ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > Old's Cool > Airheads
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 05-10-2012, 04:27 AM   #166
Freeatlast
Adventurer
 
Freeatlast's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2010
Location: This side of the Hudson
Oddometer: 30
Thanks

Great info everyone!!

Thanks
Freeatlast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2012, 05:23 AM   #167
ignatz72 OP
call me iggy
 
ignatz72's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2010
Location: Mid-South, M-town
Oddometer: 621
Quote:
Originally Posted by clfhngr View Post
tail light is standard R80 G/S. Guess the Beacon 1/2 don't fit according to Motorad. The current bulb is a standard 1157.

When installing the SM-1, where is the best place to tap into the turn signal wires? The wire harness and taps supplied are quite long. I would think should hook in as close to flasher as possible (blue/red and blue/black)?

thanks
Thanks for the photo of the taillight, I just needed to be sure.

No, the Beacons from ME don't fit the R GSs, but I have a solution that Eurotech used to sell prior to closing its doors. The following vendor in Germany is the supplier of the LED taillight that I bought from Eurotech:

http://www.moto-led.com/Moto-led/DE.htm (click on BMW on the left, then find the R80/R100 taillight on the top row and click it)

I purchased a spare so I can take more photos if you would like.

If you are not brave enough to order from a German vendor, then there are no other full taillight replacement options available currently.

You could go with an 1157 style bulb replacement BUT a standard red bulb would not have the white license plate illumination required by law. You would be at the mercy of any cop or inspection station agent as to whether you get a ticket or pass inspection.

The following bulb from SBLEDs.com would be my only recommendation for taillight replacement, since it does have a band of white LEDs for license plate illumination:

http://www.superbrightleds.com/cgi-b...cycle_bulb.htm

I think this bulb would put out much less light than a full-replacement option.

As for the Kisan turn signal wire taps - tap into them wherever you want. Find the most convenient spot where you can access both left and right channel wires. I tapped into mine by the battery where the rear harness attached to the front harness. It is not critical to get the tap as close to the relay as possible.
__________________
Current: 93 R100GS, 03 XR650R
Prior: 73 CB350, 77 R100/7, 83 R100RT, 04 XR650L
I love every motorcycle I've owned and even some that I haven't.
ignatz72 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2012, 11:13 AM   #168
clfhngr
Adventurer
 
Joined: Jan 2011
Location: Seattle
Oddometer: 37
Checked with Moto-led distributer in UK and r80 panel may be NLA. Waiting to hear back from Germany.....
__________________
-----
Seattle WA
1967 Triumph Bonneville
1981 R80 G/S
2013 Ducati Multistrada S Touring
clfhngr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2012, 03:53 PM   #169
mattsz
moto-gurdyist
 
mattsz's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2012
Location: Coastal Maine
Oddometer: 113
Like this thread!

Ignatz, I've got a brand new (to me) '75 R60/6 (my first bike ever, in fact), and I'd like to make some LED mods to make it safer. It currently has the 4 turn signals, the single socket parking/brake/license plate light on the back.

There's also a pair of standard NAPA truck-lite incandescent running lights on the bottom rear of hard saddle bags, which are old and have failed (the lights, not the bags!). I replaced them, but the modern versions have a backing of white plastic, which looks pretty bad. The old ones have a grey metal backing, which matches the motor color and looks much better. I'm thinking that I'll get some bulbs and hard wire them into the old backings, since they look so much better. Plus, it really looks like the bags were made with that exact shape of light in mind. I don't know who made the bags, there's no label.

For the parking/brake/license plate, - the Beacon 1 for plug-n-play?

4 LED bulbs for the turn signals (easily found in earlier posts).

Some sort of fixtures or bulbs for the bag running lights.

Here's the rub - I'd like some kind of modulation. I'd like the brake light to modulate a few times before staying on brightly, but I'd also like the two bag lights to modulate when braking, but otherwise stay on as running lights. One of the Kisan units seems like the way to go, but I'm not sure what I have for relays. On the fiches on the parts websites, there is a "hazard relay" shown - I don't have a hazard switch, but I wonder if that is my turn signal relay. No turn signal relay is listed. I don't know what's inside the headlight dome, or what, if anything, is under the gas tank.

