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Old 04-02-2013, 10:02 PM   #196
FJ_Kevin OP
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Location: Maryland ==> originally from Long Island
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1st Race Report

OK, I dont have too much time at the moment but perhaps I can start the report on my experience racing the big bad YZ465 Factory Replica that has been the subject of this thread .

Now keep in mind that this is my first motocross in 32 years. Yes, it is true, I am an old guy!

One thing for sure, the March 23rd event came up pretty fast here in Maryland (way too fast!). Especially as the weather has been cold and there have been few opportunities to get out on the bikes. In fact, the 1st time I started any of the bikes up this year was just 2-weeks prior to the event.

So I guess you could say I wasnt going into this so well prepared .

On the other hand, I did at least exercise fairly regularly, mostly by riding the indoor trainer. My wife is a serious cyclist and rides 5-6K a year. I have to do this so I can have even a glimmer of hope of riding with her in the spring.

She is on the left, I am on the right. Notice how her bike is placed ahead of my bike as this is the usual position on the road .




Since I am new to this vintage racing stuff I was not exactly sure which vintage racing events required a racing license. I decided I would join the AHRMA group this year as they seem to be the fairly active in my area (I have since learned of others).

On the application they ask for your top 3 picks for racing number. Figuring that all the double digit numbers would be taken already, I made my first choice 640, the same number as used in my very first race in 1976 and the one I received when they mailed me my license. Hows that for nostalgia?


Photos from 1976 with race number 640


And now a photo of the 490/465 bikes with new numbers in place. They do look the business don't you think?



Ah, but still more work to do. Once the numbers went on, more time doing final checks and adjustments.
Then the matter of pulling the gear together, assembling a toolbox, gathering spares, fresh gas and on and on.

With so much to do, I found myself working right up until about 10pm the night before the race, just like the old days .

To save time I thought it best to load up the bikes the night before.




While my intent was to race the yz465, you can see I took the IT490 also. This was so I could swap parts if anything failed on the 465 as many of the parts are interchangeable. This proved to be a good move .

By the time we got to the track the next morning there was only 15 minutes before end of sign up. There was a bit of a line but it moved fast. I am happy to say that the Budds staff was very friendly and helpful. And it looked to me that they kept the sign up open well past the official closing time and long enough to accomodate all comers.

The other racers were great too and were really helpful in showing me the ropes.

It seemed there were several possible classes that were open to me. Being away for so long, I thought signing up for just the 50+, intermediate, post vintage would be more than enough for 1st time out.

The post vintage class seems to include most MX bikes up until about 1984 and with no disc brakes. They ran all displacements together in my age category. So me and my 465 were lined up together with guys running 125's, 250's and a few other open class bikes. Good for me.


Since we got to Budds later than I had hoped, I found there was no time left after sign up for me to walk the track. This may have been a good thing as I was already a little worried after viewing some of the obstacles from the pit area.

Here again is that photo that I posted earlier.




The size of the hills and jumps (compared to the people) had me thinking about getting back in the truck and heading home!
My wife was concerned too but didnt say anything so as not to make me nervous... haha, too late!

I decided my plan would be to pick someone out to ride behind in the practice sessioin so I could pick up some lines and get a sense for how fast to approach some of the jumps. I have no trouble admitting I was a bit freaked out over these! So with plan in place, I went back to the truck to suit up. I then started the bike and rode down to await my groups practice session.

My wife snapped this picture of me with the replica OW 465 holding my replica Bell Moto Star (thinking what the hell am I doing?).




I am seriously hoping that somehow the use of my old race number will allow me to channel my inner 17 year old (like below).



Anyway, by this time in the morning the temperature was finally warming up and the 465 was running very well. I was hoping it would as the bike had felt a little lean earlier in the week when the temps were running in the low 30's. I hadn't had the time to fatten up the jetting so really took a chance on this point.

When I finally rolled onto the track I found the dirt to be moist and traction excellent, the 465 was snappy and really hooked up.

