ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > Trials
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 03-09-2012, 03:35 PM   #61
PSchrauber
Studly Adventurer
 
PSchrauber's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2011
Location: Summer: Kemiö, Finland; Winter: North Germany
Oddometer: 835
Oh and it's not fair to compare a TLR with a 78 Bultaco in my view.

Surly it would be fair to compare a 100kg heavy TL with a 78 Bultaco Sherpa.
PSchrauber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2012, 07:29 PM   #62
Twin-shocker
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Jan 2012
Oddometer: 1,673
[QUOTE=PSchrauber;18177739]But we are discussing here about standard Tshocks TLR and even about Reflex models. Anyway it is very good to be total confident about the bike you are riding with. This is good for the own ego and helps to concentrate yourself about the course and how to react.

Anyway I will go further in the discussion about the modified TLR's where a good one was the Seeley Hondas that where sold back then, it was with 84kg the lightest Honda twinshock ever build. If you compare it to the standard TLR 200 that had 89kg, the TLR

Facts TLR 200:
weight front: 38 kg
weight back: 51 kg
wheelbase: 1335mm
height bashplate: 305mm
height bar: 1010mm
steering angle: 67°

Facts SWM TL.NW 320:
weight: 85kg
weight front: 38 kg
weight back: 47 kg
wheelbase: 1330mm
height bashplate: 320mm
heigt bar: 1015mm
steering angle: 67°

I don't see many geometrical surplus factors here, the engine power is by the way much better for the two stroke,
and I forgot the engine power of the 250cc, 15HP, the 200cc had 13 HP.

Anyway these bike are good and nice looking machines, but they where not competetive in national level, surly at club level.[/QUOTE

In terms of stock bikes an unmodified TLR is not a lot of good, however the beauty of these little bikes is how easy and cheaply they can be altered to work far far better!

I owned an SWM once, and cant say I would ever want to repeat the experience..................lol
Twin-shocker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2012, 07:30 PM   #63
neilking
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Mar 2008
Location: Austin, TX
Oddometer: 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by Twin-shocker View Post
Simple way to improve a TLR very noticeably is to fit Mikuni pit bike carb, remove air cleaner flame trap, and cut slot into top of air box and fit Sherco filter element and filter retainer, fit WES exhaust with internal baffle elements removed, and a Chinese pit bike CDI unit which provides more advance at lower engine speeds.

They can be further improved by steepening the steering angle a couple of degrees, lowering footrest mounts a little, and fitting a Wiseco XR200 piston, which is higher compression. With the alterations above the little TLR works very well indeed and is far superior to any P78 TS bike, is fun to ride and in the right hands is quite capable of winning TS competition at any level.

What pit bike? Which Mikuni carb? What jetting? I think the Honda air filter is fine, just the box itself is restrictive. What chinese cdi, there are a bunch out there? Saying "pit bike" is poor identification.
__________________
74 TY 80, 175 and 250 no longer at Brewtus's house
86 TLR200
95 Sportster 1200
13 Factory Beta 250
neilking is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2012, 07:37 PM   #64
Twin-shocker
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Jan 2012
Oddometer: 1,673
Quote:
Originally Posted by PSchrauber View Post
Oh and it's not fair to compare a TLR with a 78 Bultaco in my view.

Surly it would be fair to compare a 100kg heavy TL with a 78 Bultaco Sherpa.
Neither the TL or the TLR were proper trials bikes as such, both being sort of trail/trial hybrids, which Honda thought would be ideal for the US market. On the other hand the Sherpa was a pure competition bike, with many years of development work behind it, so its even more surprising that a TLR with a few simple mods works so very well.
Twin-shocker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2012, 07:50 PM   #65
neilking
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Mar 2008
Location: Austin, TX
Oddometer: 430
"In terms of stock bikes an unmodified TLR is not a lot of good, however the beauty of these little bikes is how easy and cheaply they can be altered to work far far better!"


What exactly do you consider cheap? $350 for shocks, $50 for decent levers, $75 for gearing, $200 for handle bars and risers, $200 for tires, $200 for new wheels? What about that heavy ass gas tank? $ 500 for tank seat combo, $700 for WES exhaust, $200 for mystery pit bike parts. Anybody got a calculator?
__________________
74 TY 80, 175 and 250 no longer at Brewtus's house
86 TLR200
95 Sportster 1200
13 Factory Beta 250
neilking is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2012, 08:16 PM   #66
PSchrauber
Studly Adventurer
 
PSchrauber's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2011
Location: Summer: Kemiö, Finland; Winter: North Germany
Oddometer: 835
Quote:
Originally Posted by Twin-shocker View Post

...

