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Old 01-12-2012, 09:59 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by supershaft View Post
My nitty gritty advise is slightly different. I never preshape the seal with my fingers. I don't touch it per BMW's slightly later advise. The seal boss in the case often needs chamfered with a Exato razor blade or the sharp edge will peel the ribs on the seal's OD. I lube the OD with a bit of motor oil. Knock on wood I have never had a problem that I know of.

What about your pump cover O-ring? There are some wrong parts for that out there.

Don't worry about reusing the 11mm bolts per BMW but I always replace the 10mm bolts!
I bought a complete engine gasket set from Huckys so they appear to be BMW OEM stuff.
I did replace the oil pump seal while I was in there. I'll revisit that again next time in. When I pulled the flywheel this time, oil was all over the rear so I can't tell exactly where it is coming from.
I'll definitely look for anything resembling cracks.
Oddly the original rear seal I removed was loose in the bore.... I picked it out with my fingers.
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Old 01-12-2012, 10:01 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by wirewrkr View Post
make sure it's actually motor oil on the shelf. Trans oil smells totally different.
Also, sometimes the oil pump cover is actually loose!
I have seen that more than once.
x2. I was thinking the same thing as I was reading this thread. If the oil smells like cat but then it's gear oil. It looks like you got the seal in straight so in theory the seal should be fine. I have never had the newer style seals leak.
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Old 01-12-2012, 10:06 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by bmweuro View Post
x2. I was thinking the same thing as I was reading this thread. If the oil smells like cat but then it's gear oil. It looks like you got the seal in straight so in theory the seal should be fine. I have never had the newer style seals leak.
Motor oil / Gear oil is like comparing Coors Light to Guinness Stout (I prefer the Guinness)
I've been absorbing automotive related fluids (some toxic?) since I was 12.
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Old 01-12-2012, 10:10 PM   #19
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Those oil pump cover threads in the case are prone to mess up. I suspect that between people over tightening them and then using all kinds of different goop including red Loctite they have a hard life. I also suspect they get taken off a lot for no reason because it is usually the RMS leaking and not the oil pump but that is another story. I heat those bolts up hot every time before I break them loose in case they have red Loctite on them. The threads often need cleaning. I use a role tap or thread chaser and not a regular tap. Those are precious threads and cleaning threads with a cutting tap removes quite a bit of precious material. I highly recommend having a couple of role tapes around. They are great for saving threads as well as rolling them. All your serious threads are rolled these days anyway. You can tell by looking at them with a magnifying glass.
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Old 01-12-2012, 11:30 PM   #20
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Since your flywheel is swiss cheesed, I'd suggest running the engine while the transmission is off, and observe where/if it's leaking. Clean the block really well and sprinkle talc/baby powder on the rear of the block to make the leak really stand out.

Your engine has a guide ring, it just looks like the end of the crank you're looking at. Take a look at the flywheel bolt holes - they not threaded to the surface - the unthreaded part is the guide ring.

Removing them can be a bitch, especially evidenced by the damage they suffer at previous hands. But we don't need the damage to prove that to us.
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Old 01-12-2012, 11:42 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Wirespokes View Post
Since your flywheel is swiss cheesed, I'd suggest running the engine while the transmission is off, and observe where/if it's leaking. Clean the block really well and sprinkle talc/baby powder on the rear of the block to make the leak really stand out.

Your engine has a guide ring, it just looks like the end of the crank you're looking at. Take a look at the flywheel bolt holes - they not threaded to the surface - the unthreaded part is the guide ring.

Removing them can be a bitch, especially evidenced by the damage they suffer at previous hands. But we don't need the damage to prove that to us.

So Wow! There is a guide ring. How is that attached to the crank end? It looks like one piece, but looking back at the previous photo, I see what you are referring to. Should it come off for any reason? Is there some other sealing doo-dad back there?
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Old 01-12-2012, 11:58 PM   #22
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I thought you had a '77 with a lightened flywheel. That means no guide ring. What chu got?
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Old 01-13-2012, 12:06 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by supershaft View Post
I thought you had a '77 with a lightened flywheel. That means no guide ring. What chu got?

