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Old 05-16-2013, 08:20 PM   #511
walkingbear
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two airheads

Two airheads

number one: R90S with high compression pistons , dual plugged


number two: 88 R100 GS. thinking about dual plugging switching over to 40mm heads and 40 mm bings.

Both take lots of juice to start. Would be better if I change out the starters to something newer that would take less load.

SO, what battery should I be looking at and why
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Old 05-16-2013, 10:03 PM   #512
_cy_ OP
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Originally Posted by walkingbear View Post
Two airheads

number one: R90S with high compression pistons , dual plugged


number two: 88 R100 GS. thinking about dual plugging switching over to 40mm heads and 40 mm bings.

Both take lots of juice to start. Would be better if I change out the starters to something newer that would take less load.

SO, what battery should I be looking at and why
thanks for asking ... answer depends on how/when you plan on riding your airhead.

airheads used for adventure duties has one of the most demanding requirements of any motorcycle battery. as you know starting requirements can veri widely... anywhere from barely touching the starter button to hard cranking for several 30 seconds + sessions before starting at below 20f ...

LiFePO4 battery's performance drops dramatically at lower temps. at 14f capacity drops in 1/2 .. hence need to warm up battery internals by drawing current to warm up battery.

carburetor equipped bikes generally require more cranking at colder temps than fuel injected bikes. even when both bikes are in a good state of tune.

then factor airhead charging systems at about 250 watts are marginal at best with heated gear. unless charging system has been upgraded to 400+ watt versions.

recommendations is to go with a quality AGM battery ... unless saving weight is more important than saving $$$.

if airhead is to be used for adventure duties .. go with the largest LiFePO4 you can stuff into battery tray. R80G/S has EarthX ETX36 currently installed with excellent performance. for the last year Shoria LFX36 has done an outstanding job starting R80G/S, including starting in brutal conditions like below 20f ...

definitely look into Valeo copies for Airheads, which has a reputation for less amp draw while spinning over engine faster. feedback is to go with version that has magnet with clips.

my R90S did have an 16AH AGM installed .. your clock on R90S will drain a fully charged 16AH AGM after a few months. my R90S 16AH AGM drained down to below 11v or pretty dead. Yuasa 900 Smartshot battery charger/maintainer recovered dead AGM nicely.

one of the main drawback to LiFePO4 is actual amp hour is relatively low. parasitic drain has an higher effect on LiFePO4 due to smaller actual amp hour capacity.

EarthX ETX36 and Shorai LFX36 both are about 14AH actual. 12 cell Antigravity has about 6.9 AH actual. 8cell = 4.6AH actual, 4cell = 2.3AH actual

if airhead is only going to be used in warm conditions ... smallest LiFePO4 would be EarthX ETX24. which does an excellent job of starting R80G/S even during colder conditions. but doesn't have enough amp hour capacity for the dreaded cold start, then short ride with heated gear. next morning at say 25f .. ETX24 battery didn't have enough AH remaining to start. so if you are only riding you airhead during warm seasons and/or always starting out from a fully equipped garage ... EarthX ETX24 would be an excellent choice for your airhead.

_cy_ screwed with this post 05-17-2013 at 04:08 AM
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Old 05-17-2013, 04:33 AM   #513
_cy_ OP
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Originally Posted by HapHazard View Post
Some of the EBay vendors don't include instructions that are useful. Here's an excellent tutorial:


an excellent video by Yuasa ... shows how to do an initial acid fill for a dry AGM battery. note Yuasa instructions above specifically calls for an initial slow charge. which requires a charger that delivers about 900 mah.

Yuasa 900 Smartshot charger/maintainer is ideal for this task.

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Old 05-18-2013, 03:10 PM   #514
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another question

I have a 1993 r100gs pd with the original BMW 3 amp, 12V black metal charger. I also have installed an odyssey 925 battery on the bike and an endurolast charging system. So my question is: can I use this charger on this battery without wrecking something? If not, any recommendations on a good charger/tender for this battery. The Odyssey Ultimizer (12 amp) is recommended, but the fan seems to run continuously - which could get pretty annoying.
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Old 05-18-2013, 03:44 PM   #515
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Originally Posted by smichel View Post
I have a 1993 r100gs pd with the original BMW 3 amp, 12V black metal charger. I also have installed an odyssey 925 battery on the bike and an endurolast charging system. So my question is: can I use this charger on this battery without wrecking something? If not, any recommendations on a good charger/tender for this battery. The Odyssey Ultimizer (12 amp) is recommended, but the fan seems to run continuously - which could get pretty annoying.
thanks for asking ...

from Endurolast website: "Ultimate Alternator Charging Kit with permanent magnet rotor & hi-output stator. Combination electronic volt regulator/rectifier. The amperage output of this system at low engine RPM's allows use of lighting, heating and other accessories. [I]Not Compatible with lithium iron batteries as supplied by Shorai."
-------------

odyssey 925 battery is an AGM battery which works fine with any 12v charging system, permanent magnet or electro-magnet rotor.

