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Old 04-06-2005, 12:17 PM   #1
meat popsicle OP
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Oil cooler for KTMs

RELAX! I know this idea has been around the block for the LC4 but this is just a thought and a FYI for those with RFS bikes. It is from Joe Racer Products, a guy about here (don't know his handle) and supposedly a bang up feller! He organized the recent Clear Creek trial that looked like a hoot!

Anyways, here is his webpage:

http://www.joeracerproducts.com/OilCooler.htm

Now this is a done deal for the RFS so if y'all want to cool your bikes properly then buy it! The price is cheap IMO.

Now for the LC4... what'd'ya think? I know my bike heats up something fierce in the summer: would this help? I remember the discussion about oil coolers making the oil too cold so maybe there could be a petcock for the circuit?

I am more interested in a manual switch for the radiator fan, or better yet a second fan/cowling with a manual switch but this also looks like an interesting idea.

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Old 04-06-2005, 12:25 PM   #2
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I don't know... you could prolly plumb a little one into the top frame feed line and jam it up inside the fairing on the side of the headlight support... there isn't much space anyplace else.

Or cut a bigass hole in the faring and mouint 'er up high! Send me your fairing... I'll cut the hole.
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Old 04-06-2005, 12:28 PM   #3
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I installed an oil temp and a water temp guage on my 620, oil hit about 255-260F the other day on a 13 mile tight woods trail, 1st gear stuff all the way. Overheat light was on as well but I think it comes on too low. Water temp guage read about 220-240.

Doesn't seem to hot for oil, especially the mobil1 I'm using, so I dunno if an oil cooler would be helpful, I doub't I'll do so much tight woods regularly.

A water pump that moves water better and extra fan and switch would do more good. I have a fan on the left rad with a manual switch and had it running the whole time.

My overheat light comes on at about 212F according to the temp guage, a little low I think. My water temp sender is in the little hose that loops around direct from thermostat housing to water pump, I may move it to the head and replace the overheat switch with it.

I'd be satisfied if I could get this thing set up well enough to just idle forever without overheating, but it doesn't look like it's possible with just a fan on one side and a pump that doesn't move a lot of water at low rpms.
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Old 04-06-2005, 12:37 PM   #4
meat popsicle OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by creeper
I don't know... you could prolly plumb a little one into the top frame feed line and jam it up inside the fairing on the side of the headlight support... there isn't much space anyplace else.

Or cut a bigass hole in the faring and mouint 'er up high! Send me your fairing... I'll cut the hole.
Looks like from the pics that it mounts right in front of the radiator.

Hole in the faring!!! Well, creeper, I guess you have found your "bedliner"

ps - I dig your hole, did I type that?!? well, it looks custom.

I will be putting on a windscreen soon (boejangles seat puts me up a bit higher) so I am going custom as well...
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Old 04-06-2005, 12:40 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by txrider
I installed an oil temp and a water temp guage on my 620, oil hit about 255-260F the other day on a 13 mile tight woods trail, 1st gear stuff all the way. Overheat light was on as well but I think it comes on too low. Water temp guage read about 220-240.

Doesn't seem to hot for oil, especially the mobil1 I'm using, so I dunno if an oil cooler would be helpful, I doub't I'll do so much tight woods regularly.

A water pump that moves water better and extra fan and switch would do more good. I have a fan on the left rad with a manual switch and had it running the whole time.

My overheat light comes on at about 212F according to the temp guage, a little low I think. My water temp sender is in the little hose that loops around direct from thermostat housing to water pump, I may move it to the head and replace the overheat switch with it.

I'd be satisfied if I could get this thing set up well enough to just idle forever without overheating, but it doesn't look like it's possible with just a fan on one side and a pump that doesn't move a lot of water at low rpms.
Joe Racer claims 30 degree oil temp reduction on the RFS; should do something on the LC4 as well

More:

"The oil temperature is 30 degrees cooler then when its remains in the sump. This keeps the gearbox, especially the 5th and 6th gears (which are thinner by 20% then 1st-4th gears) at an acceptable temperature, I have seen on my KTM, oil in the 275-300 deg. F. Most motor oils start to burn at the 260. Deg F range."
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Old 04-06-2005, 12:48 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meat popsicle
ps - Creeper, I dig your hole...
The truth finally comes out... :ymca
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Old 04-06-2005, 12:49 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meat popsicle
RELAX! I know this idea has been around the block for the LC4 but this is just a thought and a FYI for those with RFS bikes. It is from Joe Racer Products, a guy about here (don't know his handle) and supposedly a bang up feller! He organized the recent Clear Creek trial that looked like a hoot!

