 06:48 PM   #63
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Poolside-

Thanks for the advice. I think the surfaces do look good.

Sounds like I've got some test assembly to do.

We shall see what develops.......
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Old 01-31-2012, 06:05 AM   #64
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Oops! I is an idiot!

That fork I have shown here... its actually the 5th gear actuator. It takes the rotating 3rd gear, and slides it into the freewheeling 5th gear, to lock it into the output shaft. I does nothing but 5th gear. So, 5th shifts fine, it is not the cause of my occasional crunch shifts.

After consulting with my friendly non-so-neighborhood BMW parts guy, it will be reused.

I'm edging towards not doing anything on the gear dogs above. That would entail taking apart the shaft, cutting things correctly, then reassembling. Many potential make-it-worse (more expensive) areas, to be sure.

What I will do, is attempt to measure the case and shafts, to determine if shimming is close to correct. It probably is, but I might as well learn what's going on. That, along with Poolside's suggested pre-assembly inspection, may reveal if something is out of spec.

It will also be a learning experience. If I never try it, I'll never learn.
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Old 01-31-2012, 07:08 AM   #65
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Have you contacted Bruno? You might want to hear what he has to say and what he can do for you.

http://www.brunos.us/

I would fix it before you put it back together.
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Old 03-24-2012, 07:07 PM   #66
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Parts have arrived! I actually need to get this put together sometime....

Old input shaft bearing (red, left) vs. new:



Note wear on face of inner race (smooth areas, and ridge from gear) There is enough of a ridge there to easily catch a fingernail. The gear (prefix) would also lock into the bearing as well.




Also replacing bearing on other end of shaft. Its probably not shot, but why take the risk. One bearing made in England, other in Deutchland, so no Chinese crap in the BMW parts envelopes.

After consulting my BMW parts guy and his tech, I'm not worrying about the gear dogs or forks. Not enough wear on any of them to matter.

The shaft is in the freezer, getting shrunk, so I can heat up the bearings, and slip them on.

Then throw (errrr.... gently assemble) everything into the cases.

I hope Yamabond4 is good enough for a BMW. They specify some fancyass Locktite as a case sealant.

mark883 screwed with this post 03-29-2012 at 07:20 AM Reason: clarify
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Old 03-24-2012, 07:54 PM   #67
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Welcome back. Yamabond is good stuff for gearbox and motor cases. Hey, there's an 'assembled dimension' in the manual that pertains to the cush drive preload on the input shaft. That's what those spacers are all about. Or, maybe you had the resurfaced gear face cut to the same size so it doesn't matter.


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Old 03-30-2012, 08:11 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by Poolside View Post
Welcome back. Yamabond is good stuff for gearbox and motor cases. Hey, there's an 'assembled dimension' in the manual that pertains to the cush drive preload on the input shaft. That's what those spacers are all about. Or, maybe you had the resurfaced gear face cut to the same size so it doesn't matter.

I'm back all righty...

I don't think there's any way to adjust any preloading or such on the actual input shaft itself- One bearing sits on a shoulder, and the other (gear end) is pressed on, then pulled back to rest on the double-c clip, held on by the split ring. No shims under a bearing like the M94 design.

Based on my incredible machinist skillz, I measured the bearings, and they're the same, down to the .001". The problem gear was simply welded up and machined down to the same size. So, I don't know that I could measure things better than BMW did.

Assuming they did it right in the first place.

What has thrown me for a loop is the non-coverage of the M97 in my service book. Its dated mid-2000, so why no love BMW? A 'clean bearing' design is reference regularly, with some pics, but I think that's the M94 version. But, that's what I've been going by. I definitely don't have the older tapered bearings.

A little freaky, is that the book says there's supposed to be a spacer under the input shaft bearing, in the big trans case. And there was NO spacer there when I took it apart. Based on looking at that bearing hole, its not 'worn' but you can see that there was no spacer there- just where the bearing rested on the bottom of the hole. I don't see that spacer on the parts fiche either. I do have shims for the top of the input shaft tho- and I made sure I kept all those straight from the 3 shafts.

Since I only replaced the bearings on the input, don't have the special BMW measuring fixture, and don't trust myself to depth gauge measure to .001 over the span of 5-7", I'm sticking with BMW's original shaft measurements and shimming. I realize this will get me thrown out of the League of BMW Owners Who Know Best and Worry and Fiddle and Nitpick, but sheeze, Dieter in Munich should have got it close the first time.

I think.
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Old 04-02-2012, 04:11 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by mark883 View Post
I'm back all righty...

