New local MC clothing company-Ballistech

[thump_co]

I second grey/black. Matches anything.

I'd look at keeping a low pricepoint. I destroyed 2 sets of pants in 2011, expect the same or more in 2012. I won't spend hundreds on Klim's just to watch them suffer the same fate when I can stock up on Fly's at closout for 70 bucks that work just about the same in most conditions.

Being the "high end" guys always sounds nice in theory, but it comes with lower volume, harder to get dealers to buy inventory and a lot more customer support/returns. Someone paying $70 will just live with a small defect, someone shelling out $500 wants everything perfect and will bitch if a zipper sticks 3 years down the road.

[COXR650L]

Originally Posted by thump_co

I second grey/black. Matches anything.

I'd look at keeping a low pricepoint. I destroyed 2 sets of pants in 2011, expect the same or more in 2012. I won't spend hundreds on Klim's just to watch them suffer the same fate when I can stock up on Fly's at closout for 70 bucks that work just about the same in most conditions.

Being the "high end" guys always sounds nice in theory, but it comes with lower volume, harder to get dealers to buy inventory and a lot more customer support/returns. Someone paying $70 will just live with a small defect, someone shelling out $500 wants everything perfect and will bitch if a zipper sticks 3 years down the road.

I know what you mean about burning through gear, I am the same way and that was one of my personal goals with this company was making something that will last year after year. And yes, I have torn up everything including the current "high end" gear.


However, for me at least, I dont want cheap gear. My experience is you get what you pay for and more often then not you end up paying more in the long run . In two years at $70 you have now spent $280 on cheap pants and all the cheap gear I have leaves a lot to be desired in addition to qualtity......I'll make you a deal, if our stuff last more than 2years you pay us the difference between the $280 and the cost of our pants. (Im just kidding with that remark)

Seriously though, this company and our products represent us and everything we do reflects that. We are putting a ton of work into this and want it to be something we can be proud of. Also something to consider, expensive gear is not cheap for anyone, manufacture included.


So, having said all that the price is dictated largely by the quality of the gear, however the price compared to what you are getting will be very reasonable.

I don’t want to lock into a specific price right now, but I can say it will be priced lower than comparable “high end” gear, think $165 range for the pants.

Thanks for all the comments so far....
ben

[thump_co]

Originally Posted by COXR650L

I don’t want to lock into a specific price right now, but I can say it will be priced lower than comparable “high end” gear, think $165 range for the pants.

That's a good range. I'd pay that for a good pant and be happy if it lasts a full season.

[Todd-Squad]

Let me expound on the leather for the inner leg. I wouldn't do the entire inside of the leg in leather. Just from the bottom of the cuff up to about an inch above the knee on both legs.

Re: pads or not. I primarily wear two different pairs of pants. Klim Dakar (no pads) for hard dirt ridding, where I wear my separate pads. And First Gear Mesh overpants with built in pads for Steet and light dual sport use. I liked the comment about not being all things to all people. It's ok if you go one way or the other for your first product, just make sure your next product offers an alternative option.

BMW seems to be the only gear maker out there who can successfully sell white/light tan ridding gear.

Re: Pockets: I agree with the earlier poster about not wanting cargo pockets on hard core dirt pants. They just snag on stuff. Big pockets are great as long as they don't puff out and grab stuff.

[toddler]

Good for you on jumping into this. The product looks great

My ideal pant. This is for dualsport riding and camping.

Take the current Klim Dakar pant and add the following.

1. Make it convertable, I like to wear shorts at the campsite or when walking around. I have a set of Fly pants that are convertable and it is awesome to have that option.
2. Keep it an outer shell, no padding. I want to pick the padding with extra clothing. Water resistant is okay.
3. Crotch ventilation. If it is hot I ride with my fly open. Oh what a feeling!
4. A belt for the waste, no velcro or stetchy stuff.
5. heat protection on both insides. I have bikes with pipes on both sides.

Go black or very dark for the color.

Best of luck to you.

[DigiSnap Mark]

The best money I've spent on motorcycling (besides the bikes) has been top of the line riding gear. I've an aerostich suit that's going strong after about 20 years and 60K miles.

