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Old 12-19-2011, 11:50 AM   #1
Wirespokes OP
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Airhead trans bearing

A while back one of our Aussie members who knows bearings recommended a unique bearing for the front of the output shaft. I'm now looking for that data and would love hearing from him to recover that data.
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Old 12-19-2011, 11:54 AM   #2
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is this what your referring to?
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Old 12-20-2011, 10:37 AM   #3
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Found it!

This is the post I was looking for - from a thread called: A Tale Of Two Transmissions - Airhead Style, Post #53 03-19-2009, 10:32 PM by Max Headroom

FWIW, I've gone out of my way to avoid having to resort to paying through the nose for the special bearing at the front of the input shaft. Apart from the cost of the thing, it also requires the use of the unique-to-BMW front oil seal because of the 26.5mm diameter of the extended inner bearing race.

To get around the special extended inner race, I buy a conventional NJ204 C3 bearing and a separate 20x25mm precision ground and hardened inner race commonly used with needle roller bearings. I trim the length of the 20x25mm inner race so that its length and the NJ204 inner race combined match the length of the original inner race. (The NJ204 has a lip on the inner race, just like the original).

The result is much cheaper than a genuine bearing, functionally identical, and allows me to use a Viton 25x40mm oil seal which is readily available.

I also substitute the 6304 C3 bearing at the front of the cluster (or intermediate shaft) with an NJ304 C3 bearing. It is dimensionally identical, allows for easier assembly of the shafts and it has double the dynamic load capacity of a 6304 because it's a cylindrical roller design instead of a ball race. And because it has a lip on the inner race like the front input bearing, it can take axial load.

The 6403 C3 at the front of the output shaft is still the big challenge, since that's the bearing that usually fails first. For the 'box that's currently in the R90S I was fortunate to find a NOS 6403 with a brass cage. Unfortunately it was the only one available, and I haven't been able to find any more yet.
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Old 12-20-2011, 11:14 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by Wirespokes View Post
A while back one of our Aussie members

I'm sure Max is going to love that
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Old 12-20-2011, 11:17 AM   #5
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New Zealand/Aussie close enough....
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Old 12-20-2011, 11:46 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Wirespokes View Post
I also substitute the 6304 C3 bearing at the front of the cluster (or intermediate shaft) with an NJ304 C3 bearing. It is dimensionally identical, allows for easier assembly of the shafts and it has double the dynamic load capacity of a 6304 because it's a cylindrical roller design instead of a ball race. And because it has a lip on the inner race like the front input bearing, it can take axial load.
In general: The cylindrical roller design can indeed take some axial load, but usually quite a bit lower than the ball race design. If there are straight cut gears in the transmission, this is not a problem. But, if there are gears with teeth at an angle, the roller bearing may wear out rather quick.
I would like to know what his experiences are.
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Old 12-20-2011, 02:52 PM   #7
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In general: The cylindrical roller design can indeed take some axial load, but usually quite a bit lower than the ball race design. If there are straight cut gears in the transmission, this is not a problem. But, if there are gears with teeth at an angle, the roller bearing may wear out rather quick.
I would like to know what his experiences are.
Also very interested in this idea and have heard the same thing concerning roller and ball bearings. But if this trans was to be perfect, and each of the three shafts has an angle cut gear on it, then you would do all the bearings with tapered roller bearings. Like the wheel bearings and steering stem. I think balls can take more thrust that rollers but tapered roller bearings can take the most. That is with out an extra dedicated thrush bearing.

I think we used to just say Timken when we wanted them. Sort of like saying Jello and getting generic gelatin. But Timken did invent the tapered roller in the 1890's I think.

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Old 12-20-2011, 03:11 PM   #8
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I'm sure Max is going to love that
Aussie, NZ - Same thing, Right? Just two big islands out there in the Pacific.

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Old 12-20-2011, 03:24 PM   #9
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Much the same as the US (which I am sure consists of Canada, Amercia & Mexico), and, of course Cuba....

All functionally one & the same - someplace over there - And not here.
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Old 12-20-2011, 03:26 PM   #10
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Much the same as the US (which I am sure consists of Canada, Amercia & Mexico), and, of course Cuba....

All functionally one & the same
Yeah, that's about it. What I don't understand is why you guys get long-distance touring bikes when you live on a small island.
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Old 12-20-2011, 03:33 PM   #11
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Yeah, that's about it. What I don't understand is why you guys get long-distance touring bikes when you live on a small island.
'Cause we all dream of taking them on RTW trips....

Actually a good portion of the population leaves NZ in their 20's & tours around for a couple of years.
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Old 12-20-2011, 03:44 PM   #12
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Much the same as the US (which I am sure consists of Canada, Amercia & Mexico), and, of course Cuba....

All functionally one & the same - someplace over there - And not here.


CUBA........HA HA HA , communist CUBA...Isn't it about the size of New Zealand?

Autralia is to NZ and the US is to Cuba...at least by size.
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Old 12-20-2011, 03:50 PM   #13
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CUBA........HA HA HA , communist CUBA...Isn't it about the size of New Zealand?
Australia is to NZ and the US is to Cuba...at least by size.
Well Cubans comprise 1/2 the working population of Florida don't they?
I'm sure if you asked the Australians, they'd classify us as closer to Mexicans - poor immigrant workers...
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Old 12-20-2011, 06:53 PM   #14
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Well Cubans comprise 1/2 the working population of Florida don't they?
I'm sure if you asked the Australians, they'd classify us as closer to Mexicans - poor immigrant workers...
Ok, now I'm getting the picture! But in that case, why would Max be upset if I called him an Aussie?

Frankly, I've heard NZ is a paradise and the people are wonderful. I knew a guy who couldn't get enough and every year took a bike holiday there. Some day I'll have to visit.
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Old 12-20-2011, 09:57 PM   #15
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Ok, now I'm getting the picture! But in that case, why would Max be upset if I called him an Aussie?

.
Ask a canadian why they don't like being called American & you'll see it in their eyes

As for wondering why we have big bikes - It's something a lot of people in the bike industry here have been wondering for years. 600s & 800s are perfect for our roads but for some reason we like our litre bikes.
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