Unfortunately, I only got a few turns in before the rear wheel locked up. I skidded to a halt thinking my gearbox was seizing or something.

But no, my tire had gone flat and the sidewall had blown right off the rim. Not only that but the tube had wrapped itself around the wheel, the swing arm and the rear brake lever like a big rubber band. Now what???

Practice was only 20 minutes and I still had not seen the course yet. I knew the only option was to leave the 465 on the side of the track and go get the 490 off the back of the truck, quickly!

This all ate up time of course. In the end I got 3 laps in. Not enough to learn the track but enough to get me settled down and thinking I could get around without completely embarassing myself.







I have to say, these big bore Yamaha two strokes are such fantastic motors. That 490 just ripped up the hills and had great drive out of the corners.

On the other hand, the IT suspension, while cushy on the trails, was way too soft for an MX track. I found myself bottoming in several sections. In fact, the shock bumper was totally gone after the pracice session. I guess it needed to be replaced anyway.

And for some reason I found the track not as intimidating once on the bike. I was actually enjoying myself. I could even feel some of the old instincts already kicking in. That was neat!

But I still didnt know the track very well. Several of the jumps at Budds are blind and I wasn't always sure what was on the other side.

One thing I was sure of was that fitness would be a big problem. My arms pumped up quickly and I was left breathing fairly heavy after just those 3 laps.

More to come...
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My '81 YZ465 Factory Race Replica
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=772033

My Vintage Husqvarna/Motocross Restoration Extravaganza Thread
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=964670

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Old 04-03-2013, 03:23 PM   #197
D.T.
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Geez, blew out the rear tire already?? What psi did you have?

Thanks for sharing...
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Old 04-03-2013, 06:28 PM   #198
FJ_Kevin OP
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continuing from last nights post...

With the practice over I had some quick repairs to make. I rode the IT back to the truck and removed the rear wheel. I then carried it down to the track to swap it into the YZ.

However, when I removed the wheel from the YZ a brake shoe liner fell out. Somehow it had separated from the brake shoe!

Has anyone seen this before?



Ah well, replacing the wheel allowed me to roll the bike back to the truck but I would need to fix that brake shoe. I had fitted a YZ490 wheel to the 465 so knew the IT shoes would fit. So a quick switcharoo and I was back in business.



With all this going on I missed the riders meeting and all the instructions that go along with that. Thankfully another racer clued me in on the most important details and what moto number I would be going off in. Like I said, the folks I met this weekend were really terrific.

As the time for my moto approached, I told my wife I was going to take it easy and follow someone else around as I still didnt really know where I was going and I kind of wanted to make it home in one piece. She liked this idea.

I then rode down to the start area and selected what I thought would be a good position on the gate. My moto would be five laps, I knew I would have a tough time making that.

It's funny, while sitting at the gate I couldn't help thinking how it looked exactly like I remembered from so long ago. It is one of those jobbies that falls towards you. If you go too soon you risk pushing the gate back up. You get stuck while everyone leaves you behind. And while the gate falls together they are independent in the sense that the guy next to you can push his gate up while yours can still fall cleanly.

Although the gate was familiar, Budds uses a traffic signal light to inform riders when it is about to be "go" time. It goes red to yellow to green at which time the gate is supposed to drop in 2-3 seconds. In my day, someone (a girl if you were lucky ) held a 1 minute card which she turned sideways in the final 10 seconds or so before the gate fell.

Anyway, the light goes green, the gate drops and that 465 (with my fat as$$ on it) just rockets off the line and straight into the first turn... in first place!

I didnt see another wheel, a fender or anything. Just wide open track. I didnt know if the 1st turn was 90 degrees or 180 degrees (it was 180) but somehow I made it through.

At this point I decided I better keep gassin it so as not to get run over right away. Somehow in all this excitement my wife had enough composure to take this picture of me leading out of the first turn with some other old geezers snappin at my heels.



With 3 quarters of the 1st lap complete I finally remember my plan to follow someone so I could learn the track. So I look over my shoulder to let second place go by but second place was not there. Instead I saw gap!

