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Old 01-02-2013, 08:50 PM   #946
jfotopo
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If someone else has already posted on these clips, my apologies. But for those who have not yet seen this year’s Dakar: Behind the Scenes in English on Eurosport, you can watch it at the link below if you scroll down to Top Stories:

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/motorsport/dakar/

You will see that there are three episodes and all of them worked for me here in the USA. They also have a clip entitled, “Rally Raid - Dakar 2013 course harder than ever” that also worked just fine. However, the video entitled “Rodrigues ‘must adapt to Honda’“ did not work for me, nor did the interview with Cyril Deprés which can be found under the videos link on that same site.

The Yahoo! Sport UK & Ireland/Eurosport.com website usually has good Dakar coverage every year. For those who are francophones, the French Eurosport website also has good coverage, but unfortunately the videos are geographically restricted. It can be found at:

http://www.eurosport.fr/rallye-raid/dakar/

I can’t wait for the race to begin!


Go Kurt! Go JC! Go Manuel! Go Lyndon! Go Kevin!

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Old 01-02-2013, 09:09 PM   #947
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G'day Too Old,

I think we wont see an assault on SS2. The guys who are fast have learnt that the rally is long and it simply doesnt make sense to push from day 1 (SS2). Very little to gain and very much to lose. There will be a few who make a natural progression forward because thier base speed is higher, Ben , Todd and Rod will move forward for sure, just dont think it will be at breakneck speeds.

The SS1 loop will shuffle the starting order into something decent. SS2 will even it out even more.
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Old 01-02-2013, 09:37 PM   #948
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Friends, a bunch of new photos are up on Simon Pavey's website of him and his team doing a final shakedown of their bikes today in Lima, Peru. It is located at:

http://www.simonpavey.com/galleries/1212-2/

By the way, what a great job Simon's son, Llewellyn, has done with the videos he created about their efforts to prepare for this year's Dakar entitled, "Making Dakar." It's a real shame that the ASO did not accept Llewellyn's application to race in the rally. Nevertheless, his film-making skills are truly top notch. Really excellent work!

Go Si!
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Old 01-02-2013, 10:26 PM   #949
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Originally Posted by Aussie66 View Post
G'day Too Old,

I think we wont see an assault on SS2. The guys who are fast have learnt that the rally is long and it simply doesnt make sense to push from day 1 (SS2). Very little to gain and very much to lose. There will be a few who make a natural progression forward because thier base speed is higher, Ben , Todd and Rod will move forward for sure, just dont think it will be at breakneck speeds.

The SS1 loop will shuffle the starting order into something decent. SS2 will even it out even more.
Yep G'day P - Whilst I still think they will segregate the top 50 for SS 1 results and SS2 start, I was more referring to the natural speed your 3 main guys have

By default and even considering the marathon aspect (although I understand at at elite level it is as flat out as the conditions allow) they should be running SS2 times up with those in the top 20, so given that overtaking isn't an issue they should be in the frame pretty quickly if they are not there just for the experience!?
Or are you just hedging your bet's also and staying quietly expectant/confident

P.S. musn't forget Fishy at # 39
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Old 01-02-2013, 11:24 PM   #950
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I asked about Ben Grabham's chances in the Dakar a year or so ago. Here is what the recently annointed mod had had to say about the proposition then :-

"The latest crop of top Aussie rallye pilots, ride the Safari with a level of "attack" that is rarely sustainable for an entire event... especially not at DAKAR.

Garry is correct when he points out the effort of Andy Haydon @ DAKAR in ´98; Andy is the only rider to podium as a rookie* at DAKAR (*at least in the modern era - post 1990 - there may have been one or two in the early years 1979 - '89). But it is also fair to say that there were some unigue circumstances that allowed him to do so:

Andy was on the best team that year; KTM had a group (five or six) riders capable of the podium, and given that on the ´98 DAKAR, probably about 70% of the selectives that year were of the open piste dune navigation variety. This allowed Andy to "shadow" his more experienced collegues - like Meoni, Roma and Cox, on the dune navigation stages (a technique/terrain that he had never experienced before on the Safari) and in doing so make a very tactical (and unexpected) 3rd place on debut.

I don't think that the DAKAR in South America would afford a rookie competitor (regardless of how talented they are) the opportunity to "shadow" in this manner. Although there are some "open piste" navigation stages in the Atacama region (similar to those of the African DAKAR stages in the western Sahara) for three or four days; a greater percentage of the course in Argentina and Peru is on formed tracks or offroad trails... similar to that which the Safari has.

Because of the fesh fesh (dust) and nature of the terrain, the ability to ride "shadow - in a lead group - as we sometimes see on the open piste stages, is minimized. So any rider going to DAKAR in South America first time up is going to have to learn the ropes, figure out the navigation and tactics for themselves... perhaps moreso even than on the African editions.

The top Aussies read a roadbook at speed as well as anyone... but that is in Australia. In Dakar there are different terminologies, different way of interpreting the terrain, AND - not the least - the GPS/waypoint navigation.

