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Old 12-28-2011, 02:45 PM   #16
Les_Garten
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Hey,
Nice post. You're right about LEDs, you get what you pay for engineering wise. The prices are dropping and the engineering is getting better and that's a good thing!

I have a '92 100RT to S conversion and am looking at lights.

I don't want to run resistors, because it just chews thru electricity and burns it off as heat.

I am not really interested in the signal minder or running lights necessarily.

But I would like to combine these bulbs with a tailight modulator. Ideally a tailight modulator that modulated the turn signals as part of the brake lights. Might want to change the rear turn signal lenses red?

No resistors, obviously I need some time of load independent relay.

Got any suggestions how to do those tasks?
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Old 12-28-2011, 05:17 PM   #17
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No rear turn signal lens modification needed!

Well aside from attempting to splice/solder the turn signal circuit into a "made for Airhead" taillight replacement that offers modulation (which would be above my electrical skill level), I would recommend a 45 LED 1157 bulb (or Tail Blazer) in the stock housing and one of the following:

http://hyperlites.com/moddf.html

http://www.duncansbeemers.com/pimages4/litblaz.jpg
or
http://www.run-n-lites.com/prod-LiteBlazer.asp

If you don't mind replacing the stock tail light reflector with an LED upgrade, Motoelek.com has the Beacon II that ought to work on your bike (I used one of these on my 83RT and loved it). If you want to keep the stock reflector, Rick also sells the Tailblazer bulb by Kisan, designed to offer stop modulation in the stock tail light bulb socket.
http://motoelekt.com/lighting.htm

*******************************************
Well, shit, the other tail light replacement I'd seen was written about on Marburger's site (http://www.gunsmoke.com/motorcycling...ght/index.html) but it would appear as though BMW Santa Cruz and the Brake! tail light manufacturer (gizmomill.com ?!?) are both out of business.
*******************************************

On my GS, I run the Lite-Blazer license plate bracket, a Eurotech LED replacement tail light assembly, the Kisan SM-6 w/ running lights (half intensity) with the "Brake Flash" feature enabled. You could get something similar w/ the Beacon II, Lite-Blazer/Hyperlite, and a Kisan relay (check the Kisan models for your particular bike).

Eurotech apparently got their GS LED replacement boards from the following website (might be good to investigate for your particular model): http://www.moto-led.com/ Achtung! Ein German!

The nice thing about the Kisan is if you enable the Brake Flash, it modulates the turn signals briefly during deceleration. Combined w/ the Lite-Blazer, I have a lot of modulation happening with all red LED output in the rear.

You can turn off the running light feature of the Kisan, but still retain the brake flash modulation (and vice-versa).

>>>>>>I'll try to get a video from the rear this weekend to show the brake lights all activating.

Best of all, none of these upgrades require permanent splices to the stock wiring!!! Everything could go back to stock in minutes.

And as for painting or taping the rear turn signal lenses - if you get the RED 45 LED 1156 bulb (or 1157 if you have the Run-N-Lites signal replacement sockets), you will not need to do it. Check out my dark garage video again, there's no amber light hitting my back wall - it's all red!

A few last items of note:
----------------------------------
Apparently the Lite-Buddies have a spotty reputation for reliability - I had some in my RT and they were fine but I didn't like the way they looked in the stop light housing (done by the P.O.). I DO like the Lite-Blazer - it has a solid metal housing and would probably take a good beating to kill it.

Also, LED BULB replacements have come a LONG way in the last few years, and I can vouch for the bulbs of the specific type that I have posted above - they cast a LOT of light and do so in 360 degrees. It bears repeating for others that might read this -- if you want to scrimp for a few dollars on a cheaper LED bulb, you will probably be disappointed.
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ignatz72 screwed with this post 12-29-2011 at 06:18 PM Reason: trying to add color to links
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Old 12-28-2011, 06:19 PM   #18
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Thanx!

Nice post, there's a lot there. I'm reading it over a few times.
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Old 12-28-2011, 08:18 PM   #19
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When you ordered from Superbright LEDs, you ordered colored lights.

The white lights put out more Lumens, did you consider those?
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Old 12-29-2011, 06:06 AM   #20
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Yes I initially intended to buy white LED lights, but there are a few info pages and demo videos at superbrightleds.com that say you should choose a bulb that matches the lens for LED applications. This is because a white LED is not at all like a white incandescent, and lumen values are not really comparable between the two (LED lumens are nearer to one wavelength of color, incandescents are full spectrum; also lumens are apparently measured omnidirectionally). The proper usage of LEDs with a reflector and lens type will determine the overall brightness. A white LED bulb would tend to "wash out" a colored lens, while a colored LED would complement and enhance a lens of the same color. For example, an amber LED bulb in an amber lens appears brighter and richer than a white LED bulb behind the same lens. Also, a non-tower type LED bulb would only shine in the forward/rearward direction, providing no sideways light output like an incandescent, therefore seeming much dimmer.

