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Old 04-06-2013, 11:41 AM   #406
veetwo _tls
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Originally Posted by Marki_GSA View Post
Motobatt seem to be really good. There is a test somewhere that one was put against a few other top batteries repeatedly and they came out on top. There was an oddeesy in the test as well. I will see if I can find it and post a link.
cheers for that

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Old 04-06-2013, 05:11 PM   #407
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just done a sitting test (couple of days with no use) on the antigravity

it's reading 13.10V

in the paper work it says
> never drain the battery below 12.5V before recharging for optimal life & operation
> Charge battery as often as possible to keep in optimal voltage ... 13V


this mean the battery is still good then ?



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Old 04-06-2013, 05:28 PM   #408
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Originally Posted by veetwo _tls View Post
just done a sitting test (couple of days with no use) on the antigravity

it's reading 13.10V

in the paper work it says
> never drain the battery below 12.5V before recharging for optimal life & operation
> Charge battery as often as possible to keep in optimal voltage ... 13V

this mean the battery is still good then ?.
odds are the battery is still good .. that pop you heard could have been VR going bad. normally it'd take more than 17v to cause an A123 cell pop it's safety valve. LiFePO4 cells are extremely tolerant to abuse. normally cylindrical A123 cells used in Anti-gravity batteries are extremely rugged and can survive an amazing amount of abuse.

unlike lithium cobalt batteries like used in Boeing 787. which are extremely sensitive to overcharge and can go into thermal runaway by little as 1/2 volt over 4.2v max charge.

to charge your LiFePO4 battery with a normal automotive battery charger. (not a tender) don't use desulfate mode!

charge normally but track progress with a known to be accurate volt meter. when voltage reaches 14.4 or so (don't exceed 14.6v) take your LiFePO4 battery off charger.

than allow to rest overnight... take reading .. a fully charged LiFePO4 battery without BMS will read 14-14.2v .. with BMS 13.6v -13.9v depending on BMS.

note any battery can hold voltage, but not deliver max current. resting voltage is but one indicator.

this chart is pretty handy

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Old 04-10-2013, 12:53 PM   #409
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look at what just come in the door ... was speaking to Yuasa a few days ago about a possible technical error on their website. So the question came up .. how exactly does Yuasa's battery tenders work with AGM batteries?

when Yuasa found out about the Motorcycle battery testing thread on Adv, which has the most LiFePO4 motorcycle battery technical info on the WWW... they offered to send two of their battery chargers for testing.

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Old 04-10-2013, 01:14 PM   #410
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Originally Posted by _cy_ View Post
look at what just come in the door ... was speaking to Yuasa a few days ago about a possible technical error on their website. So the question came up .. how exactly does Yuasa's battery tenders work with AGM batteries?

when Yuasa found out about the Motorcycle battery testing thread on Adv, which has the most LiFePO4 motorcycle battery technical info on the WWW... they offered to send two of their battery chargers for testing.



CY are they there's or a generic with there branding ?
thinking replacing my trickle chargers there 5 yrs old
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Old 04-10-2013, 07:58 PM   #411
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Originally Posted by veetwo _tls View Post
CY are they there's or a generic with there branding ?
thinking replacing my trickle chargers there 5 yrs old
no need to replace if your current battery tenders have an actual float mode and doesn't put out more voltage than what will hurt an LiFePO4 battery. Max charge for LiFePO4 = 14.6v

some lead acid battery chargers will charge to 14.9v range with sulfation mode over 15v ... stay away from those chargers. they can kill your LiFePO4 battery.

switching gears ... for we are talking about using a charger made for lead acid on LiFePO4 batteries. which can be done, just make sure charger doesn't go over 14.6v. below comments are for AGM ....