You hear in SafariBergs RallyRADIO interview, when he referred to Ze Helio's comments about the navigation of Coma, Despres in the dunes. These guys have a "sixth sense" in those places... Peterhansel had it before them... It takes a number of years to acquire this; combine this with their unbelievable riding skills and experience in Rally Raids; where they've learned to temper the pace in order to finish at the front... THEN you have what is needed to win."

Guess we'll find out soon enough huh Troy....


Just sayin'
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Old 01-02-2013, 11:53 PM   #951
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Laugh 205'd bigtime...! And not even to the start podium!

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Am I the only one to see that Kurt Caselli is racing Dakar this year? Go kid go!
Ummmm... nope!

http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=850623

There's a WHOLE danged thread devoted to the subject!
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Old 01-03-2013, 12:08 AM   #952
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Originally Posted by troy safari carpente View Post
Ummmm... nope!

http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=850623

There's a WHOLE danged thread devoted to the subject!
It's slipped to page 2 already - I hope his effort lasts longer not that with my jockey I have much room to talk - for now that is
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Old 01-03-2013, 12:08 AM   #953
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SS2... we're not there yet...?

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Originally Posted by too old View Post
Ha ha, things are warming up - 6 hours kip and 3 pages on and this is only pre-event, 3 pages on HRC also

So do they segregate the elite 50 on SS1, I recall they do? - even so it will be interesting to see the tactics, if SS2 is considered easy for overtaking then the quick guys won't be too fussed on the prolouge and for the few seconds (half a minute or so) they can chase on SS2 and run up quick times - although there will be plently of them so it will be still very interesting to see what transpires

Troy - you have been very quiet about your Ozzie mates - is this on purpose?

Still to be confirmed if they are fighting for places 51 and above for SS2 - you have Simon staring #51, don't know anything about your namesake at #75 (Troy O'Connor) or Warren Strange at #131, but at #'s 57, 123 and 156 (Ben, Rod and Todd) you have 3 riders who should be in the top 20 at least - com'on - give an opinion on SS2 and what's going to happen with the Ozzie assault
Here's the "Cliff note" version

SS1: the bikes start in reverse order after they make their way out from the ceremonial start in LIMA to the 13 km SS1.

They all run through that stage (essentially a prologue) and go like stink to get as good a time as possible. I don't know what you mean by "seggregate" the priority riders - that's not a term I have ever heard in terms of rally for 20 years... They will run in reverse number start order... so the top 50 (priority) riders iw ould think, in that sence will be the last to run the SS1.

After SS1 the continue the 250 km liason to Pisco bivouac, where they rest and prepare for day two...

They will start SS2 (day two) in the order as per the results from SS1 the day prior (first ten motos at two minute intervals).

From Day three onwards the start order is determined from the previous days special stage results (first 10 motos two minute intervals), unless you are a "priority rider" - I believe you can attain this status under the course of the event (if for example you are an alien Aussie or similar) - where you can be "re-seeded" (in the name of safety ) back up at the pointy end with the quick guys, if you have had a problem the previous day, but will start the subsequent leg in any case.

Clear enough?

As far as my aussie mates/friends and darkhorses go...?

The sage advice (and i've talked to the majority of them) is; walk softly, and carry a big stick for the first 7 days... then belt them over the heads with it on the run to Santiago!
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Old 01-03-2013, 12:17 AM   #954
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Quote:
Originally Posted by troy safari carpente View Post
Here's the "Cliff note" version



As far as my aussie mates/friends and darkhorses go...?

The sage advice (and i've talked to the majority of them) is; walk softly, and carry a big stick for the first 7 days... then belt them over the heads with it on the run to Santiago!
Clear enough?


Fuly up on that, I just couldn't recall if after SS1 # 51 and up could encroach on #50 and below - from what you say they can, perhaps just my sense of far play for the elite alone - So back to my first comment a day or so ago -with only a 13 km prologue and 190 + riders the field could be all over the place for the SS2 start - but should come back in line after a few glory positions for SS2?

Ozzies/Subtle - now there's an oxymoron if I ever heard one the beating over the head with a big stick thing I can understand though
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Old 01-03-2013, 12:28 AM   #955
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smacka View Post
I asked about Ben Grabham's chances in the Dakar a year or so ago. Here is what the recently annointed mod had had to say about the proposition then :-

"The latest crop of top Aussie rallye pilots, ride the Safari with a level of "attack" that is rarely sustainable for an entire event... especially not at DAKAR.

(yaddayaddayaddayaddayaddayadda... )

You hear in SafariBergs RallyRADIO interview, when he referred to Ze Helio's comments about the navigation of Coma, Despres in the dunes. These guys have a "sixth sense" in those places... Peterhansel had it before them... It takes a number of years to acquire this; combine this with their unbelievable riding skills and experience in Rally Raids; where they've learned to temper the pace in order to finish at the front... THEN you have what is needed to win."

Guess we'll find out soon enough huh Troy....