Do you have any suggestions?

(panel lights later - just got mine all working with some creative use of the continuity meter and a soldering iron. All except the brake failure light, that is - I don't have hydraulic brakes! Wonder what that light is doing there...)
mattsz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2012, 07:16 PM   #170
ignatz72 OP
call me iggy
 
ignatz72's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2010
Location: Mid-South, M-town
Oddometer: 621
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattsz View Post
Like this thread!

Ignatz, I've got a brand new (to me) '75 R60/6 (my first bike ever, in fact), and I'd like to make some LED mods to make it safer. It currently has the 4 turn signals, the single socket parking/brake/license plate light on the back.

There's also a pair of standard NAPA truck-lite incandescent running lights on the bottom rear of hard saddle bags, which are old and have failed (the lights, not the bags!). I replaced them, but the modern versions have a backing of white plastic, which looks pretty bad. The old ones have a grey metal backing, which matches the motor color and looks much better. I'm thinking that I'll get some bulbs and hard wire them into the old backings, since they look so much better. Plus, it really looks like the bags were made with that exact shape of light in mind. I don't know who made the bags, there's no label.

For the parking/brake/license plate, - the Beacon 1 for plug-n-play?

4 LED bulbs for the turn signals (easily found in earlier posts).

Some sort of fixtures or bulbs for the bag running lights.

Here's the rub - I'd like some kind of modulation. I'd like the brake light to modulate a few times before staying on brightly, but I'd also like the two bag lights to modulate when braking, but otherwise stay on as running lights. One of the Kisan units seems like the way to go, but I'm not sure what I have for relays. On the fiches on the parts websites, there is a "hazard relay" shown - I don't have a hazard switch, but I wonder if that is my turn signal relay. No turn signal relay is listed. I don't know what's inside the headlight dome, or what, if anything, is under the gas tank.

Do you have any suggestions?

(panel lights later - just got mine all working with some creative use of the continuity meter and a soldering iron. All except the brake failure light, that is - I don't have hydraulic brakes! Wonder what that light is doing there...)
Sorry for the delay in responding - work, life, blah blah blah.

Easy stuff first!

Turn signal bulbs would best be served with WLED 1156-A18-T or 1156-A45-T (or 1156-Rxx-T for rears if you like). If you do this, I would HIGHLY recommend an electronic flasher relay from Kisan. The Kisan eliminates a lot of problems you would encounter otherwise, and has the Brake Flash feature which would provide brake light modulation via the turn signals during deceleration. I think your bike would take the SM-1, but post a pict of your current flasher if you want to be sure.

BE AWARE - I have yet to hear from others that posted interest in adding LEDs to /6 or /7 models that have single dash indicators for the turn signals. You will likely be a bit of a guinea pig here, but as long as you post progress I'll be glad to assist where possible.

For the tail/stop light, Beacon 1 would work flawlessly. However, if you want brake modulation in the stop/tail light, the simplest option would be a tailBlazer from Kisan. Your bike should take a 20W-D as an 1157 replacement.

If you want to get fancy, a combo of Beacon 1 plus a dedicated modulation unit *might* be able to be combined. It was mentioned earlier in the thread that Signal Dynamics has promising candidates. (http://signaldynamics.com/index.php?...hk=1&Itemid=77) THIS HAS NOT BEEN TESTED THOUGH!

And there's always the Run-N-Lites LiteBlazer, which I have and love.


Get back to us with some picts of your saddlebag hackery and maybe we can figure something out there (ideas like wiring them into whatever taillight modulation solution you decide on...
__________________
Current: 93 R100GS, 03 XR650R
Prior: 73 CB350, 77 R100/7, 83 R100RT, 04 XR650L
I love every motorcycle I've owned and even some that I haven't.
ignatz72 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2012, 09:27 AM   #171
mattsz
moto-gurdyist
 
mattsz's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2012
Location: Coastal Maine
Oddometer: 113
Thanks ignatz!

