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Old 01-14-2012, 02:17 PM   #31
ignatz72 OP
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Since there is a dearth of load-shed relay alternatives out there I have a new plan. I am going to order a BA9 socket from superbrightleds.com to connect the bulbs I have directly to the battery. If they light then they are obviously good, and the fault is entirely within the load-shed circuit. If not, a return is in order.

If the lights DO work directly off the battery, then I'll be inspecting the wiring diagrams to see if I can manage to wire new BA9 sockets behind the load-shed relay (on the battery side of the circuit) so that they always light up when the bike is on.

My final idiot bulb arrived, a 24-GHP, but it would not fit the idiot socket at all. So it appears as though the 74-xHP3s will be the best alternative for the idiot lights (with exception of the charge bulb!).
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ignatz72 screwed with this post 01-20-2012 at 06:40 PM
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Old 01-14-2012, 04:13 PM   #32
Les_Garten
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ignatz72 View Post
Since there is a dearth of load-shed relay alternatives out there I have a new plan. I am going to order a BA9 socket from superbrightleds.com to connect the bulbs I have directly to the battery. If they light then they are obviously good, and the fault is entirely within the load-shed circuit. If not, a return is in order.

If the lights DO work directly off the battery, then I'll be inspecting the wiring diagrams to see if I can manage to wire new BA9 sockets behind the load-shed relay (on the battery side of the circuit) so that they always light up when the bike is on.

My final idiot bulb arrived, a 24-GHP, but it would not fit the idiot socket at all. So it appears as though the 74-xHP3s will be the best alternative for the idiot lights (with exception of the charge bulb!).
You don't have a MultiMeter with a diode test function? I light mine up with my MM.
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Old 01-14-2012, 04:42 PM   #33
Bill Harris
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The Load Shed Relay just cuts the always-on headlights for starting, and I'll presume the marker and instrument lights, too. My '73 doesn't have that so I've not had to deal with that creatively. My first inclination, though, would be to go Euro or pre-DOT.

As instrument lighting, LEDs may not work as intended. Bulbs have a 360* pattern (more or less) and LEDS are focused. The bulb(s) illuminate(s) the interior of the instrument housing and this indirect lighting illuminates the instrument face. The LED falls short because it lights up a small (but brilliant) spot on the interior.

This is why I went with the Superbright LED 360* white lamps-- they "mimic" the behavior of a bulb, and work very well as instrument lighting.
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Old 01-14-2012, 07:04 PM   #34
ignatz72 OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Harris View Post
The Load Shed Relay just cuts the always-on headlights for starting, and I'll presume the marker and instrument lights, too. My '73 doesn't have that so I've not had to deal with that creatively. My first inclination, though, would be to go Euro or pre-DOT.
Well you are correct on the Load-Shed, I jumped to conclusions on that one. I only noticed the headlight and instrument (speedo/odo) lights cutting out when attempting to start, but just tested again with my running lights on and noticed the turn signals and idiot lights cut out as well. So the load-shed is not the culprit. I think Les_Garten may have hit upon it:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Les_Garten View Post
You don't have a MultiMeter with a diode test function? I light mine up with my MM.
I just tried testing the BA9s-RHP9 bulbs with my MM in diode mode, and got no beep. Oddly enough, when testing the regular bulb with the same method (one lead on the side of the bayonet base, the other at the bottom contact), I did get a beep. This may be due to how the LED bulbs are wired, and I don't want to read TOO much into it since I am not terribly confident in my Multimeter skills... but I am now wondering if I didn't just get a bad batch of bulbs. The fact that two of them had damaged bayonets that made them unusable makes me think that all four were not tested prior to shipping, so this is a possiblity. However, I think having a $.99 BA9 socket to test directly against the battery is the best solution for determining if the bulbs I have are good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Harris View Post
instrument lighting, LEDs may not work as intended. Bulbs have a 360* pattern (more or less) and LEDS are focused. The bulb(s) illuminate(s) the interior of the instrument housing and this indirect lighting illuminates the instrument face. The LED falls short because it lights up a small (but brilliant) spot on the interior.

