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Old 03-08-2012, 10:20 AM   #16
Leaf OP
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Here's the tug I'll be hanging it on. 1980 Honda Hawk (CB400T) with 9600 miles. $450 on Craigslist last year. The muffler baffles are shot. I'm going to put some $15 tractor mufflers on it whenever I get around to getting them. The compression is good, but like many low mileage bikes of that age, the carbs were varnished up.



The most common thing to put these bikes in the junkyard was the exciter coil going bad. When that happens, the timing does not advance, so it runs like a pig in upper RPMs and won't exceed 40 mph. I've only had it running on one cylinder and haven't tested the impedance of the stator, so I do not yet know if I'll have to re-wind the exciter coil or not. If I do end up having to re-wind it, I might just try to re-wind the entire stator while I'm at it... I certainly don't want to have to pay a stator shop $300 to do the work. >_>

The exhaust collector had a quarter-sized rust hole in it. By the time I knocked all of the rusty metal out and blew through it a few times trying to patch it, the hole was much bigger, and I ended up patching it with a piece of angle and some scrap sheetmetal.... Welded with a 40 year old AC stick welder and 6011 rod. Messy (yep, I'm a farm welder, not a professional >_>), but it's hard to weld that thin sheet metal, especially when it's rusted out that bad, with a stick. You have to turn the power way way down and strike the arc and go, or you'll blow right through that stuff.... I have a feeling I'll take the collector off and replace it with a crossover pipe when I put mufflers on it....





I took the carbs apart about 6 months ago to rebuild them, and then didn't. I had filmed myself taking them apart, so I could play it in reverse and see how things went back together, but I can't find the video now. -_-' This is going to be a fun puzzle for while I am sitting in the hotel this weekend on my work trip..... I do have both the Clymer and Honda service manuals, and the parts fiche, so hopefully that will be enough diagrams to figure it out...





Random parts that I took off so I could get to all of the frame to POR-15 it. The tank is in remarkably good shape on the inside, despite the scary paint. I think the ratty paint is growing on me, though.... I was going to strip it and paint it OD, but maybe I'll just leave it how it is......



Carb rebuild kit, including new jets, needles, and a/f screws. $23 from Japan.



Aftermarket intake boots. $56. The OE ones were sucking air really badly and had been painted with some kind of liquid rubber stuff. The new ones are pretty poor quality compared to the OE ones, but I couldn't find anything else. I am leery of NOS rubber parts of that age. The rubber deteriorates while they sit on the shelf....



Add in a can of flat black engine paint, to keep the headers and patched collector from rusting back out. $7.

Total spent on tug so far: $536
Total spent on hack so far: $1000

Grand total so far: $1536

At the very least, I am going to need a chain, a couple more o-rings for the fuel pipe between the carbs, and some mufflers, so I'll have to spend a little more before it's all said and done. Hopefully I can get hold of enough scrap to build the subframe and gusset the hack frame without having to buy anything. I have an 18" front rim from a CB400A on the way, but I'm not going to add it in until it gets here.

Leaf screwed with this post 03-20-2012 at 03:00 PM
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Old 03-09-2012, 04:32 AM   #17
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Weird. My right-hand carb on my tug is a VB22B, the proper model for a 1980 Hawk, but the left one is a VB31A, apparently from a european model Superdream. They're both 32mm, both have the same jets, and both vacuum pistons seem to be rising and falling at the same rate, so here's to hoping I don't hole a piston or something. :3

Does anyone know what the difference is between these two carbs? They appear to be identical, and all the parts are interchangeable...

Ironically, it's the proper-model carb that I have been having trouble with, lol.
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Old 03-09-2012, 05:02 PM   #18
KneeDrachen
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You're such a cheap bastard you should have bought a Ural.

Looking forward to the build!
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Old 03-10-2012, 12:37 AM   #19
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The carbs are back together, and the vacuum pistons seem to work right when I do the harmonica test, so I think we're good there. Bench synced with the strips of paper test. I left the 110 secondary jets (mostly because the kit only had 105s and 110s, no 115s) but upped the primary jets from 70 to 75. These bikes were jetted a little too lean from the factory, and I figure that the rusted out baffles will only exacerbate the problem...

I used some extra o-rings in the rebuild kit for the fuel cross pipe. They were the right diameter, but not quite thick enough, so it remains to be seen if they leak or not.

