Selling the bike dilemma - BA or Paraguay, and how??

[Salva]

Originally Posted by Ruthrad

I write this mainly so people who come to similar situations in the future would have more information to act on, and would make better use of their limited time. So feel free to contribute a reply, an opinion, or ask for me to edit something in my post (like a business that doesn't want to be mentioned).

Short version - try to sell in Punta Arenas to a local, if not online to a tourist (Buenos is a comfortable place, but anywhere close to a border would work), if not - Ciudad del Este to locals, surest option (but lower price).

Now for everything I know now on this subject.

Argentina:
1) best option if you find a tourist to sell to (through posting on ADV / HUBB), depends on season (when people start trips), takes time to find (so arrange beforehand), takes some trust. Documents are either photoshoped (US registrations), or transfered legally in US (US title), or transfered by a "poder" (power of attorney) in a local notary. This is the known / popular option. Price range 2500 -3500 $.
2) shitty option - "sell for parts" to local in Buenos or Mar del Plata. 1500$


Paraguay:
It's like Guatemala, but in SA. Just switch back to central america / third world mode, and you'll feel back at home with the people and the traffic.
Coming through the border you are told that you don't need the aduana paper, so basically your bikes in not regirtered anywhere (they just check your ownership papers). You can go back and get it if you ask for it, but it depends on the buyer - if they think they need or not (both in Asuncion and Ciudad del Este the border is very close if you want to go back and get it).

- Asuncion:
First of all, a much cheaper place to stay, not nearly as dangerous as people make it out to be, some parts are pretty western, some nightlife.
But not many cheap places to stay (just three hostels) and parking is difficult. What I found was a very cheap hostel (30000 guarani - 30 arg pesos) on 1422 Paris street (there was no sign, just ring the bell). The owner has a parking space in an underground parking of a building nearby, secure and confortable. Aircon in the rooms and good atmosphere.

The process for legalizing the bike in Paraguay from what I understood is that they buy the bike from you using a local notary (escribania) and than legalize themselves later (that a process called "despachar" and the complexity and cost of it depends on the connections of the buyer, but I kept hearing sums from 1500$ to 3000$, for all I know, they might not be paying anything, and that's just negotiating).

To sell what you do is:
1) go to the bike businesses and offer the bike. They call friends, and than either you'll have someone interested in the bike or not. I was offering for 3000$ and had a few people interested but non that came through quickly enough (one disappeared just before the exchange) before I moved to Ciudad del Este. The bike shops there were recomended to me on the HUBB via messages etc are the following:
- Klein motos, on aviadores del chaco, near chacore street. They seem to be the boutique bike shop of the city with the attitude and prices to match. Weren't very helpful or nice, maybe I came on a bad day. But drop by to see maybe they know somebody who happens to be interested.
- Gotze dealership, on mariscal lopez near the municipalidad . was very helpful despite being busy.
- Motoland, on cedro street between concepcion and patria. a harley shop, but he might know.
- A shop on Francia right after Brazil street.
- Alsina, on Independencia 840 or smth.

2) publish on Clasipar.com (the local craigslist). I tried that twice and my ad got deleted both times. First I thought it was because I only had e-mail there, but than I used a local phone and it still got deleted. I think it's because I wrote that it was "a despachar" meaning it still needs to get legalized.. I don't know really, but the locals all say to publish there. So try that, as it might be a much more efficient way.


- Ciudad del Este:
I read a couple of times that this might the ultimate place to sell quickly, I was told in Asuncion multiple times that I should go there (but be very careful), also a HUBB user and traveler who lives in Foz do Iguazu (the brazilian side of Ciudad del Este) - Rodolfo (on the hubb under "Iguassu falls Quati") contacted me and told me the same thing and even offered his help.

So why Ciudad del Este? many more bike shops, and a lot of trading happening, the pace is quicker and people are more business oriented. It will be harder negociating, but you get answers quickly. I wanted to sell in a day, and it happened to be a saturday (short day), and after a lot of riding around (first alone, and than with Rod) and some luck asking directions from the right people on the street - there was an agreement, and monday we went to the notary and money and bike changed hands.
Money - I was offering it for 3000$ and was bargained down to 2600$ by the buyer only because I didn't want/have more time to spend on the sale even though I had other potential buyers scheduled to see the bike a bit later. I think if I would spend another day or several days it was totally possible to sell it for more, because I think that those people there, pay less for the legalization, if at all.
So basically, bike sold in a day (and a saturday) in Ciudad del Este. I think it's lucky, but also, I think Ciudad del Este is probably the right place to offload a bike quickly for a reasonable price in SA.