I put everything I carry in the jacket... wallet in inside pocket, keys on the forearm (I've never landed on the top of my arm). Sunglasses are always a problem. I wear goggles when riding, but need sunglasses for walking around, so they get stuffed into a pocket, and generally crushed. Would love to have a soft pocket on the other forearm for glasses. Cell phone is always a problem. Would be nice to have something at the side waist... out of the way of chest protectors, but accessible.

The only thing I use pants pockets for are maps, and ocassionally a crushable hat or bandana. I'd sure appreciate thin (mesh) thigh-top pockets, but would prefer not to have any other pockets on the pants... they just make them thicker, hotter, bulkier.

Unlike the other comments, I'd love to see a light color. Black soaks in the sun, and shows dirt worse than any other color (yes even more than white)... take a look at cars driving around. Doesn't mean they will sell though... I've never understood the black thing. My blue aerostich has been washed maybe twice in 20 years, and looks good.

I'm not a big fan of leather either, but then again I ride four strokes, and the pipes are tucked in better. Leather, while supposedly breathable, isn't. I'd rather take my chances on melting on rare ocassions than deal with no air flow, even at the boots! Anything to get air flowing over hot boots is a plus.

[thump_co]

Originally Posted by toddler

4. A belt for the waste, no velcro or stetchy stuff.

^ +10. I hate pants that sag.

In fairness, I should interject that I crash a lot.. as in at least one laydown or getoff per riding day.. if not I feel disappointed I didn't push.. so my riding gear is also being judged as crashing gear.. scale my input accordingly.

[Geek]

Personal peeve: balloon pockets with the angles wrong. A horizontal opening when standing is a vertical opening when sitting. I lose stuff out of them. I'm the guy that's left the bright yellow goggle rags all over the state of colorado on various trails

When adventure riding, I won't use any pocket that isn't secure.

...fwiw.

[Geek]

re: colors

Adventure riding isn't motocross where you do laps of the track and then change back into your street clothes after you are done playing.

Discrete/all black pants work for me. I don't need to look like a flamboyant power ranger when i walk into a bar in BFE after a long day of exploring...we look bad enough with those big rings of dirt on our faces

[Geek]

Originally Posted by toddler

1. Make it convertable, i like to wear shorts at the campsite or when walking around. I have a set of fly pants that are convertable and it is awesome to have that option.

please don't make it convertable.. We don't want to see todd's pasty calves.

3. Crotch ventilation. If it is hot i ride with my fly open. Oh what a feeling!

please give it good crotch ventiliation. We don't want to see todd's pasty **** through his unzipped fly..

[Geek]

Personally.. water resistant doesn't cut it.

When I'm on a multiday ride and I get caught in a torrential Colorado afternoon thunderstorm.. I need to *know* I'm going to stay dry because these are the only pants I have for the next xx number of days.

...but perhaps I'm just having flashbacks to WestFest 08



p.s. I wish you great success in your en-devour!
From one entrepreneur to another: my hat is off to you for pursing your dreams.

[Sortarican]

Looking forward to your product release. Looks really good so far.

Regarding the pockets:
- Large enough opening to get into them without taking your gloves off.
- Water"proof" liner in pockets to protect electronics, wallet, etc.
- The leading edge of the fold could have velcro strip to avoid catching when not 'ballooned' full.

Some other points:
- Reflective piping or strips.
- Skip the armor but sew in pockets for standard CE type pads.
- To adress concerns about oversized vents compromising saftey in a get-off, secure the vents inside with a strip in the middle that would help prevent it from expanding past a certain point.
- Leather or double up on the material at the cuff where it tends to fray.
- Blacks, Greys, and Tans colors are great. You can always expand into all the factory colors for the fashion peacocks later if you get demand.

[gbmaz]

I will throw in my $.02 and ask a few questions as a new rider but long term outdoor industry salesperson/retail buyer/user.

-If you are just going to offer just one color in the pants go black, dark grey, or grey/black color block. While many of us don't care how we look, you are missing out on a lot of customers if you don't have a color that compliments common jerseys/jackets. Don't give the customer a reason not to buy your product. If it starts to sell then expand into lighter colors that are more functional for desert riding.