I left my camera at home, but everyone has seen the inside of a CV carb anyway, so you're not missing much. :3

I usually dig these work trips where I get to stay at fancy resorts, because of the awesome food that I am usually too cheap to buy unless work is paying for it. But I couldn't fit the rest of the bike in my luggage, so I am anxious to get home and see if it runs on both cylinders now.... <_<

Yus, I am a cheap bastard. I was going to buy a Ural to begin with, but I couldn't find one for under $6500. :P And omg the parts are expensive!

I tell folks that I am so tight that my toes curl when I blink. :P It's a result of working for an NGO, I guess. I have to save every penny so I have something to live on when we are between projects.

Any advice on setup for this rig? I've been figuring that since the bike and hack are so light, I'll give it a whole 12" of lead to try to make it less likely for me to flip it in a left-hander, and hopefully everything will be light enough that the scrubbing won't make the steering too heavy.

Leaf screwed with this post 03-10-2012 at 12:43 AM
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Old 03-10-2012, 04:00 PM   #20
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The aftermarket intake boots are complete junk, and don't draw down against the head properly. There's a good 1mm space, and I can see light all the way through. Apparently the flange doesn't have any metal in it.... >_<'

I guess I shall have to look for NOS parts instead. D: I think the old ones are probably too far gone to do anything with....
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Old 03-10-2012, 04:28 PM   #21
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Ordered NOS boots and o-rings from gearhead.... It's the only site that appears to have the part. I hope they really do have it and aren't just listing a discontinued part as being available....... $61.44.... D:=

Edit: Gearhead ended up not having the parts.

Leaf screwed with this post 03-20-2012 at 03:11 PM
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Old 03-11-2012, 09:06 PM   #22
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This project is on hiatus until Saturday the 17th (or maybe the 16th if I am lucky), as I have another work trip that will keep me gone all week. D:= I /could/ probably fit the bike and the hack into the company van, but I expect that the hotel management would frown upon me cutting, grinding, welding, and painting out in their parking lot in the evenings (assuming I could even get electricity out there). >_>

The 18" front rim for the tug is waiting for me to pick it up. Shipping on the intake boots was 6-8 days, so I expect that they won't ship until Monday and won't be here by the weekend, and I'll be working on refurbishing the hack instead. I am starting to worry that a Shinko 244 4.00-18 DS tire won't fit between the front forks, as that model of tire is very wide for their size, but I guess I won't know until I get some.

I'm stopping at New River Cycle Salvage on Tuesday during my trip, to look for useful bits. I'll be needing a brake pedal and cable for the sidecar in particular. I want to rig up separate pedals for the rear and hack, right next to each other, so that I can steer it offroad with the brakes like a tractor, or mash them both at once. Possibly with a flipper to lock them together for driving on the pavement. I also want to find some fork boots, and could use a new left-side airbox boot too. The one I've got is duct-taped, but that stuff doesn't hold up well in the wet.

It would be morally bankrupt of me to try to sell those awful aftermarket intake boots on ebay, so I guess I will just have to eat the cost.... Or maybe I can fabricate a plate to bolt down on top of them to make them seal properly, if gearhead doesn't really have the parts. I am slightly irked about it. I should have immediately returned them when I saw the poor manufacturing quality, but that was months ago....

Any advice or pictures from y'all who have mounted separate brake pedals?
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Old 03-12-2012, 11:54 PM   #23
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The 18" front rim arrived just in time for me to leave. :P So I haven't messed with it yet.

The UPS guy leaned it up against the garage door, and I ran up onto it while pulling out. -_-' But it seems fine other than a scratch from the concrete on the outside of the lip where it doesn't matter. It was well packed in many layers of cardboard.
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Old 03-13-2012, 11:06 AM   #24
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I'm no expert by any means but am a "budget driven" sidecar guy too.

Mufflers:
Keep your eyes peeled for some "garage sale" Harley sportster mufflers. The "Harley guys" always remove the nice little Harley mufflers and replace them with "Screem'in Beagle Kevorkian blah, blah, blah" mufflers. I found a nice pair for $20.00 .... I gave them to another inmate for a Honda 400 project. They bolt right on as the diameter was right. I see them all the time on Craigs list real cheap.

Sidecar:
$1000.00 isn't out of line ...in my opinion....

Frame tabs:
Be careful welding tabs to the frame. Welds flex and break, especially "farmer welds", like yours and mine..... "Clamping / bolting" is a safer option.

