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Old 03-07-2012, 11:32 AM   #106
TXjames
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strip spoofing

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoelWisman View Post

ONTO HOW IT WORKS:

Once every 90 seconds, the bike sends current to the heater circuit of the strip. The portion of the strip that is above the fuel heats to about 100 F above ambient. This also heats the sensor circuit which changes resistance with temperature. The computer then reads the resistance of the sensor circuit, and from the reading, knows how much of the strip is above the fuel level of the tank, and hence, what the fuel level is.

Fuel splashes around the tank so the computer waits till a couple of 90 second cycles have passed, takes the average, then updates the fuel level read-out. This is why it takes a while to update the gauge after you fuel up.

Conversely, if you start the bike but don't move it at all, the computer sees the resistance of the sensor circuit is stable and updates within 90 seconds.
I've sifted through this thread and don't believe the following topic has been discussed. Please forgive me if it has...

Suppose that I just want to spoof the strip reading and tell the computer that the tank is full all the time. Would this be as simple as supplying the correct resistance to the sensor leads entering the tank (externally of course)? If so, what would be a good resistance to use? And where would the best location be to connect this resistance?

FYI, my 07 GSA has had the strip replaced two or three times and still isn't accurate. I'm currently covered by extended warranty but the day will come when I'm not. Even so, I don't really care to drive 100 miles twice to have the problem band-aided again. So I'm content to use my trip-meter for fuel level as long as the warning indicator never flashes again due to a bad strip.
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Old 03-07-2012, 03:46 PM   #107
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The "1000v zap" fix did not work for my fuel strip.



Sorry, could not resist...
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Old 03-08-2012, 05:36 AM   #108
mrt10x
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bboshart View Post
The "1000v zap" fix did not work for my fuel strip.



Sorry, could not resist...
Clearly you didnt read this thread correctly and ignored Bernoulli's 15th law of thermalregeneration, in which the linear resistence of your Higgs Boson input must be directly influenced by the wave particle duality of your inclusive system?? I mean your end result clearly proves that Georg Ohm was a moron and clearly you should have followed George Marshall an implemented the Marshall Plan... in which lamda = h/p , remember h is Planck's constant, and sum is greater than the parts. Or you could have gone with the George Gerswhin postulate when your Porgy and Bess constants must be directly related to you Rhapsody inputs. Or even better yet I would have applied the George Patton Law which goes something like .. hey diddle diddle, straight up the middle. What are you a first year law student??
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mrt10x screwed with this post 03-08-2012 at 05:44 AM
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Old 03-08-2012, 10:00 AM   #109
slowoldguy
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My report. 43K of relative accuracy. Now suddenly all wonky. Got the light. Freaked out pretty good because I was nowhere near a station and the countdown said I wouldn't get near one either. Backed way off to 10 over the West Texas speed limit (lol) and rolled in with 1 mile to go on the countdown. Took a mere 5.5 on my 2007 Adventure. Not that funny but better than being off the other way. We were averaging 27-29 mpg and I think that freaked out the thermodynamic resistors a little. Probably thought the tank was leaking.

Rode like this plenty before and this didn't happen. We'll see what it acts like on a more normal ride (33-36 mpg).

I really liked being able to "trust" my computer, at least a little. Only left me stranded one time in 43K.
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slowoldguy screwed with this post 03-08-2012 at 11:41 AM
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Old 03-08-2012, 10:21 AM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slowoldguy View Post
My report. 43K of relative accuracy. Now suddenly all wonky. Got the light. Freaked out pretty good because I was nowhere near a station and the countdown said I wouldn't get near one either. Backed way off to 10 over the West Texas speed limit (lol) and rolled in with 1 mile to go on the countdown. Took a mere 5.5 on my 2007 Adventure. Not that funny but better than being off the other way. We were averaging 27-29 mpg and I think that freaked out the thermodynamic resistors a little. Probably thought the tank was leaking.

Rode like this plenty before and this didn't happen. We'll see what it acts like on a more normal ride (33-36 mpg).

I really liked being able to "trust" my computer, at least a little. Only left me starnded one time in 43K.
Any data on whether it happens on the GS/GSA more on one or the other?
Sorry if this has already been covered.
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Old 03-08-2012, 01:51 PM   #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slowoldguy View Post
My report. 43K of relative accuracy. Now suddenly all wonky. Got the light. Freaked out pretty good because I was nowhere near a station and the countdown said I wouldn't get near one either. Backed way off to 10 over the West Texas speed limit (lol) and rolled in with 1 mile to go on the countdown. Took a mere 5.5 on my 2007 Adventure. Not that funny but better than being off the other way. We were averaging 27-29 mpg and I think that freaked out the thermodynamic resistors a little. Probably thought the tank was leaking.

Rode like this plenty before and this didn't happen. We'll see what it acts like on a more normal ride (33-36 mpg).