-Go for durable over water proof. I can dry off after an afternoon storm, it is a lot harder to fix a tear in the field. Your comments earlier about the durability of waterproof breathable fabrics was spot on. In a fairly saturated market (not that a lot of the stuff in the market isn’t crap) it will be difficult to get folks to drop $200+ on a product from an unknown company.

-Pockets for armor would be nice, with the option of buying the armor as an upgrade. Don’t forget about a pocket that accommodates decent hip armor.

-I second the comments about having the pants pockets big enough for standard size maps. A secure (zippered) water resistant pocket just big enough for an ID, credit card, and vehicle key/alarm fob would be great. Perhaps with a small piece of stiff foam between the key and wearer in case of a crash.

-On the bottom cuff include a provision for shortening the inseam length by folding up the bottom and securing with Velcro or snaps. Assuming it did not make the bottom way too thick it gives you a way to have a short length without requiring a second size. This would of course mean you would have to use something other than a zipper to close the cuff over your boot. Even if you just designed the cuff with the possibility of alteration in mind it would be helpful to shorter folks.

Where are you planning to have the pants produced?

It would be great to be able to buy a quality US made product. If you can’t build it here then try to keep it in the Americas. I would recommend not producing in China. Not because they can’t make a quality product, they can produce quality equal to anyone in the world (when that is requested). Avoid China because their labor market is fairly volatile (wages rising) and their domestic market has awakened.

When I talk to smaller apparel manufacturers at trade shows who produce in China price variability and late delivery is a big problem. The awakening of their domestic market means that a company looking to produce for the Chinese domestic market will come to a factory and offer more per garment and then will get priority. You are then stuck with offering more per garment or having your product ship late. Both will kill a small manufacturer.

If you start small and only sell direct (small store and online) you can have a product that cost more per unit to produce and still keep the price competitive. A pant selling for $160 could cost you $75-80 to produce and you would still make about the same profit per item as if you sold the produced the product for $35-40 and sold it to the retailer for $80 and then they mark it up to $160. The pant you sell direct could be a much better product for the price.

Anyway, enough retail economics. I wish you great success and look forward to seeing your products in the marketplace. Moto products produced to a level of performance and not a specific price point are rare.

[toddler]

Awesome input George. Thanks for the general education.

Originally Posted by gbmaz

I will throw in my $.02 and ask a few questions as a new rider but long term outdoor industry salesperson/retail buyer/user.

-If you are just going to offer just one color in the pants go black, dark grey, or grey/black color block. While many of us don't care how we look, you are missing out on a lot of customers if you don't have a color that compliments common jerseys/jackets. Don't give the customer a reason not to buy your product. If it starts to sell then expand into lighter colors that are more functional for desert riding.

-Go for durable over water proof. I can dry off after an afternoon storm, it is a lot harder to fix a tear in the field. Your comments earlier about the durability of waterproof breathable fabrics was spot on. In a fairly saturated market (not that a lot of the stuff in the market isn’t crap) it will be difficult to get folks to drop $200+ on a product from an unknown company.

-Pockets for armor would be nice, with the option of buying the armor as an upgrade. Don’t forget about a pocket that accommodates decent hip armor.

-I second the comments about having the pants pockets big enough for standard size maps. A secure (zippered) water resistant pocket just big enough for an ID, credit card, and vehicle key/alarm fob would be great. Perhaps with a small piece of stiff foam between the key and wearer in case of a crash.

-On the bottom cuff include a provision for shortening the inseam length by folding up the bottom and securing with Velcro or snaps. Assuming it did not make the bottom way too thick it gives you a way to have a short length without requiring a second size. This would of course mean you would have to use something other than a zipper to close the cuff over your boot. Even if you just designed the cuff with the possibility of alteration in mind it would be helpful to shorter folks.

Where are you planning to have the pants produced?

It would be great to be able to buy a quality US made product. If you can’t build it here then try to keep it in the Americas. I would recommend not producing in China. Not because they can’t make a quality product, they can produce quality equal to anyone in the world (when that is requested). Avoid China because their labor market is fairly volatile (wages rising) and their domestic market has awakened.

When I talk to smaller apparel manufacturers at trade shows who produce in China price variability and late delivery is a big problem. The awakening of their domestic market means that a company looking to produce for the Chinese domestic market will come to a factory and offer more per garment and then will get priority. You are then stuck with offering more per garment or having your product ship late. Both will kill a small manufacturer.