Odyssey Ultimizer (12 amp) should work fine with any motorcycle AGM battery, but is really sized for a full size auto battery. any quality AGM charger that has a true float mode will work fine for both auto and motorcycle AGM batteries.

it's worth understanding ... drawback to permanent magnet charging systems is failure mode when rectifier/regulator goes out. 17v+ will dump to battery .. killing it! then not only will you have a dead RR, you will also have a dead battery.

it's worth installing a volt meter on your airhead or any other bike with a permanent magnet charging system to track voltage output. if you shut down bike at first sign of overcharge.

you will still have to replace your RR, but your battery will be saved.

my recommendation is ... if you have not already purchased charger ... go with Yuasa 900 Smartshot charger/maintainer for your motorcycle battery. which is also compatible with LiFePO4.

or go with BMW 3 amp, 12V black metal charger ... which needs to be checked to make sure volts doesn't go over 14.8v ... in 1993 charger I believe wet lead acid batteries were OEM equipment on BMW, wet PB tolerates a higher charging voltage, which may not be compatible with AGM. don't use any charger with a desulfate mode on your AGM, unless mfg specifically gives instructions to do so. most chargers with desulfate modes are made for wet PB, voltages can exceed 15.9v. much safer not to go over 14.8v on all AGM.

chargers specifically designed for Gel should not go over 14.2v, then go into float mode at about 13.6v. which is within range for AGM.

_cy_ screwed with this post 05-20-2013 at 04:31 PM
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Old 05-19-2013, 02:33 AM   #516
smichel
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great info... thanks!!!
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Old 05-19-2013, 09:25 AM   #517
smichel
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Question

probably a dumb question cy, but can a fuse protect the battery against a failed R/R - as opposed to monitoring with a volt meter? I know that a fuse is rated by amperage, and that's different than voltage...
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Old 05-19-2013, 09:33 AM   #518
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Originally Posted by smichel View Post
probably a dumb question cy, but can a fuse protect the battery against a failed R/R - as opposed to monitoring with a volt meter? I know that a fuse is rated by amperage, and that's different than voltage...
nope .. voltage is the problem when RR fails, not current. assuming output stays within normal 13.8v to 14.2v, your battery self limits current that it will absorb.

at 17v+ .. current is getting pushed into battery, even if battery is fully charged... if over-charged long enough and with high enough voltage, all 12v batteries PB or LiFePO4 will be destroyed.
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Old 05-20-2013, 05:57 AM   #519
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bowser View Post
I have looked at this thread with interest, I have had the odd flat battery and I am looking to try and solve the problem.
I have a GIT bash plate which has a compartment for a tool roll, I am looking at the possibility of adding and extra battery in there and running in parallel, has anyone else tried adding a battery in that location, any problems?
Quote:
Originally Posted by StevenD View Post
I lost my battery in Iran and replaced with 2 sealed 7.2 amp battery's used in alarm cabinets. worked fine for at least a year or so.
Quote:
Originally Posted by biggus View Post
I have seen a few of those type batteries around and was curious if they would work since they are not specifically for motorcycles. Bouncing/shock, heat and water are not what these type of batteries were intended to be used in.

I have seen a 12 volt, 20ah battery like this that would fit but was not sure if it would hold up or blow up.
Has anyone else have comments on this type of battery?
your KTM charging system was originally designed to support lead acid batteries. which includes wet PB, AGM and Gel. 13.8v to 14.2v is the range needed to support PB.

drawback to permanent magnet charging systems is when your RR goes out. 17v+ goes to your battery killing it. recommendations is to install a small waterproof voltmeter. you will still have to replace your RR. but your battery will be saved.

it's possible to operate bike with RR out. but limiting charging to for short periods by disconnect wiring, operating on battery only. during bulk phase of charging, voltage too high will not hurt battery.

recommendations is go with AGM ... stay away from batteries with too small Amp hour, especially tiny LiFePO4, like Shorai LFX18. if you must have LiFePO4, go with largest LiFePO4 you can stuff into space available, which would be EarthX ETX36 (14AH actual)

LiFePO4 is fully charged at 14.6v ... normal discharge range is 13.3v to 12.8v ... a very flat discharge curve. this is why LiFePO4 mates almost perfect to 12v charging systems designed to support PB.

