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Old 03-09-2012, 12:45 PM   #91
Feedback Cycle OP
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I took the rig out for the first ride! It is officially a HACK!

Photobucket

And I have to say.... (and remember I've owned a BMW R60 Hack) this is without a doubt, the crappiest handling rig ever built! But, I know it can be fixed. I tried not to expect too much but who doesn't dream of getting on it and tooling down the road?

Anyhow, it shakes it's head and I don't mean a little at 25mph. I mean it shakes it's head so violently that it could throw me.
Sometimes, if I carefully shift to second, I might be able to get to 30-35 tops before it kicks in and then there is NOTHING I can do but stop.

I've adjusted the lean and toe in but little affect. I think that since it is a sport bike, it's trail is not the best.
I'm looking into a front end swap, leading leg or leading link (Dang they are nice to ride with)

Photobucket

As for my mounts (specifically the upper rear) I struggled quite a while. Run a bar across? Put it on angle to the back? It ruins my storage area. Finally, I decided to put a support directly down to a cross member on the frame. It cuts a little into the storage but it is strong and gives the mount good triangulation. I plan to add additional supports/gussets.

I'm sure some are wondering why I have short struts? Many people would run them all the way to the frame. I may want to enclose the sidecar more and I didn't want a adjustable rod wiggling through my side panels. This way it is fixed near the sidecar and I can weld to it if needed.

An note about the bike. No complaints about power. The bike doesn't even know it is there. It's a beast.
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Old 03-10-2012, 09:23 AM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Feedback Cycle View Post

I took the rig out for the first ride! It is officially a HACK!



And I have to say.... (and remember I've owned a BMW R60 Hack) this is without a doubt, the crappiest handling rig ever built! But, I know it can be fixed. I tried not to expect too much but who doesn't dream of getting on it and tooling down the road?

Anyhow, it shakes it's head and I don't mean a little at 25mph. I mean it shakes it's head so violently that it could throw me.
Sometimes, if I carefully shift to second, I might be able to get to 30-35 tops before it kicks in and then there is NOTHING I can do but stop.

I've adjusted the lean and toe in but little affect. I think that since it is a sport bike, it's trail is not the best.
I'm looking into a front end swap, leading leg or leading link (Dang they are nice to ride with)



As for my mounts (specifically the upper rear) I struggled quite a while. Run a bar across? Put it on angle to the back? It ruins my storage area. Finally, I decided to put a support directly down to a cross member on the frame. It cuts a little into the storage but it is strong and gives the mount good triangulation. I plan to add additional supports/gussets.

I'm sure some are wondering why I have short struts? Many people would run them all the way to the frame. I may want to enclose the sidecar more and I didn't want a adjustable rod wiggling through my side panels. This way it is fixed near the sidecar and I can weld to it if needed.

An note about the bike. No complaints about power. The bike doesn't even know it is there. It's a beast.



Well done, that's looking great.

Thinking about the steering issue. Have you tried adjusting the rear shocks? I noticed that adjusting the preload on my rear shock made a whole load of difference to the way the rig steered and the amount of wobble through the bars. Try softening them up, it could reduce the trail just enough (lowering the back of the bike) on the forks to make a little difference. Also, as an experiment you could push the fork stantions halfway down through the yokes (no more than that though and only as an expreiment). This will effectively raise the front and reduce the trail very slightly, or a little more if done with lowering the rear, but enough to give you an idea of how much you need to push the front axel forward.

Another thing you can try is tyre pressures. Add pressure to the hack tyre to reduce it's footprint. It's very wide compared to the tug tyres and could be having an influence on the front tyre. Lower the pressure in the front. This will put more tread on the road and give extra grip which will greate a little more dominance of the steering wheel over the hack wheel.

One final thought on reducing the trail is to fit a car wheel to the rear instead of the OE wheel. This will also lower the rear end and in turn reduce the trail on the forks. Might be a bit expensive and a pig to do this mod, though it could be cheeper than LLs?????

This is a great build thread, very intersting to see all the issues and alterations etc that have to be gone through to reach the desiered result.


Val.
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Old 03-10-2012, 09:52 AM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by val. h. View Post

Thinking about the steering issue. Have you tried adjusting the rear shocks? I noticed that adjusting the preload on my rear shock made a whole load of difference to the way the rig steered and the amount of wobble through the bars. Try softening them up, it could reduce the trail just enough (lowering the back of the bike) on the forks to make a little difference. Also, as an experiment you could push the fork stantions halfway down through the yokes (no more than that though and only as an expreiment). This will effectively raise the front and reduce the trail very slightly, or a little more if done with lowering the rear, but enough to give you an idea of how much you need to push the front axel forward.

* snip *

One final thought on reducing the trail is to fit a car wheel to the rear instead of the OE wheel. This will also lower the rear end and in turn reduce the trail on the forks. Might be a bit expensive and a pig to do this mod, though it could be cheeper than LLs?????

Val.

Pssst ... all that will increase trail




.




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Old 03-10-2012, 09:54 AM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by val. h. View Post
Well done, that's looking great.

