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Old 01-04-2012, 08:41 PM   #16
Gluaisrothaí
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Page 2 of TB0804

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Old 01-04-2012, 08:45 PM   #17
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If one simply tightens the bolts, it seems intuitively like you might actually be breaking loose a loctited situation and actually making it MORE susceptible to oil infiltration and coming loose after the adjustment. This is pure speculation on my part, but I would think torque should properly be applied with wet loctite on clean bolts in clean holes. Then the loctite tightens up and cements them in place at the proper torque. Could be talking out of my ass, but maybe a mechanic could chime in?

EDIT: well the Service Bulletin just posted proves that yes, I am talking out of my ass. Thanks! Oh and BTW, glad to know Loctite not necessary. Thanks, Gluaisrothai!

SFKLR screwed with this post 01-04-2012 at 08:52 PM
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Old 01-04-2012, 10:50 PM   #18
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I've never seen these bolts loosen up. This design is the same on all bikes since the 60's. None were ever loctited. If these are a little loose, the spring could slowly twist them out, I guess.

I wonder what's different about this bike? Bolts just not tight to start with?

The new formula for the blue loctite #243? is 'oil tolerant' which means you don't have to get it spotless. Usually, just a squirt of carb cleaner and a puff of air will prep it.

Guess I'll have to start checking these.
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Old 01-04-2012, 11:53 PM   #19
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Back when that happened to Paochow i checked mine on my 07 and found several not torqued to spec. I also had the loctite, no loctite question. Just didn't make sense to try to put loctite in oil filled holes. I found enough blue chucks on the screens on the first oil change. I did checked them this spring and all were still at the proper torque.

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Dusty screwed with this post 01-05-2012 at 12:36 AM
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Old 01-05-2012, 02:56 AM   #20
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KTM Replies - And the love is gone

KTM have replied..... and as some of you have suggested, they are unwilling to assist in the repair. No offer of assistance of any kind, although they did "think long and hard about the failure" .

I posed the question "What I might have done as a user to prevent this failure" but no answer was provided by KTM.

If a product is used in accordance with manufacturer’s guidelines and maintenance schedules, then you can expect it to perform without catastrophic failure. I think this is a fair and reasonable statement.

The clutch failure is not a wear and tear issue or due to the bike's age. The bike has 25,000km on it and it has always been serviced at a KTM dealer. I have a lot of mechanical sympathy with my bikes. My daily commute has 90,000km on the original clutch and is often riden with a pillion. Its a 250cc Honda, so imagine the amount of clutch work that gets 2up in traffic.

I tried to get KTM to classify this problem as either a design fault, manufacturing fault or servicing fault.

The bolts in the factory may of had an incorrect torque applied 6Nm. The Technical Bulletin was issued to address this. So it is not a manufacturing fault as my bike had the TB applied and the remaining bolts were torques to 10Nm.

So is it a design fault? Well KTM say not but then also stated that the bolts should be checked every 15000km. Is this a way to manage an in service issue with a maintenance schedule? Why check them if there is no problem? Perhaps.

Is it a servicing fault. Well this one is hard to decipher. The dealer who applied the TB is now no longer operating but as I said the remaining bolts did have 10Nm of torque + blue loctite. Why the loctite was applied is not clear, as it is not instructed in the bulletin. The bike did also have a 15000km service but in Santiago, Chile at a KTM dealer. It is unlikely that they checked these bolts though. But take a guess at my chances of getting a dealer in Chile to pay for my repair in Australia? KTM head office are unwilling to act as intermediary in this respect.

So where does this all end up. Well I have to question the value of getting it service by KTM dealers when they are not backed by the manufacturer. I may end up paying the $2500 for the repair of the bike and carry on with a little less respect for the KTM brand.

I will aim to set up a system which is more reliable though. I am less inclined to put the same parts back into the bike. So I am looking for an after market clutch. This would remove the bolts and KTM parts from the equation completely. I have looked at the Rekluse clutch and there is a new model available in Feb. I have heard good stories about them backing their products if they fail unexpectedly. Unfortunately Rekluse clutch still uses most of the KTM parts including the bolts and pressure plate. Are there any suggestions for an aftermarket clutch (including basket)???
I have looked and come up with nothing (I don’t want a slipper clutch).

It may be that I have few alternatives other than to pay for a KTM OEM clutch. I did like the idea of the transparent clutch cover though, so you can regularly monitor the bolts. It just hurts to pass money over when I did everything required by their guidelines I guess.



Anyway, hopefully this will be useful to other KTM LC8 riders and just make sure you check those bolts regularly.
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Old 01-05-2012, 03:47 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrisgray View Post
Unfortunately Rekluse clutch still uses most of the KTM parts including the bolts and pressure plate.
I have never personally seen a Rekluse kit specifically for the 990 however I have fitted a few on enduro bikes, KTM Honda and Kawasaki and they all discard the oem pressure plate, springs and bolts ect. because that is exactly the principle of the centifugal clutch which is to discard the spring pressure if favour of centifugal ramped pressure.

I'd be surprised if your statement is correct.

