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Old 01-03-2012, 01:56 PM   #31
drc42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baja-chris View Post
Hi guys, I'm the one to blame for the new rules. This quoted post sums up what I was thinking with regard to the year cut offs. I think breaking them out by decade or some arbitrary year made less sense than attempting to break them out by fundamental performance capabilitites. Right or wrong, it's what I have for this year. There is no perfect way to group vinatge anything since each year the new bikes get a little better. I'm open to change for 2013 if the 2012 grouping does not work out for most riders.

Speaking of 2012, at the suggestion of one of you guys I am going to add some Adventrue Bike classes and would like your feedback. Thinking of adding two Adv classes, both requiring a 5 gal min sized tank. One for 700cc and up, the other for 699cc and under. Should there be three displacements for 5gal gas adv bikes? Dumb idea? Love it?

Regards, and hoping I don't get beat up too bad for sticking my nose under this tent,
Chris Wilson
NORRA
Welcome to ADV! No way we (not I at least) would beat up someone who organizes such a cool event

The Adventure class sounds like a good idea to me.
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Old 01-03-2012, 02:29 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baja-chris View Post
Hi guys, I'm the one to blame for the new rules. This quoted post sums up what I was thinking with regard to the year cut offs. I think breaking them out by decade or some arbitrary year made less sense than attempting to break them out by fundamental performance capabilitites. Right or wrong, it's what I have for this year. There is no perfect way to group vinatge anything since each year the new bikes get a little better. I'm open to change for 2013 if the 2012 grouping does not work out for most riders.

Speaking of 2012, at the suggestion of one of you guys I am going to add some Adventrue Bike classes and would like your feedback. Thinking of adding two Adv classes, both requiring a 5 gal min sized tank. One for 700cc and up, the other for 699cc and under. Should there be three displacements for 5gal gas adv bikes? Dumb idea? Love it?

Regards, and hoping I don't get beat up too bad for sticking my nose under this tent,
Chris Wilson
NORRA

Well said Chris. I don't believe there will ever be a perfect way to structure classes to fit every individual. That said, your care and concern for racer's opinions is truly great. I personally think the adv bike classes would be a fun classes and drive enrollment in the event.

I'd be interested in knowing how many CRF450Xs and other current race bikes enter the NORRA race in the MA class. Maybe one day there will be enough entrants to warrant an open '85-2000 class, perfect for the XR600 which offers a common and inexpensive racing platform.

I hope to spectate this years race and maybe participate in '13. It looks like you put on a fun event.

Goofy Footer screwed with this post 01-03-2012 at 02:35 PM
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Old 01-03-2012, 02:34 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by stuckthrottle View Post
Wasn't '85 the last year for rear drums on the XR as well as some other bikes?
IIRC, the '86 XR600 saw disk brakes front and back and back to the single carb.

IMO it should be 76-85 for evo bikes, solely based on the XR.

According to http://justxr.com/info/xr6_2nd_hand_faq.html
The XR600 came out in '85 and had rear drum brakes and dual carbs through '87
In '88 Honda switched to one carb and an 18" rear wheel but still rear drum brake
In '91 Honda went to the disc brake and upgraded the suspension


I saw a sweet '83 XR500 with a 85-88 XR600 motor (which supposedly is a bolt in swap) which had a USD fork conversion (most likely CR) for sale on craigslist last week. I hope whoever bought it plans to use it in the Mexican 1000!
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Old 01-03-2012, 03:24 PM   #34
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I think your technology grouping concept is something that could be great. I see three groupings and all about suspension and chasssis. There is old school, the extended travel suspension emerging in the early 80's, and then the long travel bikes of the modern era. Maybe traditional motor sizes.

Not sure about the Adventure classes. Plenty dual sports to fill out the lightweight class, but 600lb machines in bull dust?

Quote:
Originally Posted by baja-chris View Post
Hi guys, I'm the one to blame for the new rules. This quoted post sums up what I was thinking with regard to the year cut offs. I think breaking them out by decade or some arbitrary year made less sense than attempting to break them out by fundamental performance capabilitites. Right or wrong, it's what I have for this year. There is no perfect way to group vinatge anything since each year the new bikes get a little better. I'm open to change for 2013 if the 2012 grouping does not work out for most riders.

Speaking of 2012, at the suggestion of one of you guys I am going to add some Adventrue Bike classes and would like your feedback. Thinking of adding two Adv classes, both requiring a 5 gal min sized tank. One for 700cc and up, the other for 699cc and under. Should there be three displacements for 5gal gas adv bikes? Dumb idea? Love it?