I suppose the point of this rambling is this - it's not necessarily the overall lumens a bulb puts out, but rather how much of the lumens are acutally usable. A white LED behind a colored lens would have LESS usable lumens for that lens' particular color (excluding white/clear as a color of lens). The type of LED bulb and the housing it will be used in impact usable lumens too.

I took a chance with the RED bulbs in the rear, and it worked great - I am assuming because amber is closer to red than it would be to white.

I can testify that the light coming from all turn signals is not at all washed out, and superbrightleds.com has led me to an informed purchase decision with their info pages.

http://www.superbrightleds.com/cgi-b...bulb-notes.htm

These videos I found during my search really brought it home for me (the diff. btwn incandescent, regular LED, and tower style SMD LED, and what color to buy):







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Old 12-29-2011, 02:10 PM   #21
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Thanx, neat videos!
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Old 12-29-2011, 06:20 PM   #22
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Brake modulation action

Here's the promised video of the brake modulation w/ the Kisan and LiteBlazer:

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Old 12-29-2011, 06:44 PM   #23
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That's exactly what I'm trying to avoid.

No offence, looks like a close encounter of the third kind! I'm expecting to hear musical tones come out of your saddlebags.

So, here is what I'm trying to work out.

I missed a return call from Kissan today.

I want to get the bracket light that you have but no flashing brains to it. Get the Motoelectric Beacon 2. Put in the superleds in the rear signals and have them all flash on the same modulation frequency.

The Kissan folks have a splice in tailblazer but I don't think it does the turn signals.

There is a unit made by the Back-Off folks that may work, I'm looking into it.

Thanx for the Video, and the great thread!
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Old 12-30-2011, 04:27 PM   #24
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Well, close encounters of any kind are what I'm trying to avoid! I've been hit by cages from behind and the side, so CONSPICUITY is the name of the game at this point in my life.

As for sounds coming from the saddlebags, just wait until my subwoofers get installed. You thought dual Fiamms were awesome?!?

To each his/her own, though, and no offense taken. The beauty of the options we have available now is the "tunability" of the various parts.

My main goal is to be as bright as possible in the day, since most of my riding is daylight in the city. I usually turn off the brake flash function when touring in the country (it is a bit much then).

I think for what you want, the programmable Hyperlites (or just running/brake lights with these: http://hyperlites.com/nondf.html), with the Beacon II and a Kisan Signal Minder turn signal flasher would give you the most control of all dem Das Blinken Lights. The Lite-Blazer is non-programmable. The easiest way to get turn signal modulation is through a Kisan SM.

I'm going to party the New Year with TN Thumper and his wife in AR, but after I return from the Hillbilly Hootenanny I'll post another vid in the daytime after installation of my new headlight switch assembly.


P.S. The Signal Dynamics stuff does look promising (http://signaldynamics.com/index.php?...mart&Itemid=77), particularly the "Tri-Star™ XP Turn Signal to Brake Conversion with Running Lights" but looks like a Dual Load Equalizer would probably be needed.

P.P.S. For those that have read this far, apprarently the Dual Load Equalizer (http://signaldynamics.com/index.php?...mart&Itemid=77) would solve the Fast Flash condition of the stock flasher unit.
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Old 01-08-2012, 01:37 PM   #25
Les_Garten
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I talked with Kisan(Andy) and am going that direction. HD100 and SM-1, Beacon 2, SB Leds and some type of License plate light synced in with the Tailblazer.

A couple of Questions,

Does the SM-1 do the running lights option?

On that last video, what are you switching up on your bars to change functions? I thought the Kisan stuff had jumper switches to change functions?
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Old 01-08-2012, 01:44 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Les_Garten View Post
I talked with Kisan(Andy) and am going that direction. HD100 and SM-1, Beacon 2, SB Leds and some type of License plate light synced in with the Tailblazer.

A couple of Questions,

Does the SM-1 do the running lights option?

On that last video, what are you switching up on your bars to change functions? I thought the Kisan stuff had jumper switches to change functions?
The SM-1 has DIP switches to control running lights, etc. The SM-6 for my bike has handlebar control based switches for that.

So on my bike, I hold the Turn Signal Cancel button down and modulate the stock 4-way flasher to alternate the running light intensity. The brake flash function is controlled by a "turn the key on while pumping the brakes 8 times" method, whereas this is another DIP switch on the SM-1.

Be sure to hook up the turn signal channel wires on the SM-1, this is what creates the two channel system on single dash indicator bikes, and allows for the running lights (https://www.kisantech.com/view_product.php?product=SM-1).
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Old 01-08-2012, 02:57 PM   #27
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Thanx!
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Old 01-08-2012, 10:55 PM   #28
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What do you think the SM-1 would do if the front Turn signals were incandescent and the backs were LED?
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Old 01-09-2012, 05:22 AM   #29
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Because the Kisan is electronic and non-load dependent, it should be fine.

