E15 is coming

[markjenn]

Originally Posted by njpaddler

Legislation is now pending & A.M.A. has sent out a notice...

Just to be clear here, the "legislation" that is pending is a bill to require the EPA to go back and do more testing, not to require the use of E15. IOW, it's anti-E15 legislation, not pro-E15 legislation. It's still not clear when/if E15 is coming. Anyone who sells the stuff would be required to put a notice on the pump saying that it is only for newer cars. I would think this would not be terribly attractive to retailers selling gas.

- Mark

[tgeliot]

Originally Posted by gmiguy

I expect fewer parts issues with E15 than when E10 was introduced.

Most vehicles on the road now are either designed to be compatible with ethanol fuel or have had the non-compatible parts fail and be replaced with compatible parts.

The extra 5% ethanol content won't impact compatibility much, if at all. Parts that are suitable for E10 will be suitable for E15. Parts that are not suitable for E10 are already obsolete.

EDIT: Apparently I can't distinguish "15" from "85". Sigh.

I hate to be the one to break it to you, but according to Wikipedia, "E85 is an abbreviation for an ethanol fuel blend of up to 85% denatured ethanol fuel and gasoline or other hydrocarbon (HC) by volume." So it's not that we're going from 10% ethanol to 15% ethanol, we're going from 10% to 85%.

As for it being a net-negative energy product, there was a very thorough study reported in IEEE Spectrum. That study concluded that given all the variables (energy to transport fertilizer, energy to transport ethanol or gasoline hither and yon, energy lost in producing ethanol, etc, etc) it could go either way. It depends on things like the locations of refineries, locations of farms, etc.

[anotherguy]

Like I said earlier my Tuono sat since August with a full untreated tank of E10. Fired right up no problem. The intake valves have little deposit on them at 84K miles. I really think there's little issue with this stuff with the exception of old dirty fuel systems where the solvent action of ethanol cuts the gunk loose to clog up the works. Not to mention the swelling plastic gas tanks.

I also use Top Tier fuels whenever possible. Seems to make a difference in engine cleanliness.

[showkey]

[QUOTE=tgeliot;17929228]I hate to be the one to break it to you, but according to Wikipedia, "E85 is an abbreviation for an ethanol fuel blend of up to 85% denatured ethanol fuel and gasoline or other hydrocarbon (HC) by volume." So it's not that we're going from 10% ethanol to 15% ethanol, we're going from 10% to 85%.

[/QUOTE


Wikipedia......................

Totaling confusing the issue.....there is E10 that is purposed to go or allow E15..................E85 is already in the market for FLEX FUEL vehicles..........E85 will NOT run in conventional engines and should never be used in a NON FLEX FUEL engine.

[Wasser]

Originally Posted by tgeliot

So it's not that we're going from 10% ethanol to 15% ethanol, we're going from 10% to 85%.

Buzzzzzt and in the words of Alex Trebek "sorry"

We are currently at 10% and "considering" going up to 15% ethanol blend at the pump.

Like showkey wrote, we already have 85% blended and it is called E85. It is currently available at quite a few stations already. The pump nozzle is yellow and it is used in flex-fueled vehicles only at this time in North America.

[gmiguy]

Originally Posted by tgeliot

I hate to be the one to break it to you, but according to Wikipedia, "E85 is an abbreviation for an ethanol fuel blend of up to 85% denatured ethanol fuel and gasoline or other hydrocarbon (HC) by volume." So it's not that we're going from 10% ethanol to 15% ethanol, we're going from 10% to 85%.

I hate to be the one to break it to you, but E15 is not the same thing as E85.

E15 was the subject of the original post and my response to it.

I think you were the first one here to mention E85.

[mcstark]

Originally Posted by markjenn

Anyone who sells the stuff would be required to put a notice on the pump saying that it is only for newer cars. I would think this would not be terribly attractive to retailers selling gas.

- Mark

Add to this the fact that Americans are now driving older cars more than ever, with an average age of 10.8 years (source: http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2012/...igh-108-years/). Going to E15 would be just plain stupid for anyone selling gas given this information.

[gmiguy]

Originally Posted by mcstark

Add to this the fact that Americans are now driving older cars more than ever, with an average age of 10.8 years (source: http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2012/...igh-108-years/). Going to E15 would be just plain stupid for anyone selling gas given this information.

That may not be as significant as you make it out to be.

When E10 was introduced "older cars" were not designed for use with ethanol fuel.

A 10.8 year old car in 2012 is a model year 2001 or thereabouts; so it was designed well after E10 became available/common.

A car designed for E00 operating with E10 is a much bigger jump than a car designed for E10 operating with E15; the two situations are not analogous.

[tgeliot]

Originally Posted by gmiguy

I hate to be the one to break it to you, but E15 is not the same thing as E85.

E15 was the subject of the original post and my response to it.

I think you were the first one here to mention E85.

Yeah it would appear my math skills need some work

[Worroll]

One of the main reason for food prices going up is the corn subsidies. I don't know who here does grocery shopping, but over the last few years all food prices went up a lot. The cost of feed corn for livestock is a huge factor. Quick google searches will find anyone plenty of news articles about it.

It has nothing to do with dependency on foreign oil, the environment, or any other rational reasoning. It is 100% about the corn lobbies influence on the government. That sounds completely ridiculous, but it's true.

There is a huge push back against the E15, a big coalition is fighting to hold it back until a fuel scientific study of it can happen. With any luck the study will prove a case to end the subsidies and take all ethanol out of fuel.

They have come up with the label for the E15 pumps, and it says not for use for vehicles pre 2001.


http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/2/1219...-E15-Fuel.aspx

http://content.usatoday.com/communit...-block-sell-/1

[Doug Just Doug]

I know I don't want to see E-15. The old-school inline-4 air-cooled engine in ZR-7S doesn't even like E-10 (decreased responsiveness and fuel mileage). I try to fill up on the non-corny fuel whenever I can. E-10 is mandatory here in DE but I can find a few stations still selling the good stuff in nearby PA.

[troidus]

Originally Posted by Worroll

They have come up with the label for the E15 pumps, and it says not for use for vehicles pre 2001.

They're going to have to be more specific and state not for vehicles with fuel systems designed prior to 2001. My 2004 Concours has a fuel system designed in 1986 and is likely to barf if fed E15.

[Worroll]

Originally Posted by troidus

They're going to have to be more specific and state not for vehicles with fuel systems designed prior to 2001. My 2004 Concours has a fuel system designed in 1986 and is likely to barf if fed E15.

That just says cars/trucks, motorcycles would be in the "Federal law prohibits this fuel in other vehicles and engines".

[troidus]

Originally Posted by Worroll

That just says cars/trucks, motorcycles would be in the "Federal law prohibits this fuel in other vehicles and engines".

Good point. They want to ban motorcycles anyway, so the way to do it is just quit making fuel for them and let attrition handle it.

[Flashback]

I'm not so sure I believe anything to do with E15 heading our way. If anything it looks like things are moving in the other direction and ethanol is being phased out for the real stuff again. Ethanol shouldn't be run in gasoline engines, everyone knows this, and those that don't are quickly learning the realities of trying to fit a square block in a round hole.

But hey, I'm no expert. I am, however, someone who knows where to get 100% ethanol free gas and I don't hesitate to avoid the ethanol pumps for the pure stuff.