In terms of stock bikes an unmodified TLR is not a lot of good, however the beauty of these little bikes is how easy and cheaply they can be altered to work far far better!

I owned an SWM once, and cant say I would ever want to repeat the experience..................lol
Your experience with the SWM, that has to be explained in comparision to the TLR.

BTW:
I had a four-stroke trials bike too if I haven't mentioned yet??? An Italjet Scott, only build in very limited numbers, engine was based on a two-stroke "basement" with a four-stroke head, (like the early Husqvarna four strokes). A good bike for trails but only clublevel for trials. The weight was equal to the TLR 250 despite that the bike had 320cc and had twice as much grunt then the Honda in standard outfit. Geometrical the bikeframe shared the standard Piuma. I don't believe there where ever sold some to the US?
PSchrauber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2012, 08:27 PM   #67
neilking
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Mar 2008
Location: Austin, TX
Oddometer: 430
I got 2 problems with the TLR200; it ain't got no power, and it's got a badonkadonk bigger than Snookie.
__________________
74 TY 80, 175 and 250 no longer at Brewtus's house
86 TLR200
95 Sportster 1200
13 Factory Beta 250
neilking is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2012, 08:54 PM   #68
brewtus
Buffoonery, Inc.
 
brewtus's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2008
Location: Albuquerque, not New, not Mexico.......
Oddometer: 2,860
Quote:
Originally Posted by neilking View Post
"In terms of stock bikes an unmodified TLR is not a lot of good, however the beauty of these little bikes is how easy and cheaply they can be altered to work far far better!"


What exactly do you consider cheap? $350 for shocks, $50 for decent levers, $75 for gearing, $200 for handle bars and risers, $200 for tires, $200 for new wheels? What about that heavy ass gas tank? $ 500 for tank seat combo, $700 for WES exhaust, $200 for mystery pit bike parts. Anybody got a calculator?

Less than $400 in OJ to this day. I built it 4 years ago, still largely stock. Screw the mods, learn to ride the pig. THAT'S how you succeed in Trials.


Quote:
Originally Posted by neilking View Post
What pit bike? Which Mikuni carb? What jetting? I think the Honda air filter is fine, just the box itself is restrictive. What chinese cdi, there are a bunch out there? Saying "pit bike" is poor identification.
Ah, no. Not only no, but hell no. Not only hell no, but are you faaaakin' kiddin' me??

Let's run the scenario. *Putt putt putt*, turn, *putt putt*, set up for obstacle, *putt*, rev, cough-die, front tire goes into face of (rock, log, anthill, whatever), foot down, get a 5, utter (not so softly) "WHAT THE F*CK!!!" , push dead TLR back to pits with the stench of a smoldering Chinese CDI unit burning in your nostrils, get a DNF, get even madder, quit Trials, sell (your no-longer running) TLR for nothing, lose all hope, grow a long beard, start collecting cats, get a spot on "Hoarders" when you start collecting balls of lint, die alone and emaciated in your house full of lint, cats, and failure.

No thanks. Gennie Honda CDI units (in the hands of those who can actually ride) are just fine, thank you. The Chinese crap is best left to the wrecking yards (the local ones stopped taking in Chinese crap years ago, for good reason, FYI).



Quote:
Originally Posted by neilking View Post
I got 2 problems with the TLR200; it ain't got no power, and it's got a badonkadonk bigger than Snookie.

__________________
Work hard. Play hard.
Team Dead End. The drinking team with a Trials problem.
2-Time winner of the coveted "Best Shenanigans" award at Capt. Rick's annual BBQ.

brewtus screwed with this post 03-09-2012 at 09:06 PM Reason: Killing me softly with his....Chinese CDI....Ruining my whole world, with his crap....
brewtus is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2012, 09:19 PM   #69
NMTrailboss
Team Dead End
 
NMTrailboss's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2008
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Oddometer: 5,975
Quote:
Originally Posted by brewtus View Post
Ah, no. Not only no, but hell no. Not only hell no, but are you faaaakin' kiddin' me??