I really liked being able to "trust" my computer, at least a little. Only left me stranded one time in 43K.
On the GSA the tank continues down below the center hump. Fuel is drafted from the left side only, so to make the right side of the tank useable, the return line has an educator where the return line sits on the bottom of the right side of the tank headed to the left side. I have never seen this system fail, it is simply a shaped and angled hole that causes fuel from the right to siphon to the left.

ever tightening emission standards forced BMW to back off on the fuel pump duty cycle slowing the return flow. This broke eduction so BMW added a fiddley fuel flow driven fan to improve eduction action. The pump fan has no electrical or wires but sometimes gets gummed up and stops rotating.

When this happens, eduction breaks and the almost 2 gallons of gas trapped on the right side of the tank becomes unusable.

The symptoms are: "everything is fine till you get down to about 3.5 gallons of gas, then the fuel strip sees fuel level start falling twice as fast as known fuel injection can account for. projected MPG figures and miles to empty figures start cycling down rapidly and the computer triggers the low fuel light". Continue on, and at some point you really will run out of gas with about 1.75 gallons still in the right side of the tank.

The ultimate fix is to take the eductor out of the tank and clean it, or at least had some BMW or Chevron techron concentrate to the tank which will sometimes clean up the problem.


In the field, if you run out of gas from this problem, just lay the bike on it's left side and the right side will drain to the left and become usable.

P.S. Even when the educator is working, if you are fairly low on fuel and drop the bike on it's left side, the educator often won't transfer fuel to the right side of the tank in-time for the bike not to die on what residual pressure is left in the fuel system. Same field solution, drop or crash the bike on the right side and continue on your way.

It could be your strip, but just as likely your eductor gummed up slowoldguy.

qman8, I have not noticed anything that indicates it happens more with one model then the other. There are only 2 strips that I know of, though more part numbers as the strips come in housings shaped differently for different tanks.
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Old 03-08-2012, 02:37 PM   #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TXjames View Post
I've sifted through this thread and don't believe the following topic has been discussed. Please forgive me if it has...

Suppose that I just want to spoof the strip reading and tell the computer that the tank is full all the time. Would this be as simple as supplying the correct resistance to the sensor leads entering the tank (externally of course)? If so, what would be a good resistance to use? And where would the best location be to connect this resistance?

FYI, my 07 GSA has had the strip replaced two or three times and still isn't accurate. I'm currently covered by extended warranty but the day will come when I'm not. Even so, I don't really care to drive 100 miles twice to have the problem band-aided again. So I'm content to use my trip-meter for fuel level as long as the warning indicator never flashes again due to a bad strip.
Any thought on the above Joel?
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Old 03-08-2012, 03:57 PM   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TXjames View Post
Any thought on the above Joel?
The computer checks the current flow through the heater wires in the strip, as well as the resistance of the sensor wires in the strip.

If the resistance of the sensor circuit in the strip does not change when heating current is applied and the values indicate below half tank, it will see that too.

If it sees anomalous behavior in any of these three areas, it will indicate no fuel and throw the warning light.

I do not know if it uses logic to say "the fuel level is never going down, something is up" but I doubt it

I think we could spoof it into thinking the tank was 100% full all the time with about a buck in parts, but someone with a full tank and still working strip would have to drop by me to measure then plug in a few resistors to confirm.
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Old 03-08-2012, 06:48 PM   #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slowoldguy View Post
My report. 43K of relative accuracy. Now suddenly all wonky. Got the light. Freaked out pretty good because I was nowhere near a station and the countdown said I wouldn't get near one either. Backed way off to 10 over the West Texas speed limit (lol) and rolled in with 1 mile to go on the countdown. Took a mere 5.5 on my 2007 Adventure. Not that funny but better than being off the other way. We were averaging 27-29 mpg and I think that freaked out the thermodynamic resistors a little. Probably thought the tank was leaking.

Rode like this plenty before and this didn't happen. We'll see what it acts like on a more normal ride (33-36 mpg).

I really liked being able to "trust" my computer, at least a little. Only left me stranded one time in 43K.
Similar situation, but the other way - 30,000 miles on my 2010 with no problem. Then one day, glancing at my fuel bars (4 or 5 left), I saw my tank mileage was 360 or so. Not many gas stations out in the swamp, so I figured I was good to get home, based on about 400 miles per tank (my usual)

Turns out it was 401 miles to the house, and 400 was pretty accurate.

It's been off about the same in the last 3,000 miles. I watch the trip meter closer now.
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Old 03-16-2012, 07:36 PM   #115
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Please fill out my fuel-strip survey if you've had problems: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...RnpDLVVNWUE6MQ

I've had my third fuel strip go since September, used only premium gas and using techron as recommended by some. Ethanol is BS excuse, the bike is sold in the US and they knew we have mostly 10% Ethanol fuel. I agree that a fuel gauge should never be taken at gospel however this situation is ridiculous, Its annoying and I expect more from BMW.
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Old 03-17-2012, 05:57 AM   #116
JStancampiano
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoelWisman View Post
On the GSA the tank continues down below the center hump. Fuel is drafted from the left side only, so to make the right side of the tank useable, the return line has an educator where the return line sits on the bottom of the right side of the tank headed to the left side. I have never seen this system fail, it is simply a shaped and angled hole that causes fuel from the right to siphon to the left.

ever tightening emission standards forced BMW to back off on the fuel pump duty cycle slowing the return flow. This broke eduction so BMW added a fiddley fuel flow driven fan to improve eduction action. The pump fan has no electrical or wires but sometimes gets gummed up and stops rotating.

