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Old 02-05-2012, 04:01 AM   #14581
JMo (& piglet)
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Originally Posted by Myway View Post
I still wondering about the sharp edges onbase plat/box for the gps. Too high and............
By the photo, I'd say the GPS/Iritrack combo on that bike looks clunky because it is a hybrid of the old and new systems - the GPS is the new MKII version (with build in Sentinel), but the cradle and the Iritrack unit (which formed part of the old 'GPS DUO') is the previous [larger] design, in the original cradle - with some additional brackets to hold the new MKII GPS above - weird, but presumably the rider didn't have the new cradle fitted and/or nowhere else to mount the Iritrack?

It's interesting that a number of the [top] riders (who typically are KTM mounted) tend to separate the Iritrack from the GPS nowadays - with the GPS positioned on the bars, and the Irritrack mounted elsewhere on the bike - I understand the old 690s used to have a compartment in the tail that could hold the Irritrack, although the weight of it bouncing that far out back used to loosen things/snap the rear fender (maybe that was just paddock talk?)... alternatively I guess the Irritrack part could always be mounted behind the fairing on the Nav tower for example - particularly as there is no separate Sentinel now - although of course the Iritrack unit is far larger than the original Sentinel was...

I had always presumed they also redesigned/made smaller the Irritrack along with the GPS MKII unit, so they could both be clipped together in a bar cradle like the previous version, just smaller? - can anyone confirm if this is the case?

Jxx
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Old 02-06-2012, 03:15 AM   #14582
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I was wondering if Gordon managed to have his DQ overturned?

At the time of the DQ it was said that it would be decided upon two weeks later in Paris, but I cannot find anything on that.
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Old 02-06-2012, 10:28 AM   #14583
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Originally Posted by Bluebull2007 View Post
I was also confused by that, maybe it was his rear suspension rebounding, it looked like he absorbed some of the impact in the initial jolt but the momentum carried him straight over the bars.

I concluded it was that same thing that took our Cody and ...who was that other French guy the next day, also on camera, straight over the bars on some level ground.

All three incidents worry me a lot: How did they happen? Surely the suspensions on all three bikes were setup perfectly?
IMO, this crash is pretty unique to rally the most common way to fall down.

I think (but am far from certain) it comes from a few variables.

1) More weight on the rear subframe from fuel than in any other application
2) The requirement to retain a reasonably fast rebound and soft-ish spring to deal with terrain
3) The frequency of hitting bumps of relatively unknown character

My experience was, you'd hit stuff that didn't seem noteworthy and get a big buck from the rear end, especially with a full rear tank. In my situation, easily dealt with- slow down. For the fast guys, more tricky.

In addition, the roadbook doesn't always make clear whether the hazard is called out for cars or bikes, so it's easy to over-slow for a bunch of double exclamation points that are primarily car issues, decide to adjust your speed up, and then catch one that applies to both cars and bikes equally.

There were craters from people hitting hard beyond some situations like that, not necessarily crashing, but you could see where they'd gotten bucked hard and then touched back down.

In most forms of racing, corners are where people fall down. In Dakar, it seemed the main hazard straight line bumps.



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Old 02-06-2012, 10:31 AM   #14584
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Originally Posted by JMo (& piglet) View Post
I had always presumed they also redesigned/made smaller the Irritrack along with the GPS MKII unit, so they could both be clipped together in a bar cradle like the previous version, just smaller? - can anyone confirm if this is the case?
It is not the case. Same unit as in years past. Caught a lot of us by surprise around November 1 when documentation first came out.

The setup shown uses the old 6 button TT mount with a kind of bodged-on GPS mount above. Lots of folks used it, but the assembly was about 15cm high- not ideal.

IMO, plan on making a home for the Iritrack either behind the fairing or somewhere else, KTM factory and Jonah put it inside the seat. It weighs a fair deal, so getting it down central would be nice.
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Old 02-06-2012, 11:04 AM   #14585
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http://www.n69s54a.com/2012/dakar-rally
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Old 02-06-2012, 11:10 AM   #14586
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Originally Posted by Myway View Post
Good stuff.
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Old 02-06-2012, 12:35 PM   #14587
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neduro View Post
IMO, this crash is pretty unique to rally the most common way to fall down.