I then decide I am just going to just go until some fast guy blows by me. But at the end of the 1st lap the lead is growing and at the end of the 2nd lap the lead is larger still. Finally I figure out whats going on here, haha, the other guys are all 50+ too .

It didnt matter though because by this point I am in trouble anyway. There are 3 laps to go and I am getting tired. It is remarkable how much energy it takes to ride a motocross bike around a track like Budds. The 8 motos that went before us really roughed things up for us oldtimers.

Of course you can guess what happens next. Yes, I fall down.

2.5 laps in and my front wheel rolls over a rutted down hill berm. My wheel washes out over the other side and I go down. And down kind of hard, like "uuhhuggg" hard! I definitely remember thinking how hard a hit it was.

On the bright side, I didn't feel any pops indicationg a break or dislocation and I was able to get myself up. I asked a nearby track worker for help in lifting the bike as it was dug into the hill a bit and I did not want to hurt my back lifting it on my own. It wasnt really damaged other that the front fender being curled under like a cheese doodle.

Trying to start it up wore me out even more. I did get it going but decided the best thing to do was to call it a day while I was still relatively OK.

So here are some take aways for me .

First, I was really pleased about how well the bikes performed. The YZ and IT Yamahas are terrific race bikes and both make excellent choices for vintage racing. It was very satisfying to have them go so well after all the effort to rebuild them.

After getting over my initial fears, I was really starting to warm up to the Budds Creek track. It wasnt as dangerous as it first appeared to me. It was a well run event with good facilities. They even have a sprinkler system to keep the dust down.

Although I cant say I put any really solid laps together, I was able to string together a few corners and sections that reminded me of what it was like to race in my youth. That felt wonderful!

I have also concluded that its real important that I not fall down too hard. This means I have to be in better shape, practice more and be satisfied riding at a comfortable pace without regard to placing .

The racers and oldtimers that participate in this are a real nice bunch. Hats off to them for getting out there on the track and for getting these old bikes into race condition

The next race is April 13 in WV at a track called Tomahawk. It is being put on by a group called ACR I think. I have never been there but I'm thinking about giving this one a try too.
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My '81 YZ465 Factory Race Replica
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=772033

My Vintage Husqvarna/Motocross Restoration Extravaganza Thread
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=964670
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Old 04-03-2013, 06:31 PM   #199
FJ_Kevin OP
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Originally Posted by D.T. View Post
Geez, blew out the rear tire already?? What psi did you have?

Thanks for sharing...
Yeah, I know. I was running about 15psi. I am pretty sure I had the rim locks tight but perhaps they were not tight enough. Maybe the wheel spun in the tire and ripped the valve stem? I'll take a good look at it over the weekend.
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My '81 YZ465 Factory Race Replica
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=772033

My Vintage Husqvarna/Motocross Restoration Extravaganza Thread
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=964670
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Old 04-03-2013, 07:10 PM   #200
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That's awesome Kevin! I love it. Too bad about the crash but at least you and the bike were okay.

As for the separated brake shoe--I have seen that a lot where the bike has not been used for long periods of time, usually years. But I haven't seen it happen to one being used regularly. It may have something to do with water intrusion and the aluminum part of the shoe oxidizing and loosing adherence to the lining over time.
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Old 04-04-2013, 03:28 PM   #201
D.T.
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I thought the sintered material was riveted onto the aluminium. Looks like it oxidized the aluminum.

Wow, you led the race! No other feeling like it.

I need to find a vintage race this summer.
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Old 04-04-2013, 06:15 PM   #202
FJ_Kevin OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brucifer View Post
That's awesome Kevin! I love it. Too bad about the crash but at least you and the bike were okay.

As for the separated brake shoe--I have seen that a lot where the bike has not been used for long periods of time, usually years. But I haven't seen it happen to one being used regularly. It may have something to do with water intrusion and the aluminum part of the shoe oxidizing and loosing adherence to the lining over time.
Thanks!

Haha, I'll try and finish the next one.