Let's run the scenario. *Putt putt putt*, turn, *putt putt*, set up for obstacle, *putt*, rev, cough-die, front tire goes into face of (rock, log, anthill, whatever), foot down, get a 5, utter (not so softly) "WHAT THE F*CK!!!" , push dead TLR back to pits with the stench of a smoldering Chinese CDI unit burning in your nostrils, get a DNF, get even madder, quit Trials, sell (your no-longer running) TLR for nothing, lose all hope, grow a long beard, start collecting cats, get a spot on "Hoarders" when you start collecting balls of lint, die alone and emaciated in your house full of lint, cats, and failure.

No thanks. Gennie Honda CDI units (in the hands of those who can actually ride) are just fine, thank you. The Chinese crap is best left to the wrecking yards (the local ones stopped taking in Chinese crap years ago, for good reason, FYI).

__________________
NMTrailboss is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2012, 12:43 AM   #70
Twin-shocker
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Jan 2012
Oddometer: 1,673
Quote:
Originally Posted by neilking View Post
"In terms of stock bikes an unmodified TLR is not a lot of good, however the beauty of these little bikes is how easy and cheaply they can be altered to work far far better!"


What exactly do you consider cheap? $350 for shocks, $50 for decent levers, $75 for gearing, $200 for handle bars and risers, $200 for tires, $200 for new wheels? What about that heavy ass gas tank? $ 500 for tank seat combo, $700 for WES exhaust, $200 for mystery pit bike parts. Anybody got a calculator?
Other than the gearing there is no real need for any of the parts you suggest, unless the OE Honda parts are very poor. Its possible to upgrade the TLR motor for less than £200, which may sound expensive to someone in the US, but here in the UK where people are spending up to £10K on TS bikes is pretty cheap!
Twin-shocker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2012, 12:47 AM   #71
Twin-shocker
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Jan 2012
Oddometer: 1,673
Quote:
Originally Posted by neilking View Post
What pit bike? Which Mikuni carb? What jetting? I think the Honda air filter is fine, just the box itself is restrictive. What chinese cdi, there are a bunch out there? Saying "pit bike" is poor identification.
How have you altered your TLR? Or do you only use it for trail riding?
Twin-shocker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2012, 11:47 AM   #72
TXNMGUY
dirt dobber
 
Joined: Sep 2010
Location: Pagosa Springs, CO.
Oddometer: 99
Quote:
Damn cool, even if I have no desire to do it.

Since you are relatively new here, this is how you post pics here on ADV-

http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=919

I'd love to see pics of your TY and Fantic. Your stroker build should have some pretty cool pics also!!
Mr. Tshocker, as Mr. Brewtus mentioned in another thread, I am waiting for the photos.
TXNMGUY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2012, 01:49 PM   #73
ridenm
not waiting anymore
 
ridenm's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2010
Location: Carnuel, NM USA
Oddometer: 2,553
Quote:
Originally Posted by brewtus View Post
...start collecting balls of lint...
I'll have you know, sir, that I'm very proud of my lint-ball collection.
ridenm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2012, 02:52 PM   #74
PSchrauber
Studly Adventurer
 
PSchrauber's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2011
Location: Summer: Kemiö, Finland; Winter: North Germany
Oddometer: 835
Quote:
Originally Posted by TXNMGUY View Post
Mr. Tshocker, as Mr. Brewtus mentioned in another thread, I am waiting for the photos.

I'am just rebuilding my 1979 Yamaha TY 125 I now own over 30 years, the 123cc the engine have will in future gain to 200cc, I just got the enhanced 200cc kit together with the first batch of gaskets and seals, (cylinderhead not shown):





The intake was ported, (before blasting and rebore to 200cc), for mounting the reeds from the 250 TY. I have just started the project. The bike will too get the forks from the TY mono as the original ones are too flexible, the rear
will get also a new pair of shocks. To the frame I haven't made up my mind, there are Whitlock (Majesty) frames still available, the A and B model, we will see, then might be an aluminium tank, another carb, a new exhaust, (old one is clogged), and then I hope I have good TShock bike. I personal believe it will outperform any Reflex, ... maybe as good as my SWM but not good as my Sherpa.
PSchrauber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2012, 04:45 PM   #75
brewtus
Buffoonery, Inc.
 
brewtus's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2008
Location: Albuquerque, not New, not Mexico.......
Oddometer: 2,860
Sweet!! Keep us posted on the progress!
__________________
Work hard. Play hard.
Team Dead End. The drinking team with a Trials problem.
2-Time winner of the coveted "Best Shenanigans" award at Capt. Rick's annual BBQ.
brewtus is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 08:57 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014