This is why I went with the Superbright LED 360* white lamps-- they "mimic" the behavior of a bulb, and work very well as instrument lighting.
Bill, if you'll look at the pictures posted just above of these BA9s-xHP bulbs, they have 9 LEDs total, one on the end, and eight around the sides. These (and a few other BA9s models on the website) are specified as 360 degree bulbs. Based on my experience with the 1156-x45-T bulbs, I know if/when I can get the BA9s-xHP to light up, they will work for illuminating the instruments.

The head-scratcher is why they won't light up.
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ignatz72 screwed with this post 01-20-2012 at 07:36 PM
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Old 01-14-2012, 09:17 PM   #35
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AH! I do see the BA9 9-bangers. My Internet connection was pitiful last weeks and I was struggling to see images. I knew they had the "multi LED 360* arrays" in the 1156/7 series but not the smaller BA-x series. They might not have even had them when I was doing the homework last year for my lighting.

Dunno why they don't light up-- if you have 12V and correct polarity, they should. You may be able to carefully rig up 21v into a pair of test probes and carefully apply that onto the BA9 bulb.

'Tis a headscratcher. You're doing everything right.
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Old 01-14-2012, 11:14 PM   #36
ignatz72 OP
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Argh!

So I couldn't wait for the BA9 sockets to arrive from superbrightleds, took Bill's advice and fashioned up my own battery leads with stuff in my garage:


First tested the known-good incandescent so that I would know the leads were good:


Next up, the BA9s-RHP9, all four (even the damaged tit ones):


So the bulbs are not bad, but WTF?!?

It's as if the Instrument Cluster Illumination circuit is load-dependent somehow, but how/where? Why won't these bulbs light up in the stock socket?


I suppose I could hack the harness to tap into an ignition switched circuit to make this mod possible, but I would really rather keep the wiring harness stock, and un-molested. I have some Scotch-lok connectors but would rather not even do this.

I do have a BA9s-xHP6 in my next order, and maybe it will magically work, but seriously, WTF?!?



Anyone have any clues?


**EDIT** the BA9s-xHP6 was no where close to fitting in the gauge bulb opening, without resorting to cutting the rubber or other trickery.
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Old 01-15-2012, 05:51 AM   #37
Bill Harris
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Now double-check to see if you get 12v of the correct polarity at the instrument bulb socket. And make sure that the center contact in the socket has no oxidation (a pencil's eraser makes a good burnisher). Even a little crud will affect these low-current circuits.

You're making progress.
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Old 01-15-2012, 10:07 AM   #38
ignatz72 OP
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+1,000,000 to polarity

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Harris View Post
Now double-check to see if you get 12v of the correct polarity at the instrument bulb socket.
Thanks Bill and Les_Garten, for helping me to see the forest through the trees.

Especially you Bill, since I kept thinking "polarity shouldn't be an issue for this socket!" But I woke up this morning and read your last post then it dawned on me. When I tested the LEDs on the battery last night, I used the side of the bayonet as a ground and the bottom contact as the hot lead. The LED bulbs lit. Incandescents lit immediately after the LEDs wouldn't in the Instrument socket. But incandescents don't care where the (+) and (-) are connected as long as there's current.

Could it be so simple that I just need to reverse the order of the wiring for the sockets? Did BMW wire these sockets with the (+) on the side, and (-) on the bottom?

YES.

From LED stuff


From LED stuff


Thanks guys, for sticking with me on this thread when I continued to over-think it! Have a beer on me.
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Old 01-15-2012, 11:47 AM   #39
Les_Garten
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Looks killer.


The Reddish light color is so, so, je ne sais quoi..

I got it, so BMW!
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Old 01-15-2012, 11:59 AM   #40
Bill Harris
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Thumb

Just one minor detail was the killer. Incandescents don't care which way the current flows so the designer/assembler doesn't care which pin in the socket is + or -. Don't feel bad-- that same deal initally bit me on my warning light conversion.

They do look good.