Regards, and hoping I don't get beat up too bad for sticking my nose under this tent,
Chris Wilson
NORRA
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Old 01-03-2012, 03:36 PM   #35
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Thanks for clearing that up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Goofy Footer View Post
According to http://justxr.com/info/xr6_2nd_hand_faq.html
The XR600 came out in '85 and had rear drum brakes and dual carbs through '87
In '88 Honda switched to one carb and an 18" rear wheel but still rear drum brake
In '91 Honda went to the disc brake and upgraded the suspension


I saw a sweet '83 XR500 with a 85-88 XR600 motor (which supposedly is a bolt in swap) which had a USD fork conversion (most likely CR) for sale on craigslist last week. I hope whoever bought it plans to use it in the Mexican 1000!
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Old 01-03-2012, 03:45 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pantah View Post

Not sure about the Adventure classes. Plenty dual sports to fill out the lightweight class, but 600lb machines in bull dust?

We'll see how it works in the Desert 100 this spring :)))

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=748987
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Old 01-03-2012, 04:26 PM   #37
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Have you thought of a Malles Moto division? One rider, one motorcycle, one box… I know it would add some complication to the management logistics but it would open the race to those of us wanting to race but unable to support a chase team. This sort of racing could really attract adventure bikes and budget oriented riders. We show up with our supplies in a pre-determined size (or supplied) box, this box would be transported by race management from one start/finish to the next. Standard boxes allow for easy packing and transport. This would also require race management to supply fuel or have the route pass near to gas station (which is likely already), but with 5 gallon tanks you only have to fuel every 150 miles or so (thinking of my KTM 950). I think most riders would want race management to provide repatriation in case of breakdowns (rider not bike).
So is it worth it??? If this division attracts 5 riders at 1600 per entry that’s 8 grand. Assuming these riders would not have raced in other divisions the cost to set up the course is provided by other divisions. So the questions is can you rent an a 15 passenger van , supply a driver, and pay expenses from Mexicali to Cabo and back to the US. I think you can break even there but if you get anywhere up to 12 riders the other 7 are making you money… Over 12 I think you will have to add another van and add cost and complication but it is all still easy money. More importantly this is real dakar style of rally racing and I think is the spirit of your race.

I know I would be on the start line in this type of division.
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Old 01-03-2012, 05:05 PM   #38
Luke
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Weekend Hack View Post
Have you thought of a Malles Moto division? One rider, one motorcycle, one box… I know it would add some complication to the management logistics but it would open the race to those of us wanting to race but unable to support a chase team. This sort of racing could really attract adventure bikes and budget oriented riders. We show up with our supplies in a pre-determined size (or supplied) box, this box would be transported by race management from one start/finish to the next. Standard boxes allow for easy packing and transport. This would also require race management to supply fuel or have the route pass near to gas station (which is likely already), but with 5 gallon tanks you only have to fuel every 150 miles or so (thinking of my KTM 950). I think most riders would want race management to provide repatriation in case of breakdowns (rider not bike).
So is it worth it??? If this division attracts 5 riders at 1600 per entry that’s 8 grand. Assuming these riders would not have raced in other divisions the cost to set up the course is provided by other divisions. So the questions is can you rent an a 15 passenger van , supply a driver, and pay expenses from Mexicali to Cabo and back to the US. I think you can break even there but if you get anywhere up to 12 riders the other 7 are making you money… Over 12 I think you will have to add another van and add cost and complication but it is all still easy money. More importantly this is real dakar style of rally racing and I think is the spirit of your race.

I know I would be on the start line in this type of division.

My impression from last year was that the organizers are stretched pretty thin as it is.

There are already independent pit services available, between them and Pemex you're almost completely set for gas. You could get well beyond mailles-moto level service for four riders from one or two friends, a van and a trailer. It wouldn't cost very much, either; probably much less than going through the race organizers and have them renting vehicles and hiring help.
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Old 01-03-2012, 06:26 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baja-chris View Post
Hi guys, I'm the one to blame for the new rules.

Regards, and hoping I don't get beat up too bad for sticking my nose under this tent,
Chris Wilson
NORRA

Chris I have wanted to do this race but with my other bikes and the vintage rules I couldnt find the money to build one.. Thanks for opening it up.. Now I can race my prefered reliable 650. I would be listed in the adventure class actually if you had it. I can see some people wanting to do it on their 450x's but im sure you will still have all the vintage enthusiasts clas and then the rally oriented "adventure" class and then the I want to win at any cost class..