These shoes were old as I never replaced them. I will replace with new to be safe. I'm thinking now I should do the same on the old street bikes I ride.
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My '81 YZ465 Factory Race Replica
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=772033

My Vintage Husqvarna/Motocross Restoration Extravaganza Thread
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=964670
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Old 04-04-2013, 06:20 PM   #203
FJ_Kevin OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D.T. View Post
I thought the sintered material was riveted onto the aluminium. Looks like it oxidized the aluminum.

Wow, you led the race! No other feeling like it.

I need to find a vintage race this summer.

Yeah it was a lot of fun. Have you checked into the vintage scene in your area?

The vintage cross country races are good too. More relaxed and more riding time. We have one coming up towards end of April that I have my eye on.
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My '81 YZ465 Factory Race Replica
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=772033

My Vintage Husqvarna/Motocross Restoration Extravaganza Thread
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=964670
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Old 04-05-2013, 03:07 AM   #204
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Good Job Kevin! Be smooth with those big bores to help conserve energy. Trying to "Charge" with one of those YZs will drain you. Hope you can get a little ride time in before the next gate drops.

Did they have a second moto?

How did the jetting feel?
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Old 04-07-2013, 06:52 PM   #205
FJ_Kevin OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wfopete View Post
Good Job Kevin! Be smooth with those big bores to help conserve energy. Trying to "Charge" with one of those YZs will drain you. Hope you can get a little ride time in before the next gate drops.

Did they have a second moto?

How did the jetting feel?

Hi Pete,

Yeah it drained me alright. I will go for smoothness next time as you suggest and try to finish above all else.

BTW, seeing you out racing your bike provided me with some great motivation to do the same. I will be looking forward to getting updates as your season unfolds. And that Scottish fellow too. I am looking forward to hear about that Farleigh Castle event!

Anyway, they did have a second moto and r# of laps reduced from 5 to 4 for the vintage classes. Even so, I was too banged up to ride the 2nd one .

And I was too busy fixing my truck, doing my taxes etc etc to ride this weekend. I did change my brake shoes. Also changed the front fender as it was cracked at the mounting points (it was nearly new too, rats!). I may take an afternoon off this week to tune up the rider a little more.

Here is some other info you may be interested in.

A few weeks ago I was working on the 2nd yz465. When fitting the flywheel I rotated the motor in the reverse direction and it locked up on me. I found it was engaging the kick start gear. Investigation led to the tang on the spring that holds the kick gear (not the return spring). I think this may be one of the mechanisms that results in broken gears (or cases) when the engine kicks back when starting. I thought of you when I found this.

Replacing the bad spring with a spring with parallel tang solved the problem. It turns out the kick gear itself can have a lot of slop on the kick shaft spirals. All the ones I looked about the same clearance wise and I think this is why the spring tang is important in keeping the gear from rotating on the spriral and moving into the path of the kick idle gear.

Here are some photos that will show the problem area (I hope).

Of course I had my motor nearly assembled with the updated straight cut clutch basket. Fortunately, the kick shaft/gear assembly can be removed without taking the clutch back off.




Here I am comparing my newer style kick mechanism with the old. This is when I noticed the difference in the spring tang.



Here is a better view of what I think a good spring tang should look like.



Some more explaination for other 465/490 owners



Kick assembly back in the engine of YZ465 #2. Crank can now be turned backwards without engaging the kick gear.

Funny how there is always something new to learn on these bikes.




Does anybody know this rider?

Hint: If I am correct, I he is from Long Island, his brother's name is Bobby and his dad's name is Sal.

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My '81 YZ465 Factory Race Replica
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=772033

My Vintage Husqvarna/Motocross Restoration Extravaganza Thread
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=964670
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Old 04-09-2013, 04:25 AM   #206
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Loved your posts on your 465.
Found it extremely helpful in setting mine up
( still got a long way to go).
I read your post on jetting with great interest.
What jetting did you end up going with?
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Old 04-11-2013, 06:58 PM   #207
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Retro boy View Post
Loved your posts on your 465.
Found it extremely helpful in setting mine up
( still got a long way to go).
I read your post on jetting with great interest.
What jetting did you end up going with?

