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Old 07-28-2005, 09:46 PM   #1
vrago OP
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ICE - emergency contact

not a bad idea...

http://icecontact.com/index.html
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Old 07-29-2005, 09:25 AM   #2
Hannda
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vrago
not a bad idea...
A self-fulfilling prophecy?
I've been reading about this ICE concept in emails for a few weeks. Like you, I think it's probably a great idea. One of the guys who hangs out in JoMomma, Jurgen, apparently is an EMT. He posted that he'd never heard of it, but like everyone else thought it was a good idea. Now, in today's newspaper (Colorado Springs Gazette) there's an article about it. Guess it's time to enter a few ICE numbers in my cell phone as well.
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Old 08-11-2005, 10:00 AM   #3
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good one, makes sense to someone like me, in SAfrica.

Cheers, advice taken and entered into Cell.
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Old 08-11-2005, 10:12 AM   #4
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Old 08-11-2005, 12:34 PM   #5
JustinCase
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Ice

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hannda
A self-fulfilling prophecy?
I've been reading about this ICE concept in emails for a few weeks. Like you, I think it's probably a great idea. One of the guys who hangs out in JoMomma, Jurgen, apparently is an EMT. He posted that he'd never heard of it, but like everyone else thought it was a good idea. .
I work Jersey City EMS. and each in our department just recieved an E-Mail this week regarding ICE. My department has responded to over 59,000 9-1-1 requests since Jan 1st, and we like to think of ourselves as "cutting edge" (we carry nerve agent antidote kits (NAAK's) and pilot quite a few new programs for the state. To tell you the truth, I am not sure why I need to know about it, anyway. I don't have the time to call while enroute to the hosptal. My hands are already full. The second point of interest is HIPPA. There are all sorts of patient privacy laws that the healthcare community is on their toes about. Does ICE count as legal consent?? If I put my fiance as my ICE contact she is still unable to make medical decisions for me. I can still pick up a mobile phone and look for "home" or hit a speed dial.
Better question to ask. Does anyone else put their blood type, name, contact info, medical conditions, medications, allergies in the helmet lining????? I always look in a rider's helmet liner. THIS IS INFORMATION THAT CAN REALLY HELP EMS AND THE E.D./TRAUMA DEPARTMENTS. If not make sure your ICE contact knows it.
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Old 08-11-2005, 01:47 PM   #6
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Quote:
Better question to ask. Does anyone else put their blood type, name, contact info, medical conditions, medications, allergies in the helmet lining????? I always look in a rider's helmet liner. THIS IS INFORMATION THAT CAN REALLY HELP EMS AND THE E.D./TRAUMA DEPARTMENTS. If not make sure your ICE contact knows it.
So, as an EMT, you would recommend removing the helmet from a person who was in an accident? If so, why? Wouldn't an EMT stabilize the head/neck to help prevent a spinal injury? I am not one, so I am asking. I do not ride much street, but I have my emergency info in my billfold, and would have never thought to put anything inside of my helmet.
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Old 08-11-2005, 04:01 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drzflip
So, as an EMT, you would recommend removing the helmet from a person who was in an accident? If so, why? Wouldn't an EMT stabilize the head/neck to help prevent a spinal injury? I am not one, so I am asking. I do not ride much street, but I have my emergency info in my billfold, and would have never thought to put anything inside of my helmet.
Iwas under the impression you should never remove a rider's helmet after an accident. Is there something else we should know?
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Old 08-11-2005, 07:19 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustinCase
Better question to ask. Does anyone else put their blood type, name, contact info, medical conditions, medications, allergies in the helmet lining????? I always look in a rider's helmet liner. THIS IS INFORMATION THAT CAN REALLY HELP EMS AND THE E.D./TRAUMA DEPARTMENTS. If not make sure your ICE contact knows it.
I do something slightly different.

I made up a laminated card for the windowed ID pocket on the front of my jacket (or the top spot in my wallet if I'm wearing a different jacket) that has in bold type, in order: Name, blood type, "no known drug allergies," "no current medical condition," "no current medication," my doctor's name and number, med insurance company/contact/ID#, and two emrgency contacts. The other side (the one I leave facing out) has, in really big letters, "EMERGENCY INFO."
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Old 08-11-2005, 07:37 PM   #9
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helmet on/off question

when justincase refers to taking a patient's helmet off after a crash, he is talking about EMT/paramedic/ED procedure, not "do this at home" stuff. the helmet has to come off, eventually. but let the professionals do it.
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Old 08-11-2005, 07:44 PM   #10
Frank Warner
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We are fortunate here that St John run a motorcyclist first aid course that teaches when and how to remove a helmut. One day and $90 is a very small ask.

You EMTs etc list all the stuff you want ... but the first person on the scene does not need blood type etc .. totally useless .. Think about the priority of the info ... things like

Epipen carried where
Ventilator carried where
Insulin carried where
Drugs for heart attack carried where

Those should be top of the list ... just after the phot id!