---------------

for instance my dumb automotive 6amp charger puts out 14.4v max. current ranges from 6amp to milliamps as battery accepts less and less current as it reaches full charge state. but doesn't go into a float mode about 13v.

it's good for a charger to put out about 14.4v when battery is still accepting current. but when current drops to milliamp range. an intelligent battery tender will drop voltage down to about 13v into float mode.

a true float mode charger like Yuasa (pictured above) will not eventually kill your AGM battery. unlike chargers that doesn't drop voltage to about 13v into a true float mode.

take a known to be correct meter ... measure voltage with battery charger attached after a few days. when you know battery charger has enough time to fully charge battery. if voltage still reads 14.4v or so... that charger doesn't have a float mode.

at 13v in float mode, voltage is not high enough to push any current into your fully charged AGM battery.

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Old 04-11-2013, 06:43 AM   #412
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Yuasa chargers are made specially for Yuasa, to their specs, by a contracted company, that manufactures in China.
Yuasa has been getting the chargers made for them since the year 2000.
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Old 04-11-2013, 09:18 AM   #413
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Originally Posted by AKohler883 View Post
Yuasa chargers are made specially for Yuasa, to their specs, by a contracted company, that manufactures in China.
Yuasa has been getting the chargers made for them since the year 2000.
please post your experience with Yuasa chargers.

just diving in using both the Smartshot 1.5amp and Smartshot 900 milliamp models. they act very differently ..

Smartshot 1.5 amp is a true multi-stage charger with distinct bulk charge, absorption and float mode. it charges at 14.4v - 14.8v during bulk charge stage at 1.5amp. then as current accepted by battery decreases .. charger goes into absorption mode at milliamp rates to allow time for battery to fully accept charge. when battery reaches full charge, 1.5amp charger reduces voltage down to 13.17v.

note I'm using a calibrated Fluke 189 for repeatable results. it's really only necessary to calibrated most any cheap $10 meter to a known to be correct meter like a Fluke. Borrow a new one at any HVAC supplier to calibrate yours.. they usually won't mind.

here SmartShot 1.5amp is charging a problem Optima that would not accept a full charge with conventional charger shown.


voltage drops to 13.1v float mode
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Old 04-12-2013, 06:18 AM   #414
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Lithium Batt. question

I have been asked to post this on the thread,so here goes.
I have an 85 K100RT that I am transforming into a Naked.This will be my Hot weather bike. 20min. ride to the gym and from there a 10min. ride to work every morning.On weekends I will ride her with my buddies on spirited back-road rides lasting several hours.
I have replaced all fuel systems on her even though the K only has 15,000 miles on her odo. She starts on 1st crank every time and I plan on keeping it that way. She runs her factory lights and a set of Photon Blasters to be noticed.There are no other acc. on her.
The current batt. takes up most of the rear of the bike an weights 26lbs. I normally will shoe-horn in the largest batt. for its reserve capacity,but on this project a large batt. just not look right.
What is the smallest Lithuim I could get away with and still have a safety margin.
I am currently using a Battery Tender Plus,would I need a Lithium specific charger?
Thanks for your response
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Old 04-12-2013, 10:57 AM   #415
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I have been asked to post this on the thread,so here goes.
I have an 85 K100RT that I am transforming into a Naked.This will be my Hot weather bike. 20min. ride to the gym and from there a 10min. ride to work every morning.On weekends I will ride her with my buddies on spirited back-road rides lasting several hours.
I have replaced all fuel systems on her even though the K only has 15,000 miles on her odo. She starts on 1st crank every time and I plan on keeping it that way. She runs her factory lights and a set of Photon Blasters to be noticed.There are no other acc. on her.
The current batt. takes up most of the rear of the bike an weights 26lbs. I normally will shoe-horn in the largest batt. for its reserve capacity,but on this project a large batt. just not look right.
What is the smallest Lithuim I could get away with and still have a safety margin.
I am currently using a Battery Tender Plus,would I need a Lithium specific charger?
Thanks for your response
thanks very much for posting this instead of PM... odds are others have the exact same question and want answers.

what an excellent question!

for Starbuck duties ...the smallest LiFePO4 battery that will should start a 1,000cc class modern bike with fuel injection, good running condition in warm weather with NO cranks over 1-2 seconds, with little to no margin of safety would be an Shorai LFX18 battery.

for a smaller LiFePO4 battery for a 1,000cc class bike, fuel injected in good condition to be operated only in warm conditions, always taking off from home base niceties. for above conditions with a bit of safety, I'd recommend an EarthX ETX24 or Antigravity 12 cell or Shorai LFX24 ... smaller EarthX and Antigravity will outperform smaller Shorai in 200amp crank tests.