That is what I have - 1977 R100S...inmate "wirespokes" said above that there is a "guide ring" fixed on the end of the crank.....I'm not entirely clear on the guide ring deal....
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Old 01-13-2012, 12:15 AM   #24
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The guide rings are for the late model ('81-on) setups. Your flywheel does have the orange O-ring inside right?

Sorry but I got to go meet a cutie. I will return but not tonight!
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Old 01-13-2012, 12:18 AM   #25
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The "guide ring" is attached to the back of your flywheel. It is the part that contacts the seal. On later models it is a separate part from the flywheel. This is ( I presume) because it can get a wear ridge in it from the seal and it can be replaced without replacing the whole flywheel.
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Old 01-13-2012, 01:57 AM   #26
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I had to HeliCoil one oil pump cover screw. Changed the cover to new, used, style. I think the later style bolts are stronger. Did use torque wrench. The screws I removed had been over tightened, one had a broken off head.

Thanks for the tip on the edge of the bore needing chamfer. I remember the edge of the seal being scraped off as being installed. Seems to work any way.

Oh, my bike is older than the subject of thread? Mine's 1975.

Charlie
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Old 01-13-2012, 06:12 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwhacker View Post
That is what I have - 1977 R100S...inmate "wirespokes" said above that there is a "guide ring" fixed on the end of the crank.....I'm not entirely clear on the guide ring deal....
Excuse me, you're right - there's no guide ring on your bike. When they went to the lightweight clutch carrier that eliminated that part of the flywheel, they made a separate part called the guide ring. The guide ring o-ring I mentioned is on the inside of the flywheel where it fits over the crank.

When I looked at the parts fiche it showed a guide ring - and looking at it now, shows no flywheel what-so-ever! You'll need to consult another diagram, like the 90/6, for that o-ring.
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Old 01-13-2012, 07:06 AM   #28
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I remember a few years ago when I was going to have my rear main seal replaced on my 81 G/S. I was so freaked out by all the stories here that I hired Matt Parkhouse to come over and do it. I asked him about how he prepares the seal. Does he rub it? Tap his heels three time? Say a prayer, etc.. All the stuff I had read head about how BMW's special free-range seals needed to be anointed and readied. He just looked at me with that special Matt look and said I was over thinking it. And before I could close my mouth and get the moonstruck look off my face he had the new seal in place in about 30 seconds. I'd have to go back to my G/S refresh thread but I remember it being one of the things I was so worried about. My bike did have the guide ring and we also put the new o-ring there. And of course the oil pump one as well.

Matt, who at the time did write the airhead column for the MOA rag ON, just smiled and said a lot of people really complicate things.

Guilty.

Best of luck. I too would consider running the engine w/o the trans if that is doable and see where it leaks.

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Old 01-13-2012, 11:00 AM   #29
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The seal installation is so simple and straight forward. That's the part that is killing me.....why is it leaking?
Upon the initial installation, I ran the bike numerous times sitting static and ran the engine up to temperature with no leaks. The leak developed after running the bike on the slab for 50 miles or so at 65 mph.
Upon pulling the flywheel a couple days ago, again no leaking until I ran it 20 miles or so. Running it without the transmission might not tell the tale.
I'm going to run it a bit more to see if things might "heal" up....likely not.
I'll revisit the oil pump o-ring too, I was very careful changing it but maybe things went awry there.(?)...I couldn't find a torque specification for the oil pump cover so tightened by feel....it has the bolts rather than the screw heads.
I'll be digging in deeper upon receipt of the new seal & o-rings and will report back of what I find.
Will likely change out the flywheel with a stock heavy one as the lightened flywheel is not really sidecar friendly.
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Old 01-13-2012, 11:57 AM   #30
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I was over thinking it...a lot of people really complicate things.
I just poked a hole in the old one, yanked it out with a hook and banged in the new one with the butt of a screw driver and just eyeballed it to check evenness of depth. It worked just fine. I probably wouldn't try doing it any more crudely than that though.
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