I've not personally tested the SM-1, only the SM-6. But when I installed an SM-6 for a buddy I left out the front bulbs accidentally, yet the rear worked just fine.

Call Kisan and talk to them if you want to know for sure though, since I can only guess how the SM-1 will behave. The folks at Kisan are very helpful and friendly.


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Old 01-12-2012, 07:54 PM   #30
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LED saga pt. II

Well, if you've followed my input on this thread, you'll see that I've ordered some various lights for the idiot gauges and instrument cluster.

For the idiot lights, I ordered 1 each in green (from superbrightleds.com) for testing of the following: 74-xHP, 74-xHP3, 24-xHP. I expect to receive the 24-xHP tomorrow.

I received the 74-xHP3 and 74-xHP today. These are polarized bulbs, a fact I neglected when initially attempting to get them working. But all you have to do is flip them around 180 degrees if they don't work initially. In doing so, I demolished the 74-xHP bulb - trying to press it into the socket shattered the plastic base.

The 74-xHP3 fared much better, though (dielectric grease helps insert this bulb). After inserting this bulb and seeing no light:
From LED stuff


I flipped it 180 degrees to get this:
From


Nice! This sucker is BRIGHT.

A shot just prior to putting into the idiot spot for Neutral:
From


Finally in the Neutral socket. It's hard to tell with the iPhone picts/vids but the N light is much richer than the incandescents still in the Turn Signal indiators at this point:
From


And here's a vid of the LED Neutral light vs. the incandescent Turn Signals:


And here's a shot after I moved the 74-GHP3 to the RIGHT turn signal indicator (the difference is MUCH more noticeable in daylight - the LED is a good deal brighter):


Notice how much richer the right signal indicator is, and how quickly it flashes off and on. The left indicator is obviously incandescent, since it takes so much time to heat up and cool down during the indication cycle.

I like the 74-xHP3 bulbs, and will be ordering two more green for TS/N indicators, one red for oil indicator, and one blue for high beam.

---------

Thus ends the easy and happy part of the story.

Tennessee Thumper and I both thought changing the color of the Instrument cluster lights would be AWESOME. We both settled on Red, for the 24-hr LeMans look. So I ordered four red BA9s-xHP9 since all the measurements more or less added up. While the original BA9s bulb is rather small, you wouldn't believe how big the opening is in the Speedo/Odo for these bulbs. Even then, the BA9s-RHP9 was a bit of a close call, but the did fit the opening.

That's the end of the good news.

Two of the bulbs I received were damaged - the bayonets (or tits) on the side of the bulb were smashed in and would not "thread" into the bayonet base.

OK no biggie, I'll deal with returning the damaged ones, but lo and behold, the ones that would seat into the sockets WON'T LIGHT UP!!!

Even with one incandescent and one LED in each socket, no light from the LED. 2 x

So TT and I put our heads together and came up with some scenarios:

1. Bulbs were defective. I can live with this, just exchange and hope the new ones work.
2. Somehow the circuit is load-sensitive, so a resistor might be needed. OK, not ideal but doable if needed.
3. The Speedo/Odo instrument lights are somehow on a relay circuit, and that relay is load-sensitive. No problem, find a heavy duty or LED relay and rejoice.

Well, the answer, I am afraid is probably #3 (so #2 applies also). I put incandescents back in both Speedo/Odo sockets and pulled relays until the headlight/instruments no longer lit up. Mind you, I did this while alternating the "relay pulling" and "key in ignition on." You don't want sparks flying.


Turns out the instrument cluster is relayed with the headlight on the "load-shed relay" pictured below (the bottom one missing):
From


It's the bottom one that's missing. So apparently the Load-shed Relay does not like the low amperage LED bulbs. DAMNIT.

Complicating matters is the fact that superbrightleds.com does not have 2-3 watt resistors, and the Bosch load-shed relay does not seem to have a comparable "LED" or "Heavy Duty" aftermarket alternative.

Anyone found a solid-state or electronic replacement for the stock load-shed relay? I think it is a Single Pole Single Throw, Normally Open, Changeover (switching) relay. Stock impedance is 680ohm.

I think my dreams of having LED instrument lighting may have hit a brick wall on this one... 3 x


One last shot of the bulbs for giggles:
From


Unless you electrical gurus pop up to help, I think the idiot lights are the end of the road for the LED conversions on my '93GS.

P.S. Almost forgot - found a great page on Relays at Airheads.org (by Joe "Cuda"):
http://www.airheads.org/content/view/159/98/

P.P.S. No, Snowbum's pages didn't help at all on this one, surprisingly enough.
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Current: 93 R100GS, 03 XR650R
Prior: 73 CB350, 77 R100/7, 83 R100RT, 04 XR650L
I love every motorcycle I've owned and even some that I haven't.

ignatz72 screwed with this post 01-20-2012 at 06:31 PM
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