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Old 03-26-2012, 07:26 PM   #1
brittrunyon OP
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Side Case Frame Repair ?

Would the best repair for this break be simply a "good" weld? The factory welds are perfect. I'm of course looking for someone who can do the best job possible, but just who would that be?

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Old 03-26-2012, 08:26 PM   #2
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I'd stick a well fitted plug/sleeve into that to join the two pieces and then just weld (TIG because I have it) it up. Anyone with a TIG or MIG should be able to do that nicely (a stick welder would do it, but might get a bit messy on your chrome). Done like that I'd suspect it would break somewhere else next time.
Problem is it is chrome and the weld is going to rust. You could paint just the bit that is welded I suppose.
You could also probably weld it with stainless filler too, but I'm sure you'd get a bit of rust on the edges of the weld regardless.

What about plugging/sleeving it, then brazing it (sterling silver 'solder' might be the most 'invisible')?
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Old 03-26-2012, 08:52 PM   #3
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A "well fitted plug" is a great suggestion, thanks.
Plugging it, then brazing with "sterling silver solder" would be less visible, but not as strong.
Hmm?
Strength or Beauty?
Thanks for the suggestions....................
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Old 03-26-2012, 09:23 PM   #4
robtg
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Looks like a broken lawn chair next to a motorcycle tire. Back up the camera a bit so we can see the whole picture.
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Old 03-26-2012, 09:47 PM   #5
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what he said^^
It is a little hard to tell, but what part of the frame is this?

I am no metalurgist, but from what I have absorbed from friends who do metalwork for a living, a well fitted plug with regular braze or silver 'solder' (my friend calls that brazing as well) here would be pretty bloody strong. Because it is a lower temperature process than welding, you shouldn't get any heat related problems/complications, and really, with a well fitted plug and a nicely brazed join, I wouldn't be surprised if you actually increased the strength of that section (especially considering the potmetal these luggage frames seem to be made of).
Shear strength would certainly increase- if you were worried about it pulling apart vertically you could drill a couple of holes above and below the join, that would go into the plug as well, and then fill these with braze/solder as 'anchors'.
Regular bronze braze would polish up gold and I think is stronger, and silver solder would polish up silver.
Like I said, with a half decent job, I reckon the next failure would be somewhere else
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Old 03-26-2012, 11:07 PM   #6
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I had that exact same crack on the luggage hoops on my GS. I believe that 7/16" rod fits the i.d. perfectly. I held that in place with a pin, ground a groove at the crack and had a friend weld it up. So far so good.
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Old 03-26-2012, 11:20 PM   #7
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Silver soldering is very different than brazing it. That isn't two different words for the same thing. Welding it? The problem with that in my experience is that it won't weld for crap because the weld right next to the break is brazed and in all my experience once something has been brazed it won't weld for crap anywhere even close to the braze. I would most definitely butt braze the break and then braze a gusset on the joint like they should have been done as delivered. Gussets brazed on there and then a cross brace behind the fender is a must if you don't want that style bag mount breaking again in the future. Next time braze on the gusset BEFORE it breaks!
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Old 03-27-2012, 06:27 AM   #8
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Pop was a blacksmith/ welder/ engineer and he would have done the same as Supershaft.

The frames on my G/S have broke there to. Among other places

Probably when the PO had it fully laden on one of his RTW trips or whatever.

From the quality of the repair work it looks like the were brazed / repaired out on the road, still on the bike.

The repairer has brazed what looks like a bit of 1/4 rod hammered out flattish to the inside if the frame, round the corner and well up past the break.

Seems to have worked OK for the next 100,000km, but there is, err, plenty of braze around the place and it looks horrible

Just scored a nice set of Wudo G/S frames on Ebay for $60- . Look much more robust than the originals.

I was going to have the repairs sleeved and tidied up and the frames powdercoated , but finding someone who is still brazing things is getting hard around here, and finding a decent , cheap, powdercoater is even harder, so when the Wudos came up I grabbed them.
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Old 03-27-2012, 08:52 AM   #9
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WOW.............thanks for all the input. I'm searching for the right sized rod to use as a plug. Then attempt the silver solder method to seal the break. I'm now searching for silver solder and "how to" info.

Here's the requested photo, a little further away from the bike.
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Old 03-27-2012, 12:39 PM   #10
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I know better to argue terminology with SS about brazing (see link for 'silver brazing') and I also know better to argue with my friend who calls silver soldering brazing- he works with metal everyday, wether it be as a jeweler or as a metal fabricator and welder. He lives metal. He brazes things for me, with silver solder (which last time he did it he also called 'sterling silver' when I asked more specifically about it compared to bronze braze, and that confuses my statement even further).
Bronze braze might be better (stronger) if you can deal with the gold colour.
I also agree about the weld being difficult there if that join next to it is brazed. It is quite interesting trying to weld over the remains of braze
I also wish I started with some Wüdo pannier frames
good luck,
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Old 03-27-2012, 01:36 PM   #11
supershaft
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I liked that picture of your GS ontic. It looks all business to me.

I am fine with brazing silver solder as long as you know it isn't the same as brazing bronze.

All the older style BMW bag mounts are bronze brazed. Sorry but once something has been brazed it shouldn't be welded. The bead ends up looking and working like slag. The older bag mounts work perfect IF they are gusseted and braced around the back fender.

Yet another reason why I like Mono's. You can run K bike bags! Huge improvement!

I have never looked into the advantages/disadvantages of silver soldering something like those bag mounts since I have never had an issue with bronze brazing. Can you silver solder right next to a bronze braze?

supershaft screwed with this post 03-27-2012 at 01:42 PM
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Old 03-27-2012, 06:58 PM   #12
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Is the Silver Solder the type you can buy at hardware stores? If I don't like the repair or I botch it, where might I purchase case frames other than BMW?
Silver Solder at Lowes, is it the right stuff?
http://www.lowes.com/pd_23517-138-50...ductId=3136485
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Old 03-27-2012, 07:33 PM   #13
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True Silver solder can be a pain in the ass to use with any success. If you are at all practiced with brazing, then there is no reason not to insert as long as possible internal plug, then braze it up, and paint it. Bicycle frames are brazed, and plenty strong.
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Old 03-28-2012, 03:37 AM   #14
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Thanks for the compliment supershaft, my G/S is getting there (not quite 'the business' yet compared to that lovely blue G/S I posted in the airhead picture thread which is not my bike!)

Jorunny, yeah maybe, forget my mention of silver solder as it is just confusing the issue- just use bronze brazing.
I get it done for me by my jeweler/welder mate and don't know enough about it to recommend what is the right solder or not- the stuff he uses for 'silver brazing' is the stuff he uses for making sterling silver jewelery. It is done with proper gas torches and at pretty high temps. Clean metal, flux and lots of heat... apply silver wire. I just tried to google it and I think what I am talking about might be called 'hard soldering' (as compared to 'soft soldering') using pretty much pure silver with a touch of zinc to lower the melting point a touch.

I'm happy with it for what I've had done but only had that done because he prefers it to bronze braze and he has it on hand (he's building a bicycle frame currently with it).

Anyway, bronze looks good too. Polished up and gold is at least better than welded and messy and rusty.
Good luck,
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Old 03-28-2012, 11:24 AM   #15
supershaft
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I have silver soldered electric motor winding leads after you lay in new winding. Silver soldering and bronze soldering takes an acetylene/oxygen torch. You need to get the metal to a dull red. The chrome is going to have to come off. I would sand blast it off and pant them black. Chrome contaminates welding and brazing. Painted they are easier to repair and they look better IMO. Chrome is for cruisers!
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