First of all, of course I'll post any actions and results here!

I've just done a first read-through of your post, and here's what comes to mind - more may surface later ...

Quote:
Turn signal bulbs would best be served with WLED 1156-A18-T or 1156-A45-T (or 1156-Rxx-T for rears if you like).
Can you, or anyone else, give a rough idea about the difference in brightness between the 18 and 45 lights? I just can't wrap my head around 70 lumens vs 110 lumens! Also, re. the 1156-Rxx-T, if my rear turn signals have amber covers, shouldn't I stick with amber bulbs? Or are there red covers available, I wonder...

It sounds like a Kisan relay is the way to go - without it my replacement led turn signals will quick-flash, yes? It's only a few dollars more than the Tailblazer, and it will accomplish the brake light modulation as well - I THINK (see below).

Potential Kisan issues:
  • If I use the turn-signals-as-running lights feature, it looks like my instrument panel light will stay on all the time, too. I don't want that.
  • If, when using the turn-signals-as-running lights feature and a turn signal is flashing, one side flashes and the other side stays on, my indicator light may stay on rather than flash, like above. I don't want that.
  • The installation instructions describe turn signal switches: "SINGLE handlebar switch requiring Push-to-Cancel to bring the switch back to neutral..." - this is different than the R60's. I may find that I have to turn the signal on, then cancel it immediately for the turn signal time-out to do its job. No big deal, I guess, but how badly do I want a turn signal auto-off timer?
Maybe I just need to find a cheaper solid-state relay (to solve the led fast flash problem) and get a brake light modulator? I need to do more research on the Kisan - the documentation isn't very clear on some things; it suggests that it will flash the turn signals as brake lights, but nothing about modulating just the brake light.

Quote:
...if you want brake modulation in the stop/tail light, the simplest option would be a tailBlazer from Kisan. Your bike should take a 20W-D as an 1157 replacement.
The tailBlazer shows a halogen bulb, and the documentation warns against high-powered bulbs, but no mention is made of LED replacements - I wonder can the tailBlazer be used with an LED bulb or configuration that will modulate, and also illuminate my number plate?

Quote:
If you want to get fancy, a combo of Beacon 1 plus a dedicated modulation unit *might* be able to be combined. It was mentioned earlier in the thread that Signal Dynamics has promising candidates. (http://signaldynamics.com/index.php?...hk=1&Itemid=77) THIS HAS NOT BEEN TESTED THOUGH!
This may not be a fancy solution, it may be my only solution. I don't know why this suggestion wouldn't work. Sounds like some calls from me to these suppliers are in order... of course I'll post anything I learn here!
mattsz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2012, 10:09 AM   #172
mattsz
moto-gurdyist
 
mattsz's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2012
Location: Coastal Maine
Oddometer: 113
Quote:
Get back to us with some picts of your saddlebag hackery and maybe we can figure something out there (ideas like wiring them into whatever taillight modulation solution you decide on...
The hard bags have a flat area where the lights attach which perfectly matches the NAPA marker lights that were installed - so much so that I wonder if they weren't "made for each other"!

Here's the stern of the bike (right-side bag removed):



And here's a closeup of the marker light - cheesy plastic base, but nice bright spade bulbs inside:



And, the original light:



See, it's "nice" gray metal that matches the other gray metal of the bike. Those rivets that hold the bulb mountings are loose, and the contacts inside are crap, so I get intermittent operation. I was thinking of hacking a couple of sockets that will hold LED replacement bulbs in this housing, and ditching the plastic ones.

Of course, black spray paint can do wonders for white plastic as well!

