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Old 03-02-2012, 02:22 PM   #16
troidus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by H96669 View Post
Installing a distributor....you have to put the engine at TDC first, then follow spark plug wire Number 1 to the distributor cap, then line everything up.
If all he's doing is a quick R&R, there's no need to go to the trouble of dead timing it. Now if he were going to pull the old distributor and tear it apart for new bushings and might not get back to it for awhile, then yes. If he were going to dead time it, I would recommend putting #1 at TDC before pulling the old distributor to make engaging the oil pump drive easier when installing the new one.
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Old 03-02-2012, 02:34 PM   #17
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Dude!! That's so freaking cool! Hey it might turn into a money pit, but what the hell huh? Its a cool car.
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Old 03-02-2012, 03:40 PM   #18
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Old 03-02-2012, 03:45 PM   #19
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Old 03-02-2012, 06:56 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by troidus View Post
If all he's doing is a quick R&R, there's no need to go to the trouble of dead timing it. Now if he were going to pull the old distributor and tear it apart for new bushings and might not get back to it for awhile, then yes. If he were going to dead time it, I would recommend putting #1 at TDC before pulling the old distributor to make engaging the oil pump drive easier when installing the new one.
Yeah...looks like someone before the OP was doing such quick R&R on that Ford. Not knowing if the distributor is even at the right place....good way to send someone for unnecessary carb rebuilds. Pif...Paf...sounds the same, bad carb or timing off by a tooth.

5 minutes or less finding TDC on them old Fords and checking firing order/rotor enlignment.
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Old 03-02-2012, 08:07 PM   #21
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Old 03-02-2012, 09:20 PM   #22
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Post up on this forum and you will find all you need to know about your Ford. The Hamb is like ADV Rider, but for old cars like that. Cool car.
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Old 03-02-2012, 10:52 PM   #23
troidus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by H96669 View Post
Yeah...looks like someone before the OP was doing such quick R&R on that Ford. Not knowing if the distributor is even at the right place....good way to send someone for unnecessary carb rebuilds. Pif...Paf...sounds the same, bad carb or timing off by a tooth.

5 minutes or less finding TDC on them old Fords and checking firing order/rotor enlignment.
From the rust on the vacuum advance can, that distributor has been in there for at least 20 years, so the dead timing can't be too far off unless some yahoo pulled it for grins. Assuming it's off, the only way to make it "right" is to go by the procedure in the factory service manual. More likely is that the points and rotor are worn, &/or the idle circuits are full of crap. Also, the vacuum line is missing, so there is probably a pretty good vacuum leak at the carb causing a lean idle condition. I'd fix all of that first before worrying about whether the distributor is not in the ideal spot. A timing light will tell whether it's in the ballpark or not.

OP, if someone did install the distributor off a tooth, it can still be timed correctly as long as the advance can doesn't hit anything and the plug wires don't end up being stretched. It's just not ideal.
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Old 03-03-2012, 04:02 AM   #24
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A good friend is restoring this exact car. His was probably in worse shape than yours and it has been interesting to watch it take shape. What has surprised me is the fact that you can buy sheet metal and even parts of the frame that were known to rot out. The original 6 cyl. has been plucked & he will go back with a 289 that he has "built":-)

The plan is to have it ready to take to the Hot Rod Reunion in Bowling Green, KY around mid-June. I'll probably go and check that out as it's only a 2 hr. drive & supposed to be a pretty big deal.

Looking forward to watching your build.
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Old 03-03-2012, 04:02 AM   #25
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Cool project.

The vacuum line to the distributor almost certainly connects to the brass fitting in this photo, the one pointing toward the camera near the base of the carburetor:



IIRC, Fords had rigid metal vacuum lines; you can buy pre-made lines at NAPA and probably other auto parts stores. As far as setting the ignition timing at idle, I was told (in an auto shop class by an experienced mechanic) that you leave the vacuum line connected to check the timing if it's a rigid line like this. If it's a rubber hose like on many cars, you disconnect it at the distributor and plug it prior to checking the timing.

BTW- you've also already got an automatic choke (the round black gizmo on the side of the carb in the photo above). It has a coil spring in it (sort of like the mainspring in a mechanical clock) that closes the choke when it's cold and opens it as it warms up. There may be a steel line that goes from that down to the heat riser on the intake manifold.