Count me to be in Mexicali and San Jose Del Cabo!

ps
great show on sunday.. and keep up on this site!
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Old 01-03-2012, 07:40 PM   #40
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Race against other 950s. That would be fun.
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Old 01-03-2012, 09:38 PM   #41
MexiHonkey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baja-chris View Post
Hi guys, I'm the one to blame for the new rules. This quoted post sums up what I was thinking with regard to the year cut offs. I think breaking them out by decade or some arbitrary year made less sense than attempting to break them out by fundamental performance capabilitites. Right or wrong, it's what I have for this year. There is no perfect way to group vinatge anything since each year the new bikes get a little better. I'm open to change for 2013 if the 2012 grouping does not work out for most riders.

Speaking of 2012, at the suggestion of one of you guys I am going to add some Adventrue Bike classes and would like your feedback. Thinking of adding two Adv classes, both requiring a 5 gal min sized tank. One for 700cc and up, the other for 699cc and under. Should there be three displacements for 5gal gas adv bikes? Dumb idea? Love it?

Regards, and hoping I don't get beat up too bad for sticking my nose under this tent,
Chris Wilson
NORRA
Hi Chris, Any changes to the navigation (like roll charts only, no gps) or thoughts on separating the cars & bikes?


Quote:
Originally Posted by drc42 View Post
Yeah, Dakar has me thinking about this more and more. My only concern is the logistics. Does the organization carry any equipment for you? Also, anybody know if there is an easy way to get myself and the bike back to Mexicali? (other than the obvious way of just riding back that is!).

Just wondering if it is even possible to do this by myself where I unload bike+gear in Mexicali and leave the van there.

Anybody here have a support truck that has room to handle 1 more bike (most importantly on the return back north) and wants to split expenses a bit more?
Give Baja Bound Moto a call. Fly in, they pick you up, you race worry free, fly home. They've supported the overall winning bike the last 2 years (2010 Tim Morton/Jonah Street, 2011 Gabriel Williams) + a handful of top finishers & class winners both years.
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Old 01-03-2012, 09:50 PM   #42
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THE ADV Class should be HUGE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Good Thinking !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 01-03-2012, 10:44 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by MexiHonkey View Post
Hi Chris, Any changes to the navigation (like roll charts only, no gps) or thoughts on separating the cars & bikes?
My understanding from NORRA's Ken Cameron who handles most of that stuff is that they want to slowly push to eliminate GPS, but it's going to be a while longer before that happens. The roadbooks will definately be in place. The past two years he's done the car roadbook, then I've taken that and translated it into the bike roadbook which more closely follows the roadbook format used in Dakar and other international cross-country rallys. I'm working with Ken to teach him how to improve the roadbook format so I don't have to translate and print them at the last minute again. He's talked about the possibility of making a small part of the course no-GPS (tracks in that area would be missing from the GPS file), but not sure if he'll try that yet.

I doubt much will be done to separate the cars from the bikes significantly. That's pretty hard to do with a limited organization, limited time to prepare the routes, and limited daylight. Plus, in this event alomst everyone is a bit more respectful towards other competitors than in most other mixed car/bike events.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MexiHonkey View Post
Give Baja Bound Moto a call.
Don't do that now. He's in South America crewing in Dakar for another two weeks.
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Old 01-04-2012, 06:38 AM   #44
drc42
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So, is a roadbook holder needed for this or just GPS? Been considering getting a roadbook just for practice, well that and the fact that I am a rally junkie and it would make my bike really cool

Considering the f2r one that RMS sells. Heard good things on it and it is priced better than the others.

Oh, and yes I sent mail to Tim Morton, but I don't expect a response as he is most certainly busy getting Neduro to the finish at Dakar

But I am now looking at getting my own bike out there now anyway so probably won't be renting.
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Old 01-04-2012, 10:33 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by MexiHonkey View Post
Hi Chris, Any changes to the navigation (like roll charts only, no gps) or thoughts on separating the cars & bikes?
On the topic of separating handlebars and steering wheels, I'd like to put as much gap as we can between them for the first Special on day 1. However we also want to start the steering wheels early enough so most can complete the days stages in daylight.

What I have in mind is to implement group starts by category for the handlebars (on SS 1, Day 1) to get them all down the road as soon as possible then leave a gap of an hour before the steering wheels start (which would go off one at a time on 1 minute intervals). Since the first special is only about 50 miles, and the nature of our event includes transit sections with a generous time allocation, it should reduce the amount of car/bike interaction during the specials (for example, if you have a car staging behind a bike for one of the specials, then that car has caught the bike so why not let the car start first and let his dust clear before the bike stages since there is no time penalty for doing so.)

On the topic of Dakar style rally notes, I've discussed this with Ken and I'd like to talk with Scott (Whitney) and Ken about doing more in this area. Scott, what is the best way to contact you privately?
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