If you go to sell in Ciudad del Este, you should stay in Foz do Iguassu (the brazilian side) because it's much safer and cleaner (but EXPENSIVE). Crossing the bridge is not a problem at all (no one ever asks you anything, I crossed it maybe 10 times, with luggase and without).
In any case - if you go there contact Rodolfo ("Iguassu falls Quati" on hubb), he's an incredibly helpful guy, knows the towns, and he told me that he'll be happy to help other moto-travelers as well. Could not thank him enough!
Also, "Vorteks" (from the hubb) helped me a lot with info on Asuncion. Thanks!

Punta Arenas : read several times of people selling bikes there to locals because of different tax laws. Wish I would have known that when I was there. So if you can try and sell there before going north - try that (and write about it).

Well, definitely Punta Arenas (or Iquique in Northern Chile) seems to be tho only legal option. I use to spilt my time between Punta Arenas and Buenos Aires and can tell you that a) in Punta Arenas is absolutely legal although not necessarily the best place to get big money as the "market" is pretty small, an b) in Buenos Aires you may find someone eager to pay probably a bigger amount on cash, but certainly not legal; I wouldn´t reccommend that way.

Send me a PM and may try to help you.

[Ruthrad]

Originally Posted by Salva

Well, definitely Punta Arenas (or Iquique in Northern Chile) seems to be tho only legal option. I use to spilt my time between Punta Arenas and Buenos Aires and can tell you that a) in Punta Arenas is absolutely legal although not necessarily the best place to get big money as the "market" is pretty small, an b) in Buenos Aires you may find someone eager to pay probably a bigger amount on cash, but certainly not legal; I wouldn´t reccommend that way.

Send me a PM and may try to help you.

clearly you didn't read the whole thing (and I don't blame you, it's pretty long and detailed, but that's the purpose), so first the bike is sold, and second Paraguay is definitely a legal option as well.

[sean spain]

Thanx Ruthrad!

And to everyone else who has replied.

This thread contains valuable information, that surprisingly... seems quite hard to find... given the number of people riding south and selling there bikes.

I've been scouring the internet on and off for the last weeks about how and where to sell a bike in SA, and this thread has the most relevant, clear and up to date info I've seen (so far). I've still got three months of riding joy left, the Punta Arenas option will suite me the best if I can find a buyer. Its a long haul back to Paraguay!

Thanx again matey, would be so good if there was a way to compile all related post's and info under one forum title in Horizons Unlimited, as it seems there are many people trying to sell instead of ship.

Adios,

Sean

[Adv Grifter]

Originally Posted by GastonUSAChile

Selling the bike to a tourist is ok but then USCustoms will notice it at the time of reentry and penalties and duties willl be imposed.

Good comments! But this one bit above is incorrect.
US Immigrations/Customs at land borders don't care about the vehicle your riding or it's origin or any thing like that. Ride through.

They DO run the plate in the computer ... but only to see if the bike is stolen or owner wanted. If bike has been reported stolen ... then you have a problem. The fact the owner listed does not match you is not a problem for them ... long as YOU are not wanted and as long as the BIKE is not stolen. ALL OK.

So, no problem at all to ride in on your bike that is NOT in your name and is showing foreign license plates. ALL OK.

HOWEVER ... meeting local law enforcement down the road may be more interesting. As a tourist (NON US National) you should be OK. As long as YOU have a visa for yourself ... your vehicle is of little importance to the cops.

BUT ...
If you are a US citizen ... you may get a ticket and be required to register the bike ... and that could be a problem.

Problem is ... you can never register it in most US states. Some states it is still possible but unlikely. This is due to EPA and DOT regulations that are there to protect home markets and official importers. That said, I know several friends who've ridden Euro plated bikes for YEARS in the USA as tourists! (using foreign ID) Local cops don't check Visa's (yet).

[Rods]

After the trip would be good if you could sell it for a fair price as Ruthrad did in Paraguay, but the transaction is not so simple like it seems to be. i'm the guy who helped ruthrad and many other bikers to sell, to send or even storing bikes bikes in Iguazu that's the border with Paraguay.
It gets a bit complicated because the person who is buying it knows it costs some good money to send it back home and also he needs to spend some amount to legalise in Paraguay, i don't know exactly how much it costs but i know it's not so cheao and varies according to the size and year of the bike. So you think about making money on the sale, forget it, but if you think it's not worth sending the the loved machine back home and you're able to negotiate the price, definetly Paraguay is a good option, and we're here to help every single biker, there's a small hostel that belongs to m friend "iguassu motorcycle travellers hostel" with safe parking and loads of fellow bikers here to help on whatever you may need, from parts to tickets.

Iguazu, Brazil has a international Airport, also is a quick way to get flights or a bus to Santiago or BA. Any help needed or information please get in touch with us.