Gel should not be charged over 14.2v, so will work fine on your bike's charging system. but most automotive chargers puts out 14.8v or so and will kill it.

those sealed 12v batteries used for alarms, etc are usually Gel.
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Old 05-20-2013, 06:06 AM   #520
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_CY_, so the charge voltage profile of the 900mA Yuasa tender is compatible with the charging needs of the LiFePo batteries. Can it also be used as a tender on bikes with LiFePo batteries and parasitic loads? It appears to be "smart" and to cut the charge before 14.6V, so it works more like a true tender than a trickle charger.
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Old 05-20-2013, 06:37 AM   #521
_cy_ OP
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Originally Posted by battlecry View Post
_CY_, so the charge voltage profile of the 900mA Yuasa tender is compatible with the charging needs of the LiFePo batteries. Can it also be used as a tender on bikes with LiFePo batteries and parasitic loads? It appears to be "smart" and to cut the charge before 14.6V, so it works more like a true tender than a trickle charger.
yes Yuasa 900 Smartshot just so happens to match charging profile of LiFePO4. just like 12v charging system on motorcycles and auto matches with LiFePO4.

it's fine to charge up LiFePO4 with Yuasa Smartshop 900, but don't leave on motorcycle for long periods. it's best to allow LiFePO4 battery to drain down every 30 days, then allowed to charge backup in normal charge cycle.

Optimate Lithium LiFePO4 charger is designed specifically to do this for LiFePO4 and will cycle off after 30 days or so. allowing battery to discharge, then a normal charge cycle.

LiFePO4 has an extremely low self discharge and needs NO tender if there is no parasitic drain.
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Old 05-20-2013, 07:17 AM   #522
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _cy_ View Post
...
it's possible to operate bike with RR out. but limiting charging to for short periods by disconnect wiring, operating on battery only. during bulk phase of charging, voltage too high will not hurt battery.
...
Do you mean to run on battery power only until it's almost drained, then reconnecting (broken, overcharging) RR?
I could see this working if you just idle your bike and the voltage shouldn't be high at all...

Question is how long would it take and how to know that your battery is charged enough to keep going???
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Old 05-20-2013, 07:31 AM   #523
_cy_ OP
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Originally Posted by biggus View Post
Having a hard time finding another battery here in Thailand after my Voltage Rectifier damaged my 18ah Shorai and died in the middle of Laos. This time it was at least in a small town instead of the middle of the jungle like the year before. I was able to locate the only 9ah battery around. Everything was 2.5, 5 or 7ahs.

I had found some small 12volt 7ah maintenance free batteries in my search and was thinking if I could connect 2 in parallel to create 14ah? 3 may even fit in the battery box.

Any issues that I should be aware of doing this?

Links to part of an adventure I had the pleasure to be include in are below.
http://motorcycletourslaos.blogspot.com/
http://advrider.com/forums/showthrea...ght=laos+lifan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bli55 View Post
Do you mean to run on battery power only until it's almost drained, then reconnecting (broken, overcharging) RR?
I could see this working if you just idle your bike and the voltage shouldn't be high at all...

Question is how long would it take and how to know that your battery is charged enough to keep going???
note original posts was for someone broken down in Thailand with a bad RR and deal Shoria LiFePO4 battery.

to understand how this works .. it's necessary to understand basic battery charging phases.

during bulk phase of charge, battery will basically absorb what ever amps is thrown at it. during this phase, voltage is not important. until battery has absorbed the bulk of charge and current tapers down. until full charge is reached. during final absorption phase of charging voltage is very important and should not exceed 14.2v. that's when you need to disconnect charging wire.

this is for emergency use only ... like when one is stuck in the middle of no-where. if you allow charging system with broken RR to only charge during bulk phase... then disconnect charge wires only. then operate bike on battery power alone.. repeat charge cycle ... hopefully will limp bike to a service point.

install a volt meter on your bike if you have not done so already...
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Old 05-20-2013, 08:03 AM   #524
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Good thread...cheers for the info...
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Old 05-20-2013, 01:07 PM   #525
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Originally Posted by _cy_ View Post
Don't use any charger with a desulfate mode on your AGM.


Does that mean I shouldn't be letting this.....................


do that, to this?
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