Low priority for the moment, but I'd like to do it eventually...
mattsz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2012, 04:22 PM   #173
Bill Harris
Confirmed Curmudgeon
 
Bill Harris's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2008
Location: backwoods Alabama
Oddometer: 4,968
Those are low-wattage marker lights. You need brake and tail lights. These are Truck-Lite #2751 single-faced pedestal lamps. NAPA carries them.

http://www.truck-lite.com/webapp/wcs...3826&langId=-1



I like-- and use-- this brake light modulator:

http://www.3rdbrakeflasher.com/

Rear lighting is important, but front conspicuity is critical:

__________________
'73 R60/5 Toaster

Bill Harris screwed with this post 06-15-2012 at 09:40 AM
Bill Harris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2012, 04:43 AM   #174
mattsz
moto-gurdyist
 
mattsz's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2012
Location: Coastal Maine
Oddometer: 113
Bill - I'll look into those options. I like the idea of keeping the running lights on the bags; it's a wider stance. I might look into trying to make them work as marker/brake lights at some point. I'll definitely look into that brake light modulator as a possibility!

Here is a photo of the new marker lights installed, without the cover:




The specs for the bulbs:
  • #193 MINIATURE BULB WEDGE BASE
  • 14 Volt .33 Amp 4.62 Watt
  • T3-1/4 Wedge Base
  • 2.0 MSCP C-2F Filament Design
  • 15,000 Average Rated Hours
  • 1.06" Maximum Overall Length
Maybe one of the ones on this page could directly replace them?

http://www.superbrightleds.com/cgi-b...ge.html%23wled

#193's aren't listed (#194's are, though) - but plenty of T#-1/4 wedge base options...

Hmm.. perhaps rather than rewiring my old metal lights, I'll just paint the new ones black and plug-and-play some LEDs!
mattsz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2012, 10:09 AM   #175
ignatz72 OP
call me iggy
 
ignatz72's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2010
Location: Mid-South, M-town
Oddometer: 621
Thanks ignatz!

First of all, of course I'll post any actions and results here!

I've just done a first read-through of your post, and here's what comes to mind - more may surface later ...

Can you, or anyone else, #1 give a rough idea about the difference in brightness between the 18 and 45 lights? I just can't wrap my head around 70 lumens vs 110 lumens! #2 Also, re. the 1156-Rxx-T, if my rear turn signals have amber covers, shouldn't I stick with amber bulbs? Or are there red covers available, I wonder...
#1: The difference is as the numbers suggest, roughly half more intensity for the 45T vs. the 18T. However, either would be brighter than an incandescent 1156. While some people complain about the "quality" of white LED light, colored lights behind a lens are very rich and bright. I have used 18Ts and 45Ts in my car, and the 45Ts are brighter and fuller. In my opinion the 45Ts are worth the extra money.
#2: I used amber LEDs in the front turn signals and red in the rear to avoid any potential legal issues when using the running light feature. Some states/counties/officers may be more strict on the letter of the law which says you are supposed to have red running lights in the rear. The red bulbs work fine behind the amber lenses, something that doesn't translate well in pictures. Using a red LED in the rear did not require me to make modifications to the rear signal lens (permanent modifications to stock appearance are a no-no for me on my current bike)


#3 It sounds like a Kisan relay is the way to go - without it my replacement led turn signals will quick-flash, yes? It's only a few dollars more than the Tailblazer, and it will accomplish the brake light modulation as well - I THINK (see below).
#3: Yes, without an "LED compatible" or Heavy Duty relay, you will get a fast-flash since other relays rely on total current draw to determine how/when to flash. The intent of this "feature" is to let you know you have an incandescent bulb burned out; but LEDs draw less than one bulb's wattage so the relay would think all the bulbs are out. See my note about the Kisan brake modulation below.