I think (but am far from certain) it comes from a few variables.

1) More weight on the rear subframe from fuel than in any other application
2) The requirement to retain a reasonably fast rebound and soft-ish spring to deal with terrain
3) The frequency of hitting bumps of relatively unknown character

My experience was, you'd hit stuff that didn't seem noteworthy and get a big buck from the rear end, especially with a full rear tank. In my situation, easily dealt with- slow down. For the fast guys, more tricky.

In addition, the roadbook doesn't always make clear whether the hazard is called out for cars or bikes, so it's easy to over-slow for a bunch of double exclamation points that are primarily car issues, decide to adjust your speed up, and then catch one that applies to both cars and bikes equally.

There were craters from people hitting hard beyond some situations like that, not necessarily crashing, but you could see where they'd gotten bucked hard and then touched back down.

In most forms of racing, corners are where people fall down. In Dakar, it seemed the main hazard straight line bumps.



Hi Neil!
Hi Ned

Hope you have not been hit too hard by the post rally blues. So...you going back next year?

Thanks for your insight & feedback on this question.

Now that you mention the fuel (I forgot about that), it seems to make more sense. Looking at video of Cody's horrific crash, it does seem like the rear fuel may have had a major contributing factor. Poor old Quinn seemed mightily surprised that he crashed too.

I noticed today in my riding, that sometimes when I hit a step/bump/hump/rock about 20cm high + the front absorbs it fine but often the back rebounds, kicking up and causing the seat to hit me in the ass after the effect - fine on an unloaded enduro because standing you can absorb that energy, but totally NOT fine if you have a lot of weight on the back because it could be enough to carry you over the bars!

With this in mind, I'm now curious, did you unload the fuel weight on the back first on your Dakar, or did you do something different?

I still have two great video interviews of you out on Stage 11 (one at the refuel) and one just after the Stage 12 ASS. You graphically described the gnarly downhill, I'll see if i can upload them later today.
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Old 02-06-2012, 01:44 PM   #14588
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/nomadco...7628611250255/

do you already have seen this one
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Old 02-06-2012, 02:41 PM   #14589
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Old 02-07-2012, 05:07 AM   #14590
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neduro View Post
It is not the case. Same unit as in years past. Caught a lot of us by surprise around November 1 when documentation first came out...

...IMO, plan on making a home for the Iritrack either behind the fairing or somewhere else, KTM factory and Jonah put it inside the seat. It weighs a fair deal, so getting it down central would be nice.
Magic stuff Ned - thanks for the info.

I presumed that is was the case (or that ERTF had run out of 'new style' Iritracks or something!) - like you say, the top teams usually mount the Iritrack elsewhere anyway, so I'm sure are more than happy with the new smaller GPS and combined Sentinel.

I'll plan for stashing the Iritrack somewhere else then (under the seat sounds like a good idea) and hope that they actually redesign it for 2013 - the Duo system was pretty neat in my opinion, even if it did add weight to the bars...

It is interesting that the E-track device that we used on the Heroes-Legend rally (same principle, just without the two-way comms) is significantly smaller than the clunky old Iritrack unit - more the size of battery for MTB lights for example.



You'd think that if ERTF have redesigned the GPS to be smaller on the basis that the trend now is to mount the Iritrack elsewhere, they would make the Iritrack smaller too?

I'll keep an eye out for any info updates this year... but will factor in a separate mounting position for the Iritrack if possible... if nothing else, I can stash some sandwiches there!

Jxx
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Old 02-07-2012, 10:45 PM   #14591
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I put together this compilation of spectator video on Robby Gordon/Johnny Campbell.