I don't think there's any way to adjust any preloading or such on the actual input shaft itself- One bearing sits on a shoulder, and the other (gear end) is pressed on, then pulled back to rest on the double-c clip, held on by the split ring. No shims under a bearing like the M94 design.
I see. The illustration on page 23.23 mentions three different thickness of lock ring. 1.85mm, +0.10, and +0.20. Though it doesn't mention whether the thicker lock ring serves to increase preload on the cush drive spring.

What has thrown me for a loop is the non-coverage of the M97 in my service book. Its dated mid-2000, so why no love BMW? A 'clean bearing' design is reference regularly, with some pics, but I think that's the M94 version. But, that's what I've been going by. I definitely don't have the older tapered bearings.
I see what you mean about the factory manual. It's hard to tell which pages are M93/94 and which are M97. It appears pgs. 23.21 and 23.22 refer to assy/disassy of the M93/94, and pgs. 23.23 and 23.24 refer to assy/disassy of the M97 input shaft. The illustration on 23.24 reuses the drawing from two pages earlier, but identifies a clean bearing.

A little freaky, is that the book says there's supposed to be a spacer under the input shaft bearing, in the big trans case. And there was NO spacer there when I took it apart. Based on looking at that bearing hole, its not 'worn' but you can see that there was no spacer there- just where the bearing rested on the bottom of the hole. I don't see that spacer on the parts fiche either. I do have shims for the top of the input shaft tho- and I made sure I kept all those straight from the 3 shafts.
The illustration on page 23.23 is the M97. Reference the note on page 23.23 - It defines the condition for not using the 42x52 washers in the gearbox case.

I realize this will get me thrown out of the League of BMW Owners Who Know Best and Worry and Fiddle and Nitpick, but sheeze, Dieter in Munich should have got it close the first time.

I think.
Heh heh. No, I don't think everyone qualifies for worry beads.



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Old 04-02-2012, 01:29 PM   #70
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Here it is, in its glory- The Input Shaft:



Looks good. Being back together, inevitably leads to this:



Gotta get that case heated up well, because you have to drop in ALL 3 SHAFTS at the same time. This should be good.



Hey, they're in there. And properly seated, I hope.

Which, after the addition of a few more parts, leads to this:



All ready for the application of some magical Loctite 518 anerobic goo - selected because it won't firm up while I'm dinking around, trying to heat, line up and beat the case end on three bearings and three shafts at the same time. No pics of that... sorry.
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Old 04-02-2012, 02:46 PM   #71
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I had the same problem with my M97 input shaft a few years ago. First indication was chocolate colored gear oil which happens once the adjacent input shaft gear wears far enough into the bearing that it breaks the seal. The bearing grease then contaminates the gear oil. I believe the wave washer is allowing the gear to continuously hammer into the bearing which eventually leads to serious problems. I replaced the wave washer with a solid washer. The transmission now makes more noise but I feel the problem is fixed. Unfortunately, I sold the bike so I'll never get to tear into it again and see if worked.

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Old 04-14-2012, 05:43 PM   #72
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Uh oh! It looks like the trans has found its old home. Of course, I remembered to do the age old shaft lubing, picking up some Honda Moly40 at my friendly neighborhood KTM dealer (who also seems to sell Hondas).

My shaft (errrrr....splines), after 11 years, seemed to have plenty of original BMW lube - which was really sticky/tacky- maybe a bit dried out. The Honda is much thinner, but should adhere well, but I bet the clutch lever will be slicker. I'm pretty sure the tranny had never been off the bike.

The most panic filled moment was when I used a bit of a baggie corner to cover the output shaft splines when I put the case end on. The rear seal gripped it a bit too well, and it was hard to get out. I also prolapsed the seal a bit removing the baggie. But I gently pushed it back in. Hopefully, it won't seep.

With a few evenings work, a bit of cussin', and some reference to old photos ( just how does the fuel injection regulator spider fit in there? Between the metal brake lines, dummy) and a few slatherings of red loctite, I ended up with something that looks like this:



And YES! it still fires up and runs! A brief 4 mile test run netted pretty good gear shifts and good clutch action/feel. Best of all, the rear wheel did not fall off. No apparent drips from the transmission or final drive area. But more miles will be required to fully confirm the bike doesn't have Harley syndrome.

A few more test runs, double checking of fasteners, and reinstallation of the crash bars, and I'll be ready for a bigger cruise.

Hopefully, the bike will soon return to Mexico.....
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Old 04-15-2012, 07:16 PM   #73
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Old 04-16-2012, 10:46 PM   #74
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Yes, definitely take a bow!


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Old 04-23-2012, 07:12 AM   #75
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Well done!
I wish you were my neighbor.
I have an M94 that skips in 5th gear (was rebuilt once for the 2nd gear skip) and I have a donor M97 (bad housing and maybe a sloppy input shaft)...
Maybe I'll venture into it this summer, bolstered with confidence after reading about and seeing what you've done.
Thanks for the writeup!
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