When this happens, eduction breaks and the almost 2 gallons of gas trapped on the right side of the tank becomes unusable.

The symptoms are: "everything is fine till you get down to about 3.5 gallons of gas, then the fuel strip sees fuel level start falling twice as fast as known fuel injection can account for. projected MPG figures and miles to empty figures start cycling down rapidly and the computer triggers the low fuel light". Continue on, and at some point you really will run out of gas with about 1.75 gallons still in the right side of the tank.

The ultimate fix is to take the eductor out of the tank and clean it, or at least had some BMW or Chevron techron concentrate to the tank which will sometimes clean up the problem.


In the field, if you run out of gas from this problem, just lay the bike on it's left side and the right side will drain to the left and become usable.

P.S. Even when the educator is working, if you are fairly low on fuel and drop the bike on it's left side, the educator often won't transfer fuel to the right side of the tank in-time for the bike not to die on what residual pressure is left in the fuel system. Same field solution, drop or crash the bike on the right side and continue on your way.

It could be your strip, but just as likely your eductor gummed up slowoldguy.

qman8, I have not noticed anything that indicates it happens more with one model then the other. There are only 2 strips that I know of, though more part numbers as the strips come in housings shaped differently for different tanks.
Is this thing you are calling an "educator " the sucking jet pump?? I am having a problem with the fuel on the right side of my GSAdv not transferring to the left side.

Joe
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Old 03-17-2012, 09:59 AM   #117
TXjames
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoelWisman View Post
The computer checks the current flow through the heater wires in the strip, as well as the resistance of the sensor wires in the strip.

If the resistance of the sensor circuit in the strip does not change when heating current is applied and the values indicate below half tank, it will see that too.

If it sees anomalous behavior in any of these three areas, it will indicate no fuel and throw the warning light.

I do not know if it uses logic to say "the fuel level is never going down, something is up" but I doubt it

I think we could spoof it into thinking the tank was 100% full all the time with about a buck in parts, but someone with a full tank and still working strip would have to drop by me to measure then plug in a few resistors to confirm.
I don't live anywhere near you or I'd come right over to figure it out. But it sounds straight forward enough for me.

So are you thinking that only the strip needs to be replaced with resistors? And leave the heater circuit alone? If so then it's pretty easy job. My strip still works... sorta. It's not very accurate but it certainly reads full. So I should be able to get a value from that.

My question is which conductors do I need to look at? Here's a pic for reference:


Obviously, the three wires on the connector in the foreground are for the fuel pump regulator. So that leaves the connector in the background. I'm away from the bike now but there appears to be a green, maybe brown for ground, and blue?. Please correct me if I'm wrong. So I would imagine a common ground, one conductor for the strip and one conductor for the heater. Is this correct? If so, which wire handles the strip?

Thanks for the help!
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Old 03-17-2012, 10:08 AM   #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JStancampiano View Post
Is this thing you are calling an "educator " the sucking jet pump?? I am having a problem with the fuel on the right side of my GSAdv not transferring to the left side.

Joe
Yes, BMW likes to use fancy words :) a sucking jet pump is another way of referring to an eductor pump.
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Old 03-17-2012, 10:17 AM   #119
JoelWisman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TXjames View Post
I don't live anywhere near you or I'd come right over to figure it out. But it sounds straight forward enough for me.

So are you thinking that only the strip needs to be replaced with resistors? And leave the heater circuit alone? If so then it's pretty easy job. My strip still works... sorta. It's not very accurate but it certainly reads full. So I should be able to get a value from that.

My question is which conductors do I need to look at? Here's a pic for reference:


Obviously, the three wires on the connector in the foreground are for the fuel pump regulator. So that leaves the connector in the background. I'm away from the bike now but there appears to be a green, maybe brown for ground, and blue?. Please correct me if I'm wrong. So I would imagine a common ground, one conductor for the strip and one conductor for the heater. Is this correct? If so, which wire handles the strip?

Thanks for the help!
Honestly, my memory is that the strip has 4 wires. My memory COULD be faulty, or there could be one wire hidden in that picture.

I have no idea of the color code, its likely differing over different years, and about the only thing BMW keeps consistent is that brown is USUALLY ground.

Take resistance readings of all combinations, post it and it will become clear.
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Old 03-17-2012, 02:22 PM   #120
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Joel,

I happen to have a new strip in my garage. Pins 1 - 4 is 32 Ohm. I believe that's the heater circuit. My RT feeds it with 9 Vdc at key on and after ~ 5 sec. it drops to 7.5 Vdc.

Pins 2 - 3 have 2.4k Ohms across them.

My old strip ( still in the bike) has an open across pins 2 - 3 and the gauge reads empty. I'll swap it out one of these days. :-)

Thank You for all of your posts on this topic.
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