If you start small and only sell direct (small store and online) you can have a product that cost more per unit to produce and still keep the price competitive. A pant selling for $160 could cost you $75-80 to produce and you would still make about the same profit per item as if you sold the produced the product for $35-40 and sold it to the retailer for $80 and then they mark it up to $160. The pant you sell direct could be a much better product for the price.

Anyway, enough retail economics. I wish you great success and look forward to seeing your products in the marketplace. Moto products produced to a level of performance and not a specific price point are rare.

[COXR650L]

Originally Posted by gbmaz

I will throw in my $.02 and ask a few questions as a new rider but long term outdoor industry salesperson/retail buyer/user.

-If you are just going to offer just one color in the pants go black, dark grey, or grey/black color block. While many of us don't care how we look, you are missing out on a lot of customers if you don't have a color that compliments common jerseys/jackets. Don't give the customer a reason not to buy your product. If it starts to sell then expand into lighter colors that are more functional for desert riding.

-Go for durable over water proof. I can dry off after an afternoon storm, it is a lot harder to fix a tear in the field. Your comments earlier about the durability of waterproof breathable fabrics was spot on. In a fairly saturated market (not that a lot of the stuff in the market isn’t crap) it will be difficult to get folks to drop $200+ on a product from an unknown company.

-Pockets for armor would be nice, with the option of buying the armor as an upgrade. Don’t forget about a pocket that accommodates decent hip armor.

-I second the comments about having the pants pockets big enough for standard size maps. A secure (zippered) water resistant pocket just big enough for an ID, credit card, and vehicle key/alarm fob would be great. Perhaps with a small piece of stiff foam between the key and wearer in case of a crash.

-On the bottom cuff include a provision for shortening the inseam length by folding up the bottom and securing with Velcro or snaps. Assuming it did not make the bottom way too thick it gives you a way to have a short length without requiring a second size. This would of course mean you would have to use something other than a zipper to close the cuff over your boot. Even if you just designed the cuff with the possibility of alteration in mind it would be helpful to shorter folks.

Where are you planning to have the pants produced?

It would be great to be able to buy a quality US made product. If you can’t build it here then try to keep it in the Americas. I would recommend not producing in China. Not because they can’t make a quality product, they can produce quality equal to anyone in the world (when that is requested). Avoid China because their labor market is fairly volatile (wages rising) and their domestic market has awakened.

When I talk to smaller apparel manufacturers at trade shows who produce in China price variability and late delivery is a big problem. The awakening of their domestic market means that a company looking to produce for the Chinese domestic market will come to a factory and offer more per garment and then will get priority. You are then stuck with offering more per garment or having your product ship late. Both will kill a small manufacturer.

If you start small and only sell direct (small store and online) you can have a product that cost more per unit to produce and still keep the price competitive. A pant selling for $160 could cost you $75-80 to produce and you would still make about the same profit per item as if you sold the produced the product for $35-40 and sold it to the retailer for $80 and then they mark it up to $160. The pant you sell direct could be a much better product for the price.

Anyway, enough retail economics. I wish you great success and look forward to seeing your products in the marketplace. Moto products produced to a level of performance and not a specific price point are rare.

Thanks for the advise, you had some really good insight.

In reality, starting out, we are only going to be able to offer about 3 sizes in the pants. They should more or less cover from about a 33in waist to about 40. I want to offer more, but every size results in a large out lay of money. Once we get started I really like the idea of having some kind of hemable pant to offer to shorter/taller riders.

Regarding production, we will be producing them in the US. There are way to many potential problems invloved with going abroad with limited capital and lower production goals. We really want to have them made in the metro area and are looking at options for local production.

Thanks for the suggestions on strengthing the vent during a get off. I actually think the mesh we used is very strong and Im sure it wouldn't pull apart in a fall. The problems I envisioned was you leg turning to hamburger if you slid on the open vent, that was what I dont think we can get around.

I really appreciate all the input on colors, we will make sure they are some kind of dark two tone or solid black.

Geek, thank for the advise on the pocket opening, something we had not thought about.


I was riding left hand today and thought of a question about gear I have always had. What is everyone using the plastic D ring for that is on the waistband of various pants????

Thanks again, ben