Anyways, here is his webpage:

http://www.joeracerproducts.com/OilCooler.htm

Now this is a done deal for the RFS so if y'all want to cool your bikes properly then buy it! The price is cheap IMO.

Now for the LC4... what'd'ya think? I know my bike heats up something fierce in the summer: would this help? I remember the discussion about oil coolers making the oil too cold so maybe there could be a petcock for the circuit?

I am more interested in a manual switch for the radiator fan, or better yet a second fan/cowling with a manual switch but this also looks like an interesting idea.

Recently sitting in traffic for 40 mins on +90 degs day trying to cross the border at Mexicali my bike overheat something fierce, Water coming out etc.. Had to turn it off and push. The GS I was riding with got hot but didn't overheat. I've also had problems doing lots of tight single track and had the fan on continusly. I think they (or at least mine) needs an additional fan or more efficient fan. It needs to suck harder

Had a look last weekend and think that fitting a second fan on the right side could be done with minimal pain. I thought just to wire it in parallel with the current fan circiut.

Oil cooler could also work. Would be an easier/cleaner fit to the adventure as there is already a oil line running to the steeringhead. Just Put your cooler in front of the left radiator and run one short line to the head. As this solution has no way to control oil flow (temp) then it does worries me about over cooling the oil etc. Given that, I personally wont do it.
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Old 04-06-2005, 12:56 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisC
The truth finally comes out... :ymca
jealousy rears its ugly head once more...
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Old 04-06-2005, 12:59 PM   #9
meat popsicle OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AusieRob
Recently sitting in traffic for 40 mins on +90 degs day trying to cross the border at Mexicali my bike overheat something fierce, Water coming out etc.. Had to turn it off and push. The GS I was riding with got hot but didn't overheat. I've also had problems doing lots of tight single track and had the fan on continusly. I think they (or at least mine) needs an additional fan or more efficient fan. It needs to suck harder

Had a look last weekend and think that fitting a second fan on the right side could be done with minimal pain. I thought just to wire it in parallel with the current fan circiut.

Oil cooler could also work. Would be an easier/cleaner fit to the adventure as there is already a oil line running to the steeringhead. Just Put your cooler in front of the left radiator and run one short line to the head. As this solution has no way to control oil flow (temp) then it does worries me about over cooling the oil etc. Given that, I personally wont do it.
First, check Jerome's posts, he bought an extra fan and the cowling and cut it to fit the other side. Works great he says pretty sure he said the cowling goes upside down to fit.

second, you could always put a petcock in the line to shut off oil flow when the temps are cooler. beats the hell outa figuring out a thermostat controlled valve
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Old 04-06-2005, 01:22 PM   #10
txrider
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meat popsicle
Joe Racer claims 30 degree oil temp reduction on the RFS; should do something on the LC4 as well

More:

"The oil temperature is 30 degrees cooler then when its remains in the sump. This keeps the gearbox, especially the 5th and 6th gears (which are thinner by 20% then 1st-4th gears) at an acceptable temperature, I have seen on my KTM, oil in the 275-300 deg. F. Most motor oils start to burn at the 260. Deg F range."
That's why I use a good synthetic, more resistance to burning off below 3-400 degrees.

Additionally, if the water temp in the water jacket was kept cooler it would also keep the oil cooler.

Last but not least if I was going to get an oil cooler I'd go with a known brand like Jagg or someone. Motorcycle oil coolers aren't anything new.

As for overcooling oil, that would be the last thing I would worry about, even in sub freezing temps, a water cooled bike with a thermostat will make sure it's warm enough. Worst case a manual valved bypass is simple enough.

http://www.jagg.com/suzuki.htm

I still think the problem that I can't get around is low water pump volume at idle and low RPM's. The water pump just doesn't appear to move a lot of water, maybe a better designed water pump impeller?

The cooling system is my only gripe about LC4's, but really I guess most water cooled dirt bikes have the same issues.