EarthX ETX18 and Antigravity 8 cell both deliver higher cranking amps than Shorai LFX18 and may do the job without going to next larger size LiFePO4 battery. so if you are going with smallest size LiFePO4 .. go with EarthX ETX18 or Antigravity 8cell.

note Shorai is constantly improving their products. odds are Shorai LFX18 battery used in tests are now upgraded and improved.

this video by Joel W illustrates how a Shorai LFX18 will start a 1,000cc class modern bike in excess of 20x times under brutal discharge conditions in between cranks. but yet Shorai LFX18 will fail within a few seconds into a 200amp crank test.


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Old 04-12-2013, 11:07 AM   #416
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this video by Joel W illustrates how a Shorai LFX18 will start a 1,000cc class modern bike in excess of 20x times in warm conditions.
But how many of us need to start our motorcycles 20X without charging the battery. I certainly don't.
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Old 04-12-2013, 11:43 AM   #417
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But how many of us need to start our motorcycles 20X without charging the battery. I certainly don't.
true enough .. but notice the test Joel W did was in warm condition. the minute one has to do extended cranking in cold conditions to start their bike. that same LFX18 will fail ...

it all changes when temps drops ... whereas current needed to operate starter spikes to about 150amp, then goes down to about 100amp. then only for 1-2 second duration.

when temps dip to say 20f ... now that same bike draws 250+ amps with longer crank times before engine starts.

note what counts is what volts is the battery capable of maintaining under load? higher the voltage under load, faster the starter will turn.

there's several pages devoted to 200amp crank tests. this is assuming that nothing ever goes wrong.... modern fuel injected bikes starts easier with shorter crank times than older carb models.

but if should ever get a bad load of fuel in their fuel injected bike... sometime cranking and cranking and cranking while banging on the fuel pump will get your motor running again. saving a long walk. that's where reserve amp hour capacity comes in handy.

with an old BMW airhead like mine ... 20f cold starts on R80G/S most times requires 30 seconds+ crank times while drawing 250+ amps. this is why Shorai LFX36 and EarthX ETX36 are the only two batteries that I'd recommend for Adventure duties ...far from any support.

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Old 04-12-2013, 12:27 PM   #418
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Thank you Cy.
Sounds like the EarthX18 for me.You might not have noticed the ? at the end of my blathering,but will I need a diff. charger for the EarthX?
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Old 04-12-2013, 12:45 PM   #419
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Thank you Cy.
Sounds like the EarthX18 for me.You might not have noticed the ? at the end of my blathering,but will I need a diff. charger for the EarthX?
any std AGM charger that has a true float mode should be OK. make sure it doesn't go over 14.6v during absorption stage, then drops down to about 13.2v -13.6v during float.

sorry have not tested a Daltran Battery Tender plus ... it should be easy to do above test with any known to be correct meter. The Yuasa SmartShot 900 milliamp charger shown above passes parameters and will work fine on LiFePo4 motorcycle batteries.

naturally it's best to use a LiFePO4 specific charger like Optimate Lithium LiFePO4 ..

you can use dumb automotive leadacid chargers that stay under 14.6v without a float mode. simply remove LiFePO4 battery when current goes down to milliamps for an hour. LiFePO4 batteries are remarkably tolerant to overcharge abuse.

most 12v charging systems stay within 13.8v to 14.2v which mates perfectly to LiFePO4 batteries.
test to check for charge state ... allow charged LiFePO4 battery to sit overnight ... then measure resting voltage. chart below will show charge level.




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Old 04-12-2013, 01:46 PM   #420
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Thanks again Cy.
Oh yea, I read that you did a long bike test on the Shori 36 and now you are doing a long rtiding test on the EarthX 36...hows it doing?
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