ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > GSpot > Parallel Universe
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 10-07-2013, 10:04 AM   #361
JoelWisman OP
Beastly Adventurer
 
JoelWisman's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2009
Location: STL, MO, USA
Oddometer: 1,392
Shorai batteries held up like crap durring my tests. Sorry about your experience with them but at least durring testing and sales experience at the dealership I work for Antigravity held up perfectly so far.

As to how antigravity batteries fail if NOT heinously abbused. It is very gradual and totally linear. Properly designed, manufactured and cared for LiFePO4 batteries give the most warning of impending failure of any chemistry.

How many years? I can't answer that because it depends heavily on usage and care and also because the technology in this application hasn't been out for enough years for me to see one die of old age.

Good battery testers ($800 and up tool) used by techs that know the difference between an amp and an ohm (uncommon) can test any chemistry of battery and give plenty of warning.
__________________
Owned to date. Honda Aero 50, Honda Elite 80, Honda Elite 250x2, Suzuki Katana, Suzuki RF600, Yamaha YZF1000R, Kymco Xciting 500, Suzuki GS500, Suzuki Burgman 650, BMW F800GSx2, BMW S1000RR, Aprilia Scarabeo 200, Aprilia Caponord, Aprilia Sportcity 250
I love and miss you Jeneca and I'm sorry.
JoelWisman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2013, 04:48 PM   #362
JBruyet
Mountain chaser
 
JBruyet's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2008
Location: North Central Washington
Oddometer: 64
Thanks Joel, that was the answer I was hoping for. Had I not already gone out and purchased a lead acid Yuasa this post would have given me the confidence to purchase the Antigravity battery. The "impending failure" is important because I once had to push a previous bike a very long way.

Thanks again Joel. I may still get the Antigravity.

Joe B
JBruyet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2013, 11:54 PM   #363
thumpididump
MacGyver
 
thumpididump's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2009
Location: Germany
Oddometer: 2,530
I bought an Antigravity 8-cell for my WR250X and I was amazed at how it rolled that engine over faster than ever before. Ended up selling the bike shortly after, so I pulled the Antigravity and planned to use it in my next bike. However, my next bike turned out to be a KTM 990 -- significantly bigger power requirements than the 250.

I did use the Antigravity, however, to boost the big KTM after a loose neg (-) terminal left me stranded with a run down battery at the office. Went home to grab the Antigravity and some 10 gauge wire, went back and boosted the big V-twin like it was nothing. Considered installing it in the KTM but I am aware it's probably a little light for regular everyday use in such a big bike. I will eventually buy a bigger one though as the OEM KTM battery is getting old and should be replaced soon.
__________________
Keyboard Diarrhea
2014 KTM 690 Enduro R
Poor decisions always lead to great adventures.
thumpididump is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2013, 09:46 AM   #364
RexBuck
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: May 2010
Location: Interior BC, Canada
Oddometer: 1,004
I posted a query over here about some low voltage readings I recently observed and was going to have the stator checked out. A discussion with the service department led to a comment by the Writer that replacing lithium batteries had corrected similar problems as this.

My initial reaction was the guy was blowing smoke up my ass but then I started to wonder about this whole cold weather thing and lithium batteries. That lithium batteries seem to struggle until they get warm - a big discharge when starting may warm them up but nothing to warm them up when riding down the highway.

Is it possible that riding in cooler weather (ie: below 40 deg F) for extended periods (all day) could lead to lower voltage readings? Maybe I'm grasping here but I'm still trying to figure out why the service guy made the negative comment about lithiums.
__________________
www.rexbuck.com - RexBuck's Latin America
Information on travelling in Latin America.
Includes links to ride reports to Mexico and to South America
RexBuck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2013, 10:51 AM   #365
Indy Unlimited
Beastly Adventurer
 
Indy Unlimited's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2007
Location: Parker, CO
Oddometer: 1,279
All my Shorai batteries are dying after 3 years.
Just like clock work. amazing that they claim longer life the lead acid!
Using Antigravity and Yuasa YTZ series for replacement.
__________________
Current Stable:

2013 Ducati Hypermotard SP, 2011 Husaberg FE570S, 2011 BMW S1000RR, 2010 BMW F800GS
2007 Husqvarna TE610 , 2003 KTM 525 MXC

Indy Unlimited screwed with this post 12-16-2013 at 05:13 PM
Indy Unlimited is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2013, 12:05 PM   #366
RexBuck
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: May 2010
Location: Interior BC, Canada
Oddometer: 1,004
I have an AntiGravity 16 cell - about 18 mos old. When the temps are warm, bike shows full voltage (most of the time) . . . when colder, voltage drops - sometimes a lot.
__________________
www.rexbuck.com - RexBuck's Latin America
Information on travelling in Latin America.
Includes links to ride reports to Mexico and to South America
RexBuck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2013, 12:34 PM   #367
thumpididump
MacGyver
 
thumpididump's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2009
Location: Germany
Oddometer: 2,530
Define cold.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RexBuck View Post
I have an AntiGravity 16 cell - about 18 mos old. When the temps are warm, bike shows full voltage (most of the time) . . . when colder, voltage drops - sometimes a lot.
__________________
Keyboard Diarrhea
2014 KTM 690 Enduro R
Poor decisions always lead to great adventures.
thumpididump is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2013, 12:50 PM   #368
RexBuck
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: May 2010
Location: Interior BC, Canada
Oddometer: 1,004
Quote:
Originally Posted by thumpididump View Post
Define cold.
32 - 40 deg F
__________________
www.rexbuck.com - RexBuck's Latin America
Information on travelling in Latin America.
Includes links to ride reports to Mexico and to South America
RexBuck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2013, 01:49 PM   #369
thumpididump
MacGyver
 
thumpididump's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2009
Location: Germany
Oddometer: 2,530
OK, that's cold.