#4 Potential Kisan issues:
  • a I use the turn-signals-as-running lights feature, it looks like my instrument panel light will stay on all the time, too. I don't want that.
  • b If, when using the turn-signals-as-running lights feature and a turn signal is flashing, one side flashes and the other side stays on, my indicator light may stay on rather than flash, like above. I don't want that.
  • c The installation instructions describe turn signal switches: "SINGLE handlebar switch requiring Push-to-Cancel to bring the switch back to neutral..." - this is different than the R60's. I may find that I have to turn the signal on, then cancel it immediately for the turn signal time-out to do its job. No big deal, I guess, but how badly do I want a turn signal auto-off timer?
#4a: Yes, if you use the Kisan Running Light function, the dash indicator would light dimly based on the level of running light intensity (there are two levels). It's like 30% and 50% intensity. Since the dash indicator is part of the turn signal relay circuit, there is no way around this. #4b: In two dash indicator light bikes, the signal indicator lights still flash when the corresponding blinker side flashes, even if the running lights are on. Although there is a difference in voltage between the running light function and the actual blinker function, no practical reports of the single dash indicator lights has been reported here. You might get the behavior you are describing, you might not. You would be a guinea pig, err, researcher on this! #4c: The timeout feature for the turn signals is optional, and you can defeat it totally. I never tried a Kisan on my RT, which had the single switch mainly because I didn't feel like cracking open the housing to put the tiny springs or foam in there. I don't know if you would have to activate then immediately deactivate the switch to make the auto-timeout work. I don't *THINK* so.

*********
Another reason why I like the Kisan instead of a generic LED relay alternative, is that the Kisan has circuitry and wiring for creating a two-channel flashing circuit on our bikes. Especially with single-dash-indicator instrument pods, if you throw LEDs at it you may end up with an additional side-effect, the "all four flash" condition. All of the turn signals flash because your single dash indicator bulb and the low wattage of the LEDs totally confuse the relay and the turn signal circuit. The Kisan avoids this by creating a Left and a Right turn signal channel.

There are just so many ways that I find the Kisan to be such a great product!
*********


For more definitive answers to these questions, talk to Andy at Kisan, he's really on top of the product features and compatibility.

Maybe I just need to find a cheaper solid-state relay (to solve the led fast flash problem) and get a brake light modulator? I need to do more research on the Kisan - the documentation isn't very clear on some things; it suggests that it will flash the turn signals as brake lights, #5 but nothing about modulating just the brake light.
#5: The Kisan is NOT tapped into the tail/stop light circuit, so the only brake modulation that happens is via the Brake Flash function of the turn signals. If you don't want to add a light like the LiteBlazer, you would need to get a modulator of sorts previously referenced by me and/or Bill Harris. This would be something that taps only into the brake circuit (whether you've linked your eventual bag lights into this circuit or not. I would still HEARTILY recommend the Kisan instead of a generic flasher relay for the reasons mentioned above.

#6 The tailBlazer shows a halogen bulb, and the documentation warns against high-powered bulbs, but no mention is made of LED replacements - I wonder can the tailBlazer be used with an LED bulb or configuration that will modulate, and also illuminate my number plate?
#6: The tailBlazer is just a replacement bulb that should function as the bulb it replaced; that is, it would provide both tail lighting and stop lighting (if the bulb it replaced did both of these, i.e., 1157 bulbs). The modulation occurs only on the stop circuit, and is controlled by circuitry in the bulb base. Since the Halogen bulb is white light, the license plate should still be illuminated (unless there are two bulbs in the /6 tail (I forget), in which case one of the bulbs is tail/license plate lighting only. You'd probably have to talk to Kisan technical support to find out if an LED can be swapped into the bulb base instead of a Halogen.

This may not be a fancy solution, it may be my only solution. I don't know why this suggestion wouldn't work. Sounds like some calls from me to these suppliers are in order... of course I'll post anything I learn here!

One last item of note on the tail/stop light alternatives - I like the Beacon because I know it works in the stop and tail lighting circuits. Other commercial, model-specific options will too. Generic stuff might not have the right resistance to properly activate the stop light. I ran into this on my Honda, an 1157-R45T would not activate the stop lamp. This is why I recommend stuff that I have experience with over other possible options.

You are asking more of the right questions than I did when I started all this, so you probably have the chops to make it all work in a really cool way. I especially like the idea of combining your bag lights with the stop circuit, with or without modulation.