EDIT: I just checked the SuperbrightLEDs site and the single big LED lamp I adapted to my instrument illumination sockets is the same one they now use in the BA9S-W lamp and has the same brightness as the BA9s-WHP9 9-LED array (11000 mcd), so I'll stay with my current setup. Not to mention, the 9-LED array has an OD of 12mm, which won't fit my instrument (10mm ID sockets).
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Old 01-15-2012, 01:13 PM   #41
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Yeah, I'm digging the Red too. Red was really Tennessee Thumper's idea, I originally thought of amber or green. Green would be too bright at night I think. I liked the idea of green, like the Honda gauges of old, but TT brought up the BMW auto dashes in red and that seems more fitting. Plus red won't interfere with your night vision as much as other colors.

Heck, Red might be too bright with these BA9s-RHP9s... and they are rather large! Thankfully the socket port on the Speedo and Odo are very very large, much larger than a stock BA9.

I'll get another look tonight after dark to see how truly bright they are. I have another BA9s-RHP6 on the way for testing too, but if it won't fit (it is a bit wider than the -xHP9s) or is still as bright (8500 mcd in Red), I may have to try the single LED BA9s-x. That one only has a 180 degree throw though, but for $.98 it won't hurt to try.

Thanks again for the input through all this guys!

**EDIT** nope, the BA9s-xHP6 will not fit without molesting the bulb sheaths for the gauges.
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Old 01-15-2012, 01:19 PM   #42
Les_Garten
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ignatz72 View Post
Yeah, I'm digging the Red too. Red was really Tennessee Thumper's idea, I originally thought of amber or green. Green would be too bright at night I think. I liked the idea of green, like the Honda gauges of old, but TT brought up the BMW auto dashes in red and that seems more fitting. Plus red won't interfere with your night vision as much as other colors.

Heck, Red might be too bright with these BA9s-RHP9s... and they are rather large! Thankfully the socket port on the Speedo and Odo are very very large, much larger than a stock BA9.

I'll get another look tonight after dark to see how truly bright they are. I have another BA9s-RHP6 on the way for testing too, but if it won't fit (it is a bit wider than the -xHP9s) or is still as bright (8500 mcd in Red), I may have to try the single LED BA9s-x. That one only has a 180 degree throw though, but for $.98 it won't hurt to try.

Thanks again for the input through all this guys!
Kudos to you 2 guys for doing the investigative work on how to do all these light modz!
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Old 01-19-2012, 02:47 AM   #43
Bill Harris
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I had my own little adventure with LED pr0n yesterday. I've always had auxillary rear tail light/brake light assemblies on the R60. In 1981 I got a pair of aftermarket motorcycle turn signals (JC Whitney, even) and mounted them on the back near the tag. Later modified the bulb socket to include a tail light in addition to the brake light. In 2000, I upgraded with a pair of 60-LED modules designed for tractor-trailers and mounted them in stamped metal pedestal housings. Big and clunky and properly Airhead.

Fast forward to 2012 and I got a pair of Truck-Lite pedestal-mount single-face red LED lamps to replace the old home-brewed read LEDs. Nice chromed metal housings in a sleeker shape and brighter LEDs.

I'll do as-mounted photos in a couple of days, but in the meantime, here is some catalog pr0n:


http://www.truck-lite.com/webapp/wcs...3826&langId=-1



And, to whet your purient LED appetites a bit more, Truck-Lite has a line of LED headlamps:



http://www.truck-lite.com/webapp/wcs...0001&langId=-1
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Old 01-19-2012, 06:07 PM   #44
ignatz72 OP
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Look forward to the picts, Bill!

The way I picture it your bike will look like one of two things with these on there:

A '70s Police Moto Guzzi Eldorado (OMG, too cool)

or

A Harley (OMG, you must kill it before it consumes you)

For the love of all that is Euro, I'm hoping for the Guzzi look.

Are you going to try to fit the LED headlight? Didn't look like a straight replacement for an H4 housing lens... Wonder what kind of modification would be necessary to fit this in various Airhead H/L buckets. The low beam looks to save a CONSIDERABLE amount of juice, while the high beam saves about 10W.

P.S. Thanks again for keeping my head straight on the BA9s instrument bulbs - the last of my idiot bulbs came in and I am ready to button everything back up to give her a night ride. Now the biggest challenge I will face is keeping my eyes on the road instead of on my bad ass gauge lights!
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Old 01-19-2012, 06:44 PM   #45
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what about these

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