Quote:
Originally Posted by RexBuck View Post
32 - 40 deg F
__________________
Keyboard Diarrhea
2014 KTM 690 Enduro R
Poor decisions always lead to great adventures.
thumpididump is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2013, 09:49 PM   #370
_cy_
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Sep 2011
Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma
Oddometer: 5,797
Quote:
Originally Posted by RexBuck View Post
32 - 40 deg F
covering for Joel ... he's been really busy..

32f to 40f is not cold .. a 12v LiFePO4 battery properly sized for Adventure duties far from support will start your bike down to 20f or so.

EarthX ETX36 (14AH) and Shorai LFX36 (14AH) has successfully started test mule R80G/S down to 15f with no problems.

before parking bike for night .. measure voltage at battery... 13.3v (90%) is ideal LiFePO4 voltage. a larger AH LiFePO4 with plenty of reserves will still be able to start next cold morning. vs a quality 5AH LiFePO4 (Antigravity 8cell or EarthX ETX18) will start most bikes during warm weather but fall flat when temps drop.
_cy_ is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2013, 01:37 AM   #371
RexBuck
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: May 2010
Location: Interior BC, Canada
Oddometer: 1,004
Quote:
Originally Posted by _cy_ View Post
covering for Joel ... he's been really busy..

32f to 40f is not cold .. a 12v LiFePO4 battery properly sized for Adventure duties far from support will start your bike down to 20f or so.

EarthX ETX36 (14AH) and Shorai LFX36 (14AH) has successfully started test mule R80G/S down to 15f with no problems.

before parking bike for night .. measure voltage at battery... 13.3v (90%) is ideal LiFePO4 voltage. a larger AH LiFePO4 with plenty of reserves will still be able to start next cold morning. vs a quality 5AH LiFePO4 (Antigravity 8cell or EarthX ETX18) will start most bikes during warm weather but fall flat when temps drop.
Thanks CY
What I'm looking for here is: A) If the Service Writer is full of shit and; B) What is going to cause the low voltages during cold weather when the bike is running - especially the 12.25 - 12.85 volts (fluctuating because of heated gear) for 10 to 15 minutes periodically. Details here
__________________
www.rexbuck.com - RexBuck's Latin America
Information on travelling in Latin America.
Includes links to ride reports to Mexico and to South America
RexBuck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2013, 03:51 AM   #372
_cy_
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Sep 2011
Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma
Oddometer: 5,797
Quote:
Originally Posted by RexBuck View Post
I have an AntiGravity 16 cell - about 18 mos old. When the temps are warm, bike shows full voltage (most of the time) . . . when colder, voltage drops - sometimes a lot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RexBuck View Post
Thanks CY
What I'm looking for here is: A) If the Service Writer is full of shit and; B) What is going to cause the low voltages during cold weather when the bike is running - especially the 12.25 - 12.85 volts (fluctuating because of heated gear) for 10 to 15 minutes periodically. Details here
more info is needed to help.... what model/year is your motorcycle
16 cell Antigravity = 10AH actual capacity

need the voltage at idle and 3k rpm measured at battery with a known to be correct meter.
need resting voltage when bike is parked for night and next morning before starting bike
need total estimated wattage of all your heated gear/lights/etc.

fyi .. don't be so hard on the service rider. there's a ton of mis-information out there compounded by miss-leading pb/eq battery ratings, etc. it's gotten hard to tell who/what to believe..

fact is there are very_few techs out there that has deep battery knowledge, combined with deep motorcycle understanding like Joel Wiseman. fewer still are techs willing to help/share information.
_cy_ is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2013, 10:15 AM   #373
RexBuck
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: May 2010
Location: Interior BC, Canada
Oddometer: 1,004
Quote:
Originally Posted by _cy_ View Post
more info is needed to help.... what model/year is your motorcycle 2011 BMW 800GS
16 cell Antigravity = 10AH actual capacity That is the one Joel recommended

need the voltage at idle and 3k rpm measured at battery with a known to be correct meter. With nothing extra on and warmer weather: 14.25 or so at 4000 rpm & not much less v at 3000 rpm
need resting voltage when bike is parked for night and next morning before starting bike 13.6 - 13.7
need total estimated wattage of all your heated gear/lights/etc. heated jacket, spots, heated grips (hi beams off) = 140w

fyi .. don't be so hard on the service rider. there's a ton of mis-information out there compounded by miss-leading pb/eq battery ratings, etc. it's gotten hard to tell who/what to believe..