The fact that you got the thing to fire up at all seems pretty hopeful to me. Stick with it a while; it might turn out to be a good old car.
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Old 03-03-2012, 09:46 AM   #26
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OK, long time Ford guy here so I hope I can help.

First and foremost...the 221 is the smallest small block Ford made. The lineage is 221,260,289,302 (5.0),351W. The 221,260 and first 289's (1964/65) had 5 bolt bellhousings, thus you can't just pull and swap with a late model 5.0 without addressing the bellhousing.

Second, that is a water operated choke. It is missing the metal "tang" that holds the heater hose against the choke housing. As the car heats up, the bi-metal spring moves, pulling the choke off. These are the most reliable, but slow acting of this type of choke.

This one appears to have the old metal style line for the carb to the vacuum advance on the distributor. Purchase a 1/8" hose nipple adapter for one or both sides and run a rubber tube. Disconnect it to check the timing (between 8 and 12 degrees advanced). You can bend a steel line if you like, but you would most likely have to shorten it and unless you flare tubing...run a short rubber hose. So what is the difference.

The upper hole on the choke side of the carb is for the heat riser tube. This brings heat from the exhaust manifold to the choke assembly so the choke remains off when the car is warm but not running (stopping at the store for an hour, etc). There should be a tube fitting on the passanger exhaust manifold (broken off I would guess) that feeds this port.

Always replace the points and condenser on something this old. Simple project, cheap (less than $15) and usually makes is start easier.

Just buy a carb rebuild kit...this is one of the basic Ford 2V carbs. If you spend more than $25 on the kit, you have spent too much. They usually sell for $19 or so. You will learn about carbs while rebuilding one of the easiest made. Get new base gaskets when you install it.

A new PCV valve if it has one. Some of the early ones use a "road draft" tube to vent the crankcase (I believe yours falls into this rehlm).

It uses standard Ford filters (FL1A Motorcraft, PH8A Fram, etc...the most common filter used for many years).

If you end up pulling the distributor, send an email, I will give you a nice step by step to make it start of the first turn after reinstall. You really shouldn't have to remove the distributor though.

Good luck...will be a fun, easy project.

Kenny
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Old 03-03-2012, 09:57 AM   #27
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Ok...looking at the carb installed picture...

the tin tube should hook into that rubber tube/tin tube off the exhuast manifold (heat riser...someone broke it and spliced it with rubber...won't work as well...at least fix it with a compression fitting).

The heater hose off the front should be held to the choke thermostat with the tang I am talking about. You could use zip ties but be careful you don't bind the choke mechanism.

It is timed right...you can tell my looking at the configuration of the cap and wires. It is a Ford so the cylinders are numbered down the passanger side 1234, the down the drivers side 5678. Firing order is 1,5,4,2,6,3,7,8 with the #6 wire run between the 7,8 to prevent cross firing (and yours is set up exactly right). # 1 cap spot is where I would expect it to be.

Fix the 2 choke issues first. The carb screws (should be 2 on the base plate pointing forward) should be out 2 full turns to start (start them fully turned in...no hard seated, soft seated, then turn them out 2 full turns). Once it is warmed up turn them in until you get a stumble, then back them out 1/2 turn. It should be close. Do this on both sides a few times (as each side will have a small effect on the other).

Kenny
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Old 03-03-2012, 11:12 AM   #28
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cool project

Will take longer and cost more than you expect but if you can keep your 11 yo close and interested ,lives will be expanded .
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Old 03-03-2012, 05:26 PM   #29
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If I were doing this, the very first thing I'd do would be to run a compression check to see if there are any internal problems like burnt valves or valves stuck open. There's no sense in doing a tuneup if it's not going to run on all 8 cylinders.
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Old 03-05-2012, 11:20 AM   #30
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Based on what i'm experiencing right now and a lot of the comments, I may just pull the engine apart and take a look at it to see what i'm dealing with. Friday night I tried to pull the distributor and it won't come loose from the engine. I can't figure why. So, rather then screw it to hell by pulling on it relentlessly, I'll start breaking down the engine to get it all sorted out. This way I can look at the innards and assess from there. If the internals are fucked, I'll look at other options. If they are good, i'll refresh seals, bearings, and what ever else I need to look at and go from there.

Also, I'll take a look at the provided link. I'll post up more pictures when I get home and can take some.
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