One final thought on reducing the trail is to fit a car wheel to the rear instead of the OE wheel. This will also lower the rear end and in turn reduce the trail on the forks. Might be a bit expensive and a pig to do this mod, though it could be cheeper than LLs?????

This is a great build thread, very intersting to see all the issues and alterations etc that have to be gone through to reach the desiered result.


Val.
Wouldn't you need to lift the rear to reduce the trail....
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Old 03-10-2012, 03:53 PM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete-NZ View Post
Wouldn't you need to lift the rear to reduce the trail....

OOOOPS Yep! You're right. What tw*t wrote that!

Right! Take what I wrote before and do everything backwards. Slide the stantions down, put a bigger wheel on the back.............................................. ..

Forgive me sir I have my sums upside down.


However: When I bought my rig, the rear shock was blown, which gave it a very soft rear end. When I wound up the preload to compensate for this the steering gained much more wobble. Lifting the rear increased steering wobble issues. Lowering the rear solved them.

So maybe what I should have said above is that the trail will be increased rather than reduced. Solved the problem of the wobbly steering though. Unfortunately it won't make it any lighter.


Val.
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Old 03-10-2012, 04:26 PM   #96
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Ha! Dang if that trail vs rake doesn't get everyone everytime
I had done it in a separate post.


Val, thanks for the info. I agree with all of it. Tire pressure is an easy start. I don't think the forks can go any lower in the clamps (taller front)
I might try strapping the rear of the bike and the sidecar down just to see if the little adjustment helps. Hard tail anyone?

I ordered a steering dampner last night (and a fork clamp). It should be here in a few days. I think if I can stop the shack from feeding back and growing exponentially, I could likely get past the bad spot and get to speed. We'll see.

I've been working on the front. I will post some new pictures soon.
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Old 03-10-2012, 06:30 PM   #97
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Continued...

Well guess who has a front end design. This guy.

I struggled with so many designs but in the end, I wanted a sit straight up, easy climb on and off design. I plan to add sheet metal. I've only tacked it in place.

Photobucket

I've tried various curves but I actually like the hard edges more. I plan to add various grab handles/bars for the rally look and it will soften some of the corners.

Photobucket

I have it flair out near the top to mimic the frame shape. I'm happy with it.
Photobucket

Now, for some test items (They may be returned if I don't like them). I have a seat and a trailer tongue box. I've decide that in general, the hack was going to be very open except for the front. Due to the large width, it is mounted tight to the bike with little foot room.

But, I also MUST have a box to put my gear and stuff in. I found this box at Harbor Freight. It was about $90 with a coupon! this box has angles that can accommodate the shock assembly AND leave room for the passenger boot. It is however a bit close to the rider (me) so I might need to modify it.
I think I can work a little magic to make it 'fit' a little better and look 'custom'

The area behind the box would be set up with tie downs and serve as my 'pickup' area.

Photobucket

The seats (the store only had one but I would eventually have two) would mount directly to the top of the box. The whole unit can open and pivot the seats forward. The seats are made for a backhoe and are heavy duty metal pans and good foam. A bit 'lawn mower' ish thought. I might add a bar frame ou. The best part is that they are a slim 15" wide. This allows me to have two side-by-side for a bench for any larger riders.r something to make them look racier. Hmm. Still thinking.
Photobucket

Finally, the whole unit will be able to unbolted from withing the box, rotated and stored perfectly in the nose area if I find I need to haul some bales of hay, or furniture, or gold. I could just remove the seats and box entirely.

Nothing is certain.
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Old 03-10-2012, 07:18 PM   #98
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Been keeping my eye on this build...
Turning out quite nice...
Is there mods to the bike planed at a later stage ?
As you are building a endruo style car on the side of
a 100% road orointated bike..

I have a XT660R endruo build in the planing stage.
Just can't deside between a fixed or leaning unit..
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Old 03-11-2012, 07:13 AM   #99
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Hey Pete

Answer... I don't know. Every time I think I have a plan, something changes the game.

Here is my current plan.

Purpose
1. Daily solo riding for errands and fun. The 'style' will be inspired by many enduro features but mainly from the style of the bike. Grab handles and bars, nearly flat front. Upright seating. These are functional features that will be useful in daily use. The bike is a UJM and is very practical. Their will be vintage race inspiration. I plan to add a small 'ski'. maybe a covered wheel. Not sure yet. I just don't want it to be the unusable Jawa/velorex sidecar I had before. Hard to get in/out. Too light. Way too low for the passenger. All it had was style.

2. Utility: The rig must be able to HAUL stuff. Big and little. If I come across something cool at a garage sale or need some straw, I want to be able to carry it. I want multiple tie downs everywhere.

3. Short jaunts with my wife. BUT, she likes to ride behind me. Not in the chair. But, I want to have storage to hold our helmets and a pair of shoes so we don't have to walk around the town all dressed in leather.

4. Carry the family now and then for very short rides. (to the movies or ice cream) I hope to be able to carry four safely.

5. Sporting. Yeah this is a reach but I still want it to move. I want to be able to cruise at 80mph solo! If I need to run the expressway and want to be able to handle a corner with some speed. Stopping would be good also.