Retro: Thanks for the note and glad the posts are helpful to you on your own 465. Please feel free to share some pictures.

I am still running the following jetting

Pilot Jet= 50
Main Jet = 380
Slide = 3.5 (also a hand cut 3.0 slide)
Needle = 6DH3
Needle Jet = Q8, 247 series
Premix = 40:1

It seemed to run very well two weeks ago at Budds Creek in 45-50 weather, good throttle response and clean throught the rpm range. I thought it felt slightly lean when riding at 30F.

It has warmed up a lot in Maryland these last few days, closer to the temp when I was setting up the jetting initially. I plan to ride it a bit tomorrow so it will be interesting if it runs any differently.

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My '81 YZ465 Factory Race Replica
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=772033

My Vintage Husqvarna/Motocross Restoration Extravaganza Thread
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=964670
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Old 04-11-2013, 08:08 PM   #208
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I finally got to do some repairs on the 465 in preparation for the upcoming weekend.

Among the tasks,

- Fix the rear flat

- Install new rear brake shoes

- Install a new front fender.

- Replace the tank decals

I couldn't find any reason for my tire to flat so soon the last time out. I am pretty sure I had the rim locks good and tight but perhaps not tight enough considering the way the side wall came off the rim.

I did find one rim lock to have a slight imperfection on the rubber that covers the aluminum clamp that grips the tire. I replaced that one to be on the safe side. Also cleaned up the rim and ran a fresh course of duct tape as a rim strip.

When I fell off last time the fender (also new) cracked at the mount. It is not too bad so I am going to try and repair it later. In the mean time I mounted up another new fender that I was saving for project yz465 #3.

As for the tank decals, well the old (nearly new) ones started to fall off so I decided to put a new and better quality set on.

The last set didnt have any holes or slots cut in them to let the fuel vapors pass through. So eventually they just bubbled up and let go. In their favor was the fact that they were thin. This meant they were able to conform to the shape of the tank. They fit nice and flat when I first put them on, no lifting, no wrinkles. Too bad the fuel vapors pushed them off.

Here is a pic of the old ones ($20 on ebay). You can see the bubbles between the clear layer and the stripe layer.


This time I bought Wicked Tough decals at $45 (tank decals only).

These have the holes in them and seem to have decent adhesive. However, the decals are thick, too thick I think.

They fit fine where the tank is fairly flat but they do not conform well at all in other areas.

I used a heat gun to shape them during the initial installation. And I was able to get one to lie flat for awhile. But when I checked them this afternoon after work, they had both pulled up in several places. You can see the wrinkles in the photo.



I have to say I am a bit disappointed given the price paid for them.

The wicked tough decals are also on the IT490. I had them nice and flat initially. But there too they lifted in some spots as they tried to return to the shape they were when flat.

The problem is not quite as bad here as the decals are smaller and the IT tank is flatter in this area.






So if someone can recommend better tank decals (YZ465 specific) please let us all know. Or maybe there is a better way to mount the darn things that I am not aware of.

Anyway, tomorrow we clean the air filters, tighten all the doo dads and then its time to load up the truck again!





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My '81 YZ465 Factory Race Replica
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=772033

My Vintage Husqvarna/Motocross Restoration Extravaganza Thread
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=964670
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Old 04-12-2013, 09:31 AM   #209
D.T.
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Thanks! Great reading. Good luck this weekend!

Very interesting about the tank decals and fuel vapors. What type of plastic is the tank? HDPE?
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Originally posted by burgerking So?
Holland is about the most expensive country in Europe when it comes to bikes and fuel..Stop whining and go riding It's just money and you only live once...

D.T. screwed with this post 04-12-2013 at 09:39 AM
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Old 04-12-2013, 02:29 PM   #210
Scootern29
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Dontcha just love it when you pay good money for stickers and they barely last long enough to get a picture of the bike. I've been there my fren and it pissed me off big time. I don't even worry about the decals anymore.
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