Steering stabilizing:
You'll likely want a hydraulic steering damper to eliminate steering wobble. VW cylinders are cheap and with a little creativity you can fab up some mounts.
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Old 03-13-2012, 05:56 PM   #25
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Thanks for the advice!

I stopped at the salvage place today. Picked up a used CM400T intake boot that is still pliable. It's a little bit hard, but far far better than others I've seen. There was only one, though. Hopefully I can get away with only replacing the worst one. >_>

Hopefully it's not too big. Even if it is 2mm too big (the CM had a 34mm carb instead of 32mm), I bet I can still get it to seal on the carb.

I'm going to try to figure out how to restore some pliability to the one ok-ish intake boot I already had. Maybe a heat gun, or a good long soak in wd-40 or old motor oil... Iunno... Any suggestions?

Also picked up a luggage rack from a Trail 90. I had a '68 Trail 90 as my first bike, and I have always missed that awesome luggage rack.... A little grinding, welding, and POR-15ing should have it hooked up to the Hawk quite nicely.

I was hoping to grab a brake pedal and some associated hardware for the hack brake, but the only one he had was crazy rusty. I guess I'll source that stuff off fleabay when the time comes.

Also was hoping to find a solo seat, but the only one I found (off a Magna, I think) was in really bad shape. I'll make my own seat, I guess, or just ride it without one until I run across something that'll work.

Thought about grabbing some fork boots, but they were all on bikes and I didn't feel like tearing down a frontend. >_> They're cheap on fleabay anyway.
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Old 03-13-2012, 09:50 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaf View Post
Thanks for the advice!

I stopped at the salvage place today. Picked up a used CM400T intake boot that is still pliable. It's a little bit hard, but far far better than others I've seen. There was only one, though. Hopefully I can get away with only replacing the worst one. >_>

Hopefully it's not too big. Even if it is 2mm too big (the CM had a 34mm carb instead of 32mm), I bet I can still get it to seal on the carb.

I'm going to try to figure out how to restore some pliability to the one ok-ish intake boot I already had. Maybe a heat gun, or a good long soak in wd-40 or old motor oil... Iunno... Any suggestions?

Also picked up a luggage rack from a Trail 90. I had a '68 Trail 90 as my first bike, and I have always missed that awesome luggage rack.... A little grinding, welding, and POR-15ing should have it hooked up to the Hawk quite nicely.

I was hoping to grab a brake pedal and some associated hardware for the hack brake, but the only one he had was crazy rusty. I guess I'll source that stuff off fleabay when the time comes.

Also was hoping to find a solo seat, but the only one I found (off a Magna, I think) was in really bad shape. I'll make my own seat, I guess, or just ride it without one until I run across something that'll work.

Thought about grabbing some fork boots, but they were all on bikes and I didn't feel like tearing down a frontend. >_> They're cheap on fleabay anyway.

Seems that all hack riders have different opinions on sidecar brakes...some love'em....some hate'em...some are indifferent. I have one for my old Jupiter hack but never got around to mounting it. I decided that my effort was better spent else where on the project and just never have got around to figuring out how to install it.
Mine has a cable actuated brake...some guys rig up a seperate pedal...some attach it to the bikes brake pedal. I've found that the brake really isn't necessary on my set up. I have dual front discs and rear drum. Maybe if I mounted it, I would like it.(?)
I've only ridden a couple other friends hacks over the years so my experience on different rigs / set-ups is minimal. But I've racked up at least 20,000 touring miles on my rig over the past 5 years....I know the tire supply guys love me.
I should have stock in MC tires as I've used up a load of them...
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Old 03-16-2012, 02:54 AM   #27
Leaf OP
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A pair of 40x2.4 o-rings for the old intake boots are on the way, along with a quart of wintergreen oil to soften the old boots.