Just sayin'
Smacka
Just sayin';

If Ben, Todd or Matt can get on the podium in their debut at DAKAR (like Andy Haydon did in 1998), it will be nothing short of miraculous.

Now I am not saying that any of these three riders don not have the skill to stand on a DAKAR podium (along with both Jake and Rod - both who have ridden Dakar once prior), all five of these guys can ride and navigate well enought to be top level Dakar riders, with time experience... and I have said exactly that over the last three to four years repeatedly... BUT no one is going to do it first time out no matter how talented you are in todays field. (depth of talent and competitive machinery is better than EVER today). But with two/three evnts under the belt, then it IS possible... all these guys have alien speed... just not the experience... and the one who has invested the most time (to date) on acquiring this international experience is Fishy... so with the husky Speedbrain effort behind him, I think it is Matty's time to shine.

That is not to say that Grabbo (KTM Australia) or SmthyT (GHR HONDA) don't have good bikes, great team behind them and talent... but they are still on the learning curve. I expect that Rod F will acquit himself well on the Yamaha Europe bike if the machine (and old injuries) are problem free... and the Aussie mates of warren Strange (GHR) and Troy O'Connor should do just fine if the take their smaller stick, walk briskly and get through week one in good shape... both are top 50 caliber or better riders.

just sayin'

Troy
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Old 01-03-2013, 12:32 AM   #956
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Ozzies/Subtle - now there's an oxymoron if I ever heard one the beating over the head with a big stick thing I can understand though
In Australia an "oxymoron" is someone decreed to be a waste of good oxygen (if they are breathing)...

"Big sticks" are often an effective way of dispatching them... but you have to walk softly an approach them from behind if best results are to be achieved.
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Old 01-03-2013, 12:38 AM   #957
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Quote:
Originally Posted by troy safari carpente View Post
In Australia an "oxymoron" is someone decreed to be a waste of good oxygen (if they are breathing)...

"Big sticks" are often an effective way of dispatching them... but you have to walk softly an approach them from behind if best results are to be achieved.

As they say, "seperated by a common language" - in British English it's two words that don't belong together in the same sentence - such as Despres & HCR, or KTM & Quit Dakar - or do they

Yes - you guys certainly have the darker horses of this years event
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Old 01-03-2013, 12:49 AM   #958
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Let me throw in my 2 cents...

I think that everyone after Despres believes that this year is their year and will attack accordingly. Rally Maroc had all the players full gas from Day 1 - something not seen before - and I reckon we will also see that in this Dakar. The regular players will be matched up with a group of Dakar rookies that don't believe the hype and with the introduction of new teams with good resources will mean that everyone will be going hard and we will see a pace not unlike Safari - at least for the first week !!! which will shake out and down the field those normally floating around the top 7-15,

Then all will regroup and keep attacking in the second week. Those with the best resources - parts and people - will then contest for the Podium. I will go out on a limb and say that the final three will be determined by the rest day !!

Just saying.....
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Old 01-03-2013, 12:57 AM   #959
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CPWSAFARI View Post
Let me throw in my 2 cents...

I think that everyone after Despres believes that this year is their year and will attack accordingly. Rally Maroc had all the players full gas from Day 1 - something not seen before - and I reckon we will also see that in this Dakar. The regular players will be matched up with a group of Dakar rookies that don't believe the hype and with the introduction of new teams with good resources will mean that everyone will be going hard and we will see a pace not unlike Safari - at least for the first week !!! which will shake out and down the field those normally floating around the top 7-15,

Then all will regroup and keep attacking in the second week. Those with the best resources - parts and people - will then contest for the Podium. I will go out on a limb and say that the final three will be determined by the rest day !!

Just saying.....
I certainly believe you are right on this year - snooze and you lose, push it and f**k it - the choice is yours

Of course there are the many who are in it to finish it also
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Old 01-03-2013, 01:00 AM   #960
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CPWSAFARI View Post
Let me throw in my 2 cents...

I think that everyone after Despres believes that this year is their year and will attack accordingly. Rally Maroc had all the players full gas from Day 1 - something not seen before - and I reckon we will also see that in this Dakar. The regular players will be matched up with a group of Dakar rookies that don't believe the hype and with the introduction of new teams with good resources will mean that everyone will be going hard and we will see a pace not unlike Safari - at least for the first week !!! which will shake out and down the field those normally floating around the top 7-15,

Then all will regroup and keep attacking in the second week. Those with the best resources - parts and people - will then contest for the Podium. I will go out on a limb and say that the final three will be determined by the rest day !!

Just saying.....
A sound tactical analysis (from the perspective of the collective - down under - non-hype believing Dakar rookies corners)

The influx of new talent, the increased impetus from new teams like Speedbrain, HRC and Yamaha putting pressure on the KTM stranglehold... with despres as the sole alien defending the title, and the number of "new kids on the block"... could WELL see the pace at the front reach maroco/safari like levels of frantic activity.

This could well be like back to the days of "Peterhansel"... when the tactic of; "break them (with sheer pace) in week one, then (mentally) make a push for the podium in week two..." could be the hot ticket.
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