6. I will likely need to modify the steering (I have a stabilizer coming) but maybe a leading leg? or leading link? Fork swap? less costly the better.

7. I plan to add graphics to unite the bike with sidecar. Likely a theme on the original GPz graphics but different colors, etc.

Thanks!
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Old 03-11-2012, 05:58 PM   #100
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Continued...

Well, the black box and the seat just aren't doing it for me. They're going back.
Besides, for the two seats and the box, it was $300. That's a lot of steel

I need to have custom. I decided to build the box and the seat. That way, I get a cohesive look to the whole sidecar.

Sorry for the blur. Couldn't find the tripod adapter.

Photobucket

I am framing in my box. I want the thick tube to show. The cushion seat will set within. It is rounded so I think it will be comfortable. I have an additional bar over the tire. Considering having support bolsters that widen the sitting area.

I will use sheet metal to box the base. I want to bolt it down from within so I can remove it if desired.

Photobucket

Now, I was also considering a folding back rest. I like the mechanism used on these beach chairs. I might use their geometry. My goal is to be able to close the seat and have a tough surface for carrying items and not risk tearing my seats.

Photobucket

Photobucket

Final thought. I would have a couple bolting locations so that I could turn the box if desired.
Photobucket

Peace all.
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Old 03-14-2012, 06:06 PM   #101
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Best day ever!


Today, it all became worth it. I was seriously wondering if I was going to pull this off. Sure I could make it look decent but was it actually going to be rideable?

I received my fork clamp and my VW steering dampner (about $100 total for both delivered) I was so anxious to see if it helped reduce the head shake. Would it be too hard to steer? Would I need a whole different front end?

Bolted it up. Made sure it had full range of motion. Made sure it was perfectly leveraged to take full advantage of the dampning right off center. Moving it in the garage is a chore (but it was before). Turning extremely left or right from the driveway to the road requires some muscle. But under power.... Unbelievable! ABSOLUTELY NO HEADSHAKE WHATSOEVER!

I don't mean this 'sort of' worked... I mean this rig is tight! I can't believe how perfectly it is set up. It tracks so true. I can even swerve! I can brake HARD. I honestly never expected that. When I brake, it doesn't dive or try to come around. It squats down and stops. I have a functioning 'yet unpolished' rig.

Photobucket

Photobucket

Photobucket

I cut out the floor (it had been previously roughed out). It was trimmed soo small that I can't get screws around the edges. I tack welded it in place for now.

Photobucket

I rode it to get fuel at the local stop. It was dark out. I no sooner finished filling up and the owner came out to ask me about it. I herar that happens often with a hack. If it gets tiresome, I may need to carry some jerry cans
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Old 03-15-2012, 06:19 PM   #102
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Small update

I welded in a few gussets near the bottom mounts.
I keep getting the hebie jeebies when I think about the chance a weld could break at speed.

I put two 5gl buckets on the sidecar today (about 70lbs) It definitely helped the sidecar shock mellow out with some weight.

New steering impressions.
It is nice on a relatively straight road but turning is massively heavy. The wheel wants to go straight and turning onto a side road at 40pmh requires all my strength. (This is why people put on leading links) I think I can do a few mods to help. I think I will consider wider bars and moving them closer. My old hack had super wide bars. It was like pushing a wheelbarrow.

I find myself pointing and shooting. If I am in a parking lot, instead of making a gentle arc, I turn, then blast straight.

I've been working on the fender and considering some color combos.
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Old 03-17-2012, 04:22 PM   #103
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Continued...

Ran some errands today.
Picked up some lumber. Not really set up for hauling yet. The steel tube is to large for my hooks.

Photobucket

I have two mounting locations on my steering stabilizer. Moved to the inner one. Steering is lighter with no head shake.
Even though the bike is true, load it and the bike pulls. Adjust it and then you come to a crowned road and you have a new set of problems.

Today I awoke to some seriously sore arms and back. Driving a hack really uses some muscle. The gyroscopic effect of a wheel is nearly impossible to overcome (on a standard bike, you lean and only actually turn at slow speeds).

I am designing a extension to bolt to my left handlebar. I always need my right on the throttle and brake but the left could use a better grab handle like I've seen on ice racing sidecars. It could look cool and be functional.

Cosmetically, the hack looks rough. My welds are like bird shit. I've been grinding and re-welding. I've really messed up my floor. First I tried to screw/rivet but I didn't have enough sheet metal. I tack welded only to burn holes. So I welded the entire edge and it is fantastically wrong. I ground some of it smooth but the edges look like a Pollock painting.

Finially, I have been toying with a 'ski' for the lack of a better word. The corner of my hack is low and sharp. It could easily catch on something. I have a welded bracked that I will attach a shaped wooded board that can drag should I bottom out (like entering my driveway while turning right. Looks like an ankle cutter
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Old 03-17-2012, 05:31 PM   #104
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I put a bar end off of a mountain bike on my left handle bar,it helped alot.!!!
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Old 03-17-2012, 05:33 PM   #105
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You should build a set of LEADING LEGS for it,they make it like power steering.!!
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