If the wintergreen doesn't work, I'll make some metal plates the same shape as the flanges, with a hole for the boot to stick out of, to bolt down on top of the craptastic aftermarket boots to get them to seal up against the head. I'm pretty scared of those aftermarket boots, though. The "o-rings" on them are tiny thin things that appear to be glued on, and they have no metal in the flange, nor molded into the throat like the OEM ones. Ebay for the lose. I might add that I specifically asked the seller if the boots had metal flanges and throats like the OE ones, and he said they did. I should have opened them up and inspected them immediately upon receipt instead of letting them sit on the bench for 6 months. ;_;

Should have the bike home tomorrow evening (it's in the basement at work at the moment), which should speed things up on the tug front considerably. It was nice to have it in the heat over winter, but by the time work is over I am always anxious to get the heck out of there, and end up never working on it, which is why it's been in pieces for the past 6 months. :3

Hope to get around to stripping down the hack and refurbishing it a little this weekend. Will post some pictures of that... I can't decide if I want to paint the whole tub with bedliner, or just the inside... I do know that I eventually want to put a crash bar/bumper and maybe a skid plate under the tub, and maybe mount a tractor floodlight (if I can find one laying around that isn't too far gone). But for the moment I think I should probably just paint the frame, see about fixing the wiring, and maybe sew up the tear in the seat.

I don't mind some rust, but I don't want it to rust to pieces.

Not counting the cost of the wintergreen oil, 'cos I can keep it and use it to renew rubber parts on other old bikes.

40x2.4 o-rings (x2): $12.50
Good condition used CM400T intake boot + rusty Trail 90 luggage rack from the breaker: $25
18x2.15 comstar front rim from a CM400A on ebay (probably paid too much, but there's no 19" Shinko 244 wide enough to fit on the rim that's currently on it): $58.09.

Total spent on tug so far: $631.59
Total spent on hack so far: $1000

The goal has been to keep the tug under $700 (not counting consumables like chain, tires, filters, etc). I'm not sure if that will happen or not...
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Old 03-20-2012, 02:59 PM   #28
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Finally found time to haul the bike and the rest of the materials home. Still waiting on the o-rings and wintergreen oil (and a set of fork seals for my elderly 500). Forgot the camera at work, so no pictures yet....

In an interesting turn of events, I ran across a picture on a blog that looked exactly like this tug, right down to the scuffed paint on the tank and the interesting muffler welding. I messaged the guy (in Missouri, I think) that runs the blog, and we compared VINs. It seems that I have his old bike! Who'da thunk it.

The bike's name is Adama. I think he shall keep his moniker. It pleases me that the bike was loved well enough to be named, and that I am keeping it on the road and away from the breakers.

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Old 03-20-2012, 08:48 PM   #29
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Hey that (used to be) my bike!

It was a hoot to get the blog post from you asking if you now own my CB400T.

Here's the first post about Adama, which talks a little bit about why I bought him, and how he got his name:

http://journal.drfaulken.com/1980_honda_cb400t/

I'll be watching this thread, you've already taken the bike way farther than I was able to Good luck!!!!!
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Old 03-22-2012, 05:19 PM   #30
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Itty bitty bit of progress today....

Two whole parts painted!

Procedure:

1. Hit rust spots with WD-40.
2. Hit rust spots with wire brush.
3. Wipe down whole part with WD-40.
4. Clean part with degreaser.
5. Dry part.
6. Shoot part with $3 rattlecan primer.
7. Wait.
8. Shoot part with $3 rattlecan flat black enamel.

I'm having a devil of a time breaking the nuts loose on the curved piece, even after multiple soaks with PB Blaster. I'm going to take it down to the shop this weekend and see if an impact wrench will take them off.



Parts parts everywhere! I made the mistake of taking my extension cord to work. One of the bosses "appropriated" it without asking over Christmas for the holiday dreckerations, and I never saw it again. So I bought a better one with the company card and took it home. >_>





The frame was full of oil. Good idea, that. But it all poured out when I pulled the lower front mount off... Oops.

That mount was hard to get out of there. Much PB Blaster, rubber mallet, and prybar work.

That's the original 22 year old Slovenian tire, I think. I expect I'll need to replace it. <_<



Adama still sleeps, awaiting his intake boots. The airbox boots have some tears where they mount to the airbox, and they are misshapen. I can't decide if I want to try to patch them with rubber cement, or if I want to try to make my own airbox out of... something. One thing that I do know for sure is that I don't want to put pod filters on it. I guess the best thing to do is try to patch the OEM airbox boots... Maybe a short soak in the wintergreen oil will return them to the proper shape.







Bought a little under $50 of various paint and truck bedliner (for under the fenders and inside the tub), 50' #12 electrical wire, heat-shrink tubing, inline fuel filter. Splitting it evenly between the bike and hack, since I'll be splitting that stuff between both...

Total spent on tug so far: $656.59
Total spent on hack so far: $1025
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