But be aware, much of this is simply a practical exercise. I ended up buying stuff hoping it would work, and it eventually did. It is complicated, but fun!
__________________
Current: 93 R100GS, 03 XR650R
Prior: 73 CB350, 77 R100/7, 83 R100RT, 04 XR650L
I love every motorcycle I've owned and even some that I haven't.
ignatz72 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2012, 10:15 AM   #176
ignatz72 OP
call me iggy
 
ignatz72's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2010
Location: Mid-South, M-town
Oddometer: 621
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattsz View Post
Bill - I'll look into those options. I like the idea of keeping the running lights on the bags; it's a wider stance. I might look into trying to make them work as marker/brake lights at some point. I'll definitely look into that brake light modulator as a possibility!

Here is a photo of the new marker lights installed, without the cover:




The specs for the bulbs:
  • #193 MINIATURE BULB WEDGE BASE
  • 14 Volt .33 Amp 4.62 Watt
  • T3-1/4 Wedge Base
  • 2.0 MSCP C-2F Filament Design
  • 15,000 Average Rated Hours
  • 1.06" Maximum Overall Length
Maybe one of the ones on this page could directly replace them?

http://www.superbrightleds.com/cgi-b...ge.html%23wled

#193's aren't listed (#194's are, though) - but plenty of T#-1/4 wedge base options...

Hmm.. perhaps rather than rewiring my old metal lights, I'll just paint the new ones black and plug-and-play some LEDs!
The WLED-xHP is probably your best bet here, and as I recall 193/194 are the same base. T3-1/4 are roughly the same too. I broke out the micrometer and matched up the bulb diameters and lengths, as well as the base dimensions with the dimensions provided at SBLEDs.com.

However, even these might not be bright enough in this application.

You may want to look for a Red LED panel (like the Amber ones Bill Harris has on his crashbars). Next time you are on the highway, look for a Love's or a T/A truck stop - they will have tons of LED light alternatives that might be the same dimensions of the panels you have now.
__________________
Current: 93 R100GS, 03 XR650R
Prior: 73 CB350, 77 R100/7, 83 R100RT, 04 XR650L
I love every motorcycle I've owned and even some that I haven't.
ignatz72 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2012, 08:05 AM   #177
darklight79
scaffold builder
 
Joined: Jun 2010
Location: Eureka ,Calif
Oddometer: 403
OOOOps

So ..During the process of cable rerouting ...94 gs ... I must have shorted sumthing ... Popped the number 3 fuse ... After fuse replaced frt and rear and dash signals on without key on ....With key on no flash ...left side ok ...so ...I isolated the problem to the SM6 by putting the beemer relay back in . I think I need a new sm6 ...Second opinions anyone ?
darklight79 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2012, 09:08 AM   #178
ignatz72 OP
call me iggy
 
ignatz72's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2010
Location: Mid-South, M-town
Oddometer: 621
This happened to me once when washing the bike... Call Andy at Kisan and ask about the factory reset procedure.

I have it written down somewhere but it involves holding buttons and switching the ignition off and on in a particulr fashion.

Took a few tries to get right but it corrected my issue.
__________________
Current: 93 R100GS, 03 XR650R
Prior: 73 CB350, 77 R100/7, 83 R100RT, 04 XR650L
I love every motorcycle I've owned and even some that I haven't.

ignatz72 screwed with this post 07-02-2012 at 09:40 AM
ignatz72 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2012, 01:29 PM   #179
darklight79
scaffold builder
 
Joined: Jun 2010
Location: Eureka ,Calif
Oddometer: 403
Thanks fof the info ... Kisan tech seems to be taking the day off .... i have my fingers crossed that that will correct the condition ....sure hope its not a wire shorted out ... everything seems to work with the stock relay .... sooo far
darklight79 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2012, 10:08 AM   #180
darklight79
scaffold builder
 
Joined: Jun 2010
Location: Eureka ,Calif
Oddometer: 403
Iggy I have been unable to get a hold of kisan tech ... any memories on reset procedure ? thanks stu
darklight79 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 04:03 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014