Spectator video is great and I noticed a few things after watching a lot of it:

1. If a Mini raced by there would be a small cheer from the crowd. When RG/JC appeared on the horizon the crowds would really get excited. I don't speak Spanish, but you constantly hear "A ver! A ver! A ver!" (which I assume means "Look! Look! Look!), and frequently heard the word "Loco" as Robby would drive by.

2. The sounds humans make when experiencing an exciting rush of adrenaline is universal.

3. Apparently seeing nearby groups enveloped in clouds of dust kicked up by the Hummer never stops being funny.



Best parts of this video:

A. At about the 2-3 minute mark there's great footage of the Hummer flying like a bat out of hell close by spectators (the Copiapo stage).

B. The spectator's reaction to the Hummer crashing is really entertaining. It's right and wrong in all the right ways. As people rush to the hummer sitting on it's roof, a guy makes sure to get his smiling face in his video. Eventually the people push start the Hummer, and a some guy exults in the common man helping in the Dakar.

C. A little after the 15 minute mark is some spectator video of Gordon passing and spraying that Mini. Too perfect.


Video from the spectators is awesome because you catch a lot of the energy of their experience. When you watch the crash, consider the difference between what you experienced watching it on Eurosport (which I thought had good coverage this year) versus the experience from the spectator point of view. (Did Eurosport or NBC show the group fleeing from Gineil's Toyota?) That whole scene was brilliant!




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Old 02-08-2012, 03:21 AM   #14592
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Originally Posted by Dread Pendragon View Post
I put together this compilation of spectator video on Robby Gordon/Johnny Campbell...
Awesome DP! - I didn't think I'd be able to watch over 17 minutes of amateur footage all in one hit like that - just goes to show what essential watching RG is!

And I reckon there is a Peruvian guy with a really nice orange garden shed somewhere...

Top stuff!

Jx
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Old 02-08-2012, 06:02 AM   #14593
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2012 the year of the endo

A friend of mine made an interesting observation of this years SBS telecast. It appears that this year the 'endo' over the bars type fall was more prevalent than in previous years.

Could it be that this is as a result of ALL the field being on 450cc motos and the characteristic that they would lack: the torque of larger capacity engines to be able to loft the front wheel more readily over objects that catch the front wheel of the 450 cc motos?

Be interested to hear from riders on this perspective. Could it be that the lowered capacity increases injury risk? If you have a 450 tapped out there would be less to 'loft' with than on larger capacity engines. Trouble is you could also be going faster with the larger engine.

Interesting observation however you look at it.

Cheers
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Old 02-08-2012, 06:55 AM   #14594
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What happend? The footrests vertical movement during the ride is higher as in the past. And reached more often the critical point, where the body can not balance it out, ( this point is faster reached when you are tired) so there must be a system in the footrest to balance out the vertical movement when you reached the critical zone, and drop the footrests for a few cm. The shockmovement interact with the footrestmovement.

I am discribing a new innovative safety product on the bike, from this day on the thought off a footrest vertical balancingsystem idea is mine. Would you like to develop it futher, just contact.
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Old 02-08-2012, 07:30 AM   #14595
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What happend? The footrests vertical movement during the ride is higher as in the past. And reached more often the critical point, where the body can not balance it out, ( this point is faster reached when you are tired) so there must be a system in the footrest to balance out the vertical movement when you reached the critical zone, and drop the footrests for a few cm. The shockmovement interact with the footrestmovement.

I am discribing a new innovative safety product on the bike, from this day on the thought off a footrest vertical balancingsystem idea is mine. Would you like to develop it futher, just contact.
That's an interesting thought. Think of the movement of a pogo stick. Should the rear wheel suddenly be forced upward (which seems to be the case in some of these endo's) some verticle 'give' in the footpegs could absorb additional movement. Of course being seated would negate that as would any movement that moves the feet too close to the ground (thinking of a fully compressed rear suspension and more specifically, Quinn Cody's crash).

It was mentioned here a few times although I don't have the experience to verify that traveling faster may have actually helping in preventing some of the crashes we saw.
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