Rod
www.bikershelpdesk.blogspot.com

[Willson]

hi everyone,

Ruthrad, thanks a lot for summurizing all that info. Great help !
Could you just tell us a little more about your bike and how much you got for it ? Just to get a rough idea on the market over there.
I am in Argentina right now and trying to figure out a good way to sell the bike.
Cheers !

[Acampao]

Originally Posted by Adv Grifter

Good comments! But this one bit above is incorrect.

Problem is ... you can never register it in most US states. Some states it is still possible but unlikely. This is due to EPA and DOT regulations that are there to protect home markets and official importers. That said, I know several friends who've ridden Euro plated bikes for YEARS in the USA as tourists! (using foreign ID) Local cops don't check Visa's (yet).

Double check. While in Texas on a non-immigrant visa, I imported a used Harley from Chile and registered it without any problem. Thing is it was a US made bike, but still had a metric speedometer and stuff.

[Rods]

Originally Posted by Willson

hi everyone,

Ruthrad, thanks a lot for summurizing all that info. Great help !
Could you just tell us a little more about your bike and how much you got for it ? Just to get a rough idea on the market over there.
I am in Argentina right now and trying to figure out a good way to sell the bike.
Cheers !

Hey mate,

Saw you're trying to sell the bike, I've helped many bikers here in Iguazu with all problems and I helped Ruthrad to sell his bike in PY. If you need any help give me a shall, send some pics and i'll contact the potential buyers and then you get a quick response and then decide what to do, send some pics and I'll put you in touch. Or if you're just passing by Iguazu(Brazil side) give a shall for a drink ok.







Cheers

Rod
www.bikershelpdesk.blogspot.com

[Willson]

hey Rod ! Just sent you a PM.

[Adv Grifter]

Originally Posted by Acampao

Double check. While in Texas on a non-immigrant visa, I imported a used Harley from Chile and registered it without any problem. Thing is it was a US made bike, but still had a metric speedometer and stuff.

Well ... there you go! Since it originated in the USA ... it's A OK to register it in any US state. The VIN number (I guess) is not flagged in that situation.

My main point is all the NON us riders who think the guy at the border is going to hassle them about their foreign bike. Border/Homeland security don't deal with vehicles. They deal with people. If your visa is OK then you are in. How you deal with the bike later is another matter.

They WILL note the license number on their computer when you pass through and they will scan your passport. So you are in the data base. But bike registration legalities are left to the states to sort out.

[MCTravler]

I have been working on a project here in Lima since November , the project should be completed by March-April.
I have posted a couple of WTB with not much interest?? if any one has a bike worthy of a trip back North to the US
PM me. It may be possible for me to fly to Chlie if necssary for the deal and or to pick up the bike.
Thanks

[Adv Grifter]

Originally Posted by MCTravler

I have been working on a project here in Lima since November , the project should be completed by March-April.
I have posted a couple of WTB with not much interest?? if any one has a bike worthy of a trip back North to the US
PM me. It may be possible for me to fly to Chlie if necssary for the deal and or to pick up the bike.
Thanks

Several bikes posted for sale now down in Punta Arenas. Check Horizon's.
A DL650 Vstrom and one or two DR650's were up. One very cheap. Get on a bus and go. Legal transfer is possible there.

[Acampao]

Originally Posted by Adv Grifter

Several bikes posted for sale now down in Punta Arenas. Check Horizon's.
A DL650 Vstrom and one or two DR650's were up. One very cheap. Get on a bus and go. Legal transfer is possible there.

That's going to be a looong bus ride from Lima. Better save for air tickets.
Also, keep in mind that zona franca bikes have some restrictions, in case you plan to get back to Chile further north.

[Ruthrad]

So this is an old thread but since it provides some potentially very useful information for travelers in this kind of dilemma, and following the other posts here - I'd like to add some perspective and information to it. Following more updates from Rod (rodolfofoz@hotmail.com) about helping more and more bikers with selling their bikes to everyone's satisfaction in Ciudad del Este, just like he wrote above - anyone looking for a simple and most importantly a tried and tested and quick solution, go to Foz do Iguazzu, contact Rodolfo either by mail or PM or through his new (for me) blog - www.bikershelpdesk.blogspot.com.
In the time that passed since I've had the pleasure of meeting, he wasn't resting (that is something that he doesn't seem capable of) - and he now has a great moto-hostel (or rather a moto-villa), so even if you don't need any help, but just accommodation, or don't need anything but are passing though the area - go buy him a beer for me :)) he's an amazing guy and one of the kindest people I met on the road!

[Sandino]

Hey mate, I am located in Paraguay. If you still got the bike, and looking to sell, let me know, send some pics as the link in the first page is not longer working, and the price of course. rirolone at hotmail dot com.
cheers