Dont you think that if your issues were as serious as you seem to be worried about that we'd all be at home fixing our clutches and noone would be out doing awesome long distance adventures that these bikes are renouned for.

You have just had bad luck.

Just replace the damaged parts, do a few quick oil/filter changes and keep riding. The majority of 9*0 owners would have never heard of this issue and plenty of them have over 100000km on them.

The smile will return

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Old 01-05-2012, 04:27 AM   #22
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Excuse me for the dumb question, but how does this all sum up to $2500?
A new pressure plate is about $80 and a new clutch outside cover (if it's toast) is also about $80.. Changing the oil 3 times, to get most of the particles out of the engine would be let's say.. $400 - but then you are using motorex.. So $600 total. Okay, if the basket is shot, that's another $4-500, and you may want to buy some new plates as well.. so the whole thing shouldn't be more than $1000 +- $200..
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Sumi screwed with this post 01-05-2012 at 04:34 AM
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Old 01-05-2012, 07:34 AM   #23
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Excuse me for the dumb question, but how does this all sum up to $2500?
A new pressure plate is about $80 and a new clutch outside cover (if it's toast) is also about $80.. Changing the oil 3 times, to get most of the particles out of the engine would be let's say.. $400 - but then you are using motorex.. So $600 total. Okay, if the basket is shot, that's another $4-500, and you may want to buy some new plates as well.. so the whole thing shouldn't be more than $1000 +- $200..
He is quoting Australian $$$. Probably only $100 in real money.
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Old 01-05-2012, 09:49 AM   #24
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Go piss at your dealer, not the OC and not KTM.

The mech who performed the last clutch service (or TB) is the only one to blame.
Did not perform is probably more acurate.
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Old 01-05-2012, 10:02 AM   #25
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My 04S has about 55k on it,Just serviced my bike myself and the clutch still looked new,No loose bolts.
I would say fix it yourself and save big.
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Old 01-05-2012, 12:29 PM   #26
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I have had a "mate" ride my fully laden full knobbied 990 up rock steps as if it were a two stroke, dropping the clutch and other general abuse.
All the fibre plates shattered into a 100 pieces losing all drive 100 kms from anywhere. Even that did not cost anywhere near $2500 and was repaired easily at the side of the road.
Do it yourself and be prepared for next time. I have never used loctite in the 990 clutch bolts and have not had any issues.

There is a certain order and placement of plates - so reference to the manual is advised.
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Old 01-05-2012, 01:22 PM   #27
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He is quoting Australian $$$. Probably only $100 in real money.
Must be a couple of years since you checked the exchange rate.
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Old 01-05-2012, 03:55 PM   #28
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How the Costs Stack up

The clutch basket was destroyed as well as cracking the clutch cover. I don't think it would have been ridable even after removing the bolt without risking severe scaring of the clutch caseing and destroying the odd gear tooth. There were large chunks of metal floating around in the clutch from the basket.

The costs stack up as below.
10% tax is added to the below prices and then another $500 for labour. On top, is the oil and filters. Most of the items seem to be comparable with the prices in the US except the clutch Hub assembly (you cannot buy the basket on its own).This can be obtained in the US for $473 USD. In Oz its is $879 AUD. The exchange rate is roughly 1:1.

And I now agree that it is better to service the bike yourself. No value / safe guard is obtained by getting a KTM dealer to service it.Failure rates are based around probability. It is up to the manufacturer to determine what is an acceptable failure rate. It sounds like an isolated incident based on current experience out there. Perhaps it is just bad luck. But in case it isn't, I hope these posts provide enough deatil for anyone experiencing this type of failure in the future.
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Old 01-05-2012, 04:11 PM   #29
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It sucks it happened.

We'll all check ours I'm sure, though many of us are aware of this TB/SB it helps motivate you when you see what kind of havoc it can cause.

As Geomatrician indicated it is a maintenance item. If your dealer indicated they performed the recommended maintenance on an invoice you may want to go to them instead of KTM. As they may or may not have completed However, its more likely the only maintenance that was performed on the bike by the dealer was at your direction and if you didn't ask them to then there is nothing you can do but pay the bill and move forward.

Catastrophic failures happen on all makes and models, its not a KTM specific thing and the bike is as the others have indicated 5 years old.

Go for the Rekluse CORE EXP.
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Old 01-05-2012, 04:16 PM   #30
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TBs and Servicing Defects - How do you resolve it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by StevenD View Post
Go piss at your dealer, not the OC and not KTM.

The mech who performed the last clutch service (or TB) is the only one to blame.
Did not perform is probably more acurate.
Steve - Read my earlier post. The Dealer who performed the TB is no longer operating. The Dealer who performed the 15000km service speaks Spanish and is located in Santiago Chile. Do you really think they will care, given that I am in Australia? These bikes are made for international touring but the KTM support network doesn't acknowledge that. If as you say that the dealer in Chile is who is at fault, then KTM should act as intermediary. I have zero leverage of the Chilean dealer where as KTM do. KTM are unwilling to act as intermediary.
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