FYFFs for thinking only of the patent when they get to ewes
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Old 08-11-2005, 10:25 PM   #11
JustinCase
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drzflip
So, as an EMT, you would recommend removing the helmet from a person who was in an accident? If so, why? Wouldn't an EMT stabilize the head/neck to help prevent a spinal injury? I am not one, so I am asking. I do not ride much street, but I have my emergency info in my billfold, and would have never thought to put anything inside of my helmet.
This is an excellent question!!! I should have been more clear. Don't touch the helmet. I would encourage anyone who is first on scene to ONLY remove the helmet unless you need to perform rescue breathing (mouth to mouth, mouth to mask or bag/valve mask) using jaw thrust as opposed to head/tilt chin lift. There is no other reason.I take the helmet off for one reason only. Airway. If airway is comprimised and I have to ventilate or suction, it's coming off (albeit very carefully)
I was speaking of the healthcare team needing vital information. I work at a trauma center, I deliver the unconscious (or altered mental status) patient, The doctor removes the helmet, (yes I am still there for this part) I always look in the helmet liner. Frank, not saying that it doesn't happen, but I have never been on a job involving a motorcyclist having an anaphalactic reaction, athsma attack, chest pain/mi or diabetic emergency, so far 100% of have been trauma. PS. don't mess with insulin until you've checked the blood glucose level (BGL). High and low BGL's have similar signs and symptoms Those things you listed are important too, and can fit on the very same piece of paper. You seem a bit defensive about blood type not being a priority, but I ask you how much space on this piece of paper does "O+" take up. Quickmule has it down perfect, The Emergency info card is perfect, I'm just worried about the info being separated from the patient.
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Old 08-11-2005, 10:30 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urbancowboy
when justincase refers to taking a patient's helmet off after a crash, he is talking about EMT/paramedic/ED procedure, not "do this at home" stuff. the helmet has to come off, eventually. but let the professionals do it.
yup. the only exception as stated before is to perform rescue breathing before professional help arrives.
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Old 08-11-2005, 11:15 PM   #13
JustinCase
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Warner
We are fortunate here that St John run a motorcyclist first aid course that teaches when and how to remove a helmut. One day and $90 is a very small ask.

You EMTs etc list all the stuff you want ... but the first person on the scene does not need blood type etc .. totally useless .. Think about the priority of the info ... things like

Epipen carried where
Ventilator carried where
Insulin carried where
Drugs for heart attack carried where

Those should be top of the list ... just after the phot id!

FYFFs for thinking only of the patent when they get to ewes
One day? That's like a 6 week course of study to become board certified in Neurosurgery.
I'll refrain from making "ventilator" comments and assume you meant "inhaler" The fact that they take insulin (and have diabetes) is important. Epi-pens are great if you KNOW that they are anaphalactic. If I had a stroke (bleed), I certainly don't want EPI, It's a vasoconstrictor that boosts blood pressure. The vasodialators (heart attack meds) are only given to conscious patients (who can tell you where they keep it) and great care must be taken that you don't bottom out their blood pressure. National Registry uses a systolic pressure of 100 as a cutoff. The brain doesn't get perfused well with 80/40 bp. I guess I'd prefer if you don't up to me and stab me with my epi-autoinjector, spray my inhaler at me, draw up arbitrary amounts of insulin (not knowing my glucose level) into a syringe and injecting it (where exactly?) and feeding me sublingual nitro's. I also don't understand your enthusiasm over a photo ID. One thing that course neglected to teach you was your limitations.
You are certainly free to put whatever info you'd like on your emergency info card, but don't sway others with your '90 dollar, one day's worth of education' into making the same mistake. I offered my advice. ...I don't know what you do for a living, but chances are good that you know a lot more about it than I do.

JustinCase screwed with this post 08-11-2005 at 11:34 PM
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Old 08-12-2005, 05:46 AM   #14
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This is a great thread. I would like to hear more from Frank, Justincase, others who have knowledge and experience. There are other medical professionals here, as well as folks who have had extensive emergency training through the military, track event training etc.

Some of the posts are sounding a little touchy. I hope it doesn't slide into a personal exchange that discourages participation. When the thread theme is whose bike is better or which political party has the stupidest elected officials, have at each other. But on this issue, I appreciate good information.
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Old 08-12-2005, 07:36 AM   #15
mlaotn
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Another ICE Idea

This is quoted from a discussion of this topic by the Indy BMW Club. The message was posted by Bob Munday. His credentials are listed at the end of the message.


BMW Owners,


<<< from the Georgia List - Steve and Paula Smith wrote: Here's an
idea that would work great for those of us in the motorcycle community.
Following the attacks in London, East Anglian Ambulance Service has
launched a national "In Case of Emergency ( ICE ) " campaign. The idea
is that you store the word " ICE " in your mobile phone address book,
and against it enter the number of the person you would want to be
contacted "In Case of Emergency". >>>

There has been much discussion of this on the Big List... from broken
phones to stolen phones to no phones at all. Emergency personnel are
not going to take the time to find your cell phone, attempt to unlock it
and search the directory on an unfamiliar phone for an ICE entry.

I have a better suggestion - MedicAlert. Emergency medical personnel
are trained to look for MedicAlert bracelets or necklaces when checking
the injured for a pulse and respiration. I wear a necklace engraved
with a summary of my medical condition, a unique ID number and a
telephone number which emergency personnel can call collect on a
telephone which has not been damaged in an accident. MedicAlert is
immediately available and has my detailed medical outline, list of
medications, list of related items and the names of doctors and
emergency contacts. You can read more about it at www.MedicAlert.org .
This could prevent you from being incorrectly treated if you have
allergies or reactions to substances or medication. The MedicAlert
folks are always there. The same cannot be said for an emergency
contact. Even if you don't take medication or have allergies, the
subscription cost is well worth the benefits of having your information,
all of it, readily and immediately available.



Robert Munday... Montgomery, AL `98 R11CHP `95 R1100RSL
Village Idiot Rolling Broccoli Rider BOOF #131 SR#2
Nebraska Nightriders Big Sioux Riders Indy BMW Club
Beemer Hill Riders EC Riders Trustee, BMWMOA Foundation
Keeper Of The List *Iron Bunny*
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