I think a manual switched dual fan, and maybe a small 12 volt water pump would do more for keeping an LC4 cool in stopped traffic and tight trails. But at low RPM's at least my bike would put out the juice to run em.
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txrider screwed with this post 04-06-2005 at 01:28 PM
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Old 04-06-2005, 01:50 PM   #11
meat popsicle OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by txrider
That's why I use a good synthetic, more resistance to burning off below 3-400 degrees.

Additionally, if the water temp in the water jacket was kept cooler it would also keep the oil cooler.

Last but not least if I was going to get an oil cooler I'd go with a known brand like Jagg or someone. Motorcycle oil coolers aren't anything new.

As for overcooling oil, that would be the last thing I would worry about, even in sub freezing temps, a water cooled bike with a thermostat will make sure it's warm enough. Worst case a manual valved bypass is simple enough.

http://www.jagg.com/suzuki.htm

I still think the problem that I can't get around is low water pump volume at idle and low RPM's. The water pump just doesn't appear to move a lot of water, maybe a better designed water pump impeller?

The cooling system is my only gripe about LC4's, but really I guess most water cooled dirt bikes have the same issues.

I think a manual switched dual fan, and maybe a small 12 volt water pump would do more for keeping an LC4 cool in stopped traffic and tight trails. But at low RPM's at least my bike would put out the juice to run em.
Joe Racer is a small vendor from this site; anyone got his handle? He does event planning and donates the proceeds to the Blue Ribbon Coalition. Probably a good fella to support! The Jagg stuff looks nice too.

If you want a fan then try the KTM fan for the LC4. Not sure if the cowling would work for your bike but you could try it as well. I might try the manual fan switch first, then second fan/cowling with it on manual and the stocker on auto. Then the oil cooler as a last touch.

It would be great to be stressing this bike in hot climates down south and not have to worry
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Old 04-06-2005, 02:26 PM   #12
txrider
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meat popsicle
Joe Racer is a small vendor from this site; anyone got his handle? He does event planning and donates the proceeds to the Blue Ribbon Coalition. Probably a good fella to support! The Jagg stuff looks nice too.

If you want a fan then try the KTM fan for the LC4. Not sure if the cowling would work for your bike but you could try it as well. I might try the manual fan switch first, then second fan/cowling with it on manual and the stocker on auto. Then the oil cooler as a last touch.

It would be great to be stressing this bike in hot climates down south and not have to worry
Well my climate sure isn't cool at all. :)

I added a fan already, used a KTM fan and made my own mounting bracket with aluminum flat bar, I just wired it to a manual switch. It hasn't seemed to help a whole lot, the bike will still get real hot with it on if it just idles long enough or on a long tight woods trail. I can feel a decent hot breeze coming out of the tank shroud holes, was getting a bit hot on my leg actually.

I may try a second fan, but I get the feeling there's also an issue of low water flow at low RPM's. I may also jack around with making a more positive displacement impeller one day.

When my temp light comes on and if yank in the clutch and I rev the bike real hard several times it'll go off for a bit, kinda like if the pump moved more water the light wouldn't come on at all.
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Old 04-06-2005, 04:37 PM   #13
CountPacMan
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Thumb Dual Fans

For those that are curious about going the DUAL fan route, check out the new thread I just started:

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74946
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Old 03-21-2007, 03:34 AM   #14
Svendura
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I guess what is charming about an extra oil cooler
for my KTM 640 Adv is the additional amount of
oil that comes with the cooler. Must be about
half a liter when you consider the pipes and the
radiator. That makes it desirable for me.

Wouldn't that be a nice way to make the EXC
modells more reliable on the road and prolong the
service intervalls?

I wonder why KTM did never offer an additional
oil cooler or even make it stock gear.

Best regards, Svenja Svendura
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Old 03-21-2007, 07:46 AM   #15
dirtydeeds
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I read somewhere that about 75% of your engines heat goes into the oil (or into the oil first.)
A cooler for the oil is a good idea.
Some Auto-Trans coolers are designed to flow more when hot/less when cool. If this oil cooler is simular in design it would not "over cool". I would think IF it took too much heat away, the thermostat in you coolant would stay closed for a bit longer, and there would be no problem.
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