fact is there are very_few techs out there that has deep battery knowledge, combined with deep motorcycle understanding like Joel Wiseman. fewer still are techs willing to help/share information.
See above

I will test the stator voltage myself before taking the bike in and then have the dealer do their tests. I will ask them to give me the specific results of all the tests they run. If everything else is ok, they are going to have to have a concrete and plausible explanation to convince me to change out my existing battery.
__________________
www.rexbuck.com - RexBuck's Latin America
Information on travelling in Latin America.
Includes links to ride reports to Mexico and to South America
RexBuck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2013, 12:41 PM   #374
_cy_
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Sep 2011
Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma
Oddometer: 5,797
Quote:
Originally Posted by RexBuck View Post
See above

I will test the stator voltage myself before taking the bike in and then have the dealer do their tests. I will ask them to give me the specific results of all the tests they run. If everything else is ok, they are going to have to have a concrete and plausible explanation to convince me to change out my existing battery.
10 AH Antigravity is sized correctly for F8 .. provided your meter is correct. voltage output is within normal range. desired voltage at battery when putting away is 13.3v (90%) after voltage drop from 14.2v range. it's takes a several hour drive with voltage regulator putting out 14.6v to achieve 100% charge levels. typical voltage when putting bike up should be 13.3v range.

what's your voltage reading at idle?

remove your 10AH Antigravity from bike ... charge to 14.6v (100%) then allow to rest overnight. your resting voltage will tell state of charge.. expect 14.2v range resting for a fully charged 12v LiFePO4 without internal BMS. note at first current draw, voltage will drop to 13.3v range then stay almost flat until battery is depleted.

here's instructions on how to check your meter's calibration.

Checking DC Voltage Calibration for your Meter

here's how calibration is checked. first one must have a meter worth going to trouble of calibrating. sorry $10 meters don't make the bar.

first method is with a calibration standard which puts out user selected values. meter being tested should read same. since most folks don't have access to a calibration standard. go to second method.

reason I go to this much trouble is to insure any hard data posted by me are dead nuts reliable . that anyone can duplicate with lab grade instruments.

here Martel MC-1000 puts out 3.244v .. Fluke 189 reads 3.2439v


second way is to use a primary lithium cell like CR123 which puts out a stable voltage.. 3.22v with a new Fluke 87V which has recently calibrated by Fluke. go to any HVAC store and borrow their meter



compared to Fluke 789 which also puts out 3.22v .. so conclusion is Fluke 789 is within calibration for DC volts.

_cy_ screwed with this post 12-17-2013 at 12:49 PM
_cy_ is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2013, 02:36 PM   #375
RexBuck
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: May 2010
Location: Interior BC, Canada
Oddometer: 1,004
Quote:
Originally Posted by _cy_ View Post
10 AH Antigravity is sized correctly for F8 .. provided your meter is correct. voltage output is within normal range. desired voltage at battery when putting away is 13.3v (90%) after voltage drop from 14.2v range. it's takes a several hour drive with voltage regulator putting out 14.6v to achieve 100% charge levels. typical voltage when putting bike up should be 13.3v range.

what's your voltage reading at idle?

remove your 10AH Antigravity from bike ... charge to 14.6v (100%) then allow to rest overnight. your resting voltage will tell state of charge.. expect 14.2v range resting for a fully charged 12v LiFePO4 without internal BMS. note at first current draw, voltage will drop to 13.3v range then stay almost flat until battery is depleted.

here's instructions on how to check your meter's calibration.

Checking DC Voltage Calibration for your Meter

here's how calibration is checked. first one must have a meter worth going to trouble of calibrating. sorry $10 meters don't make the bar.

first method is with a calibration standard which puts out user selected values. meter being tested should read same. since most folks don't have access to a calibration standard. go to second method.

reason I go to this much trouble is to insure any hard data posted by me are dead nuts reliable . that anyone can duplicate with lab grade instruments.

here Martel MC-1000 puts out 3.244v .. Fluke 189 reads 3.2439v


second way is to use a primary lithium cell like CR123 which puts out a stable voltage.. 3.22v with a new Fluke 87V which has recently calibrated by Fluke. go to any HVAC store and borrow their meter



compared to Fluke 789 which also puts out 3.22v .. so conclusion is Fluke 789 is within calibration for DC volts.
I didn't write down the idle voltage. I seem to recall when everything is working well (ie: voltage @ 14.3 or so when @ 4000 rpm) then still well above 14 at idle.

My meter was calibrated with a Fluke - my meter was less than 1% lower than the Fluke

My only concerns with the battery were the comments by the service writer. For now I'm going with the premise that he doesn't know what he is talking about.

My main concerns are with the stator and whether it is starting to weaken. Can't figure out why my voltages periodically drop below the acceptable minimum threshold for 10 to 15 minutes and, why the voltage sat at 13.8 with nothing on for a couple of hours.
__________________
www.rexbuck.com - RexBuck's Latin America
Information on travelling in Latin America.
Includes links to ride reports to Mexico and to South America
RexBuck is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 08:21 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014