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Old 04-29-2012, 12:48 PM   #91
mrphotoman
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I have been using car tires for years and years, they seem to work great. I got around 35,000 miles out of the last brand I used. My car seems to go through the rear ones faster than the front ones for some reason though.
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Old 04-29-2012, 04:23 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by ErikDK View Post
I bet you'd get a pretty good discount at a mind reader..
Hmmmm... there may be truth in what you say.No one ever accused me of being the brightest kid in the class. But I'll tell ya' what, since this site is predicated upon a collegial sharing of ideas and experiences, how about telling us a bit about yourself. You appear to be a man of strongly held convictions and opinions, obviously based upon significant real world experience, yet your profile is pretty spare and your post count is only 4.

I'm thinkin' that there's more to you than that, so open up a little... like, what do you ride and do you have any pictures? Have you done any modifications or is your bike bone stock? Which other bikes do you own or have you owned? What kind of riding do you like to do? Where do you ride and where's your favorite riding area? Inquiring minds want to know.

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Old 05-01-2012, 08:31 AM   #93
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I'm just sick of narrow minded people who feel they must comment reports from people who have actually tried out a car tire on the rear of a motorcycle for many thousand miles with nonsense like. "Why not a car tire in front?" "I think I will try a motorcycle tire on my truck" "I think I will try a tractor tire on my bike"

What I ride, what I've ridden, for how many years and how many miles, roads and at which speeds is unimportant.

I'm not a darksider yet, and I'm not commenting on posts from people who have tried and disliked car tires on bikes, only on blunt stupidity posts from naysayers trying to ridicule the concept of car tires for long-distance-riding..

The naysayers will ridicule any evidence presented by the darksiders, be it videos or riding reports. If they can scrape hard parts, it's just because they lean to much for the curve, and any speed in a given turn shown in a video is rejected as slow.
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Old 05-01-2012, 06:34 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by ErikDK View Post
I'm just sick of narrow minded people who feel they must comment reports from people who have actually tried out a car tire on the rear of a motorcycle for many thousand miles with nonsense like. "Why not a car tire in front?" "I think I will try a motorcycle tire on my truck" "I think I will try a tractor tire on my bike"

What I ride, what I've ridden, for how many years and how many miles, roads and at which speeds is unimportant.

I'm not a darksider yet, and I'm not commenting on posts from people who have tried and disliked car tires on bikes, only on blunt stupidity posts from naysayers trying to ridicule the concept of car tires for long-distance-riding..

The naysayers will ridicule any evidence presented by the darksiders, be it videos or riding reports. If they can scrape hard parts, it's just because they lean to much for the curve, and any speed in a given turn shown in a video is rejected as slow.
Uh... I'm actually considering it, so you might want to get your fur back down for a minute bubba while I explain. I'm currently happy with the Battle Wings on my DL1000, and when I can go out with guys with similar bikes down here in Kentucky I get a chance to use almost the whole tire, not just the part down the middle like when I lived in northern Indiana. The tires work perfectly with the bike, and the bike seems like it was designed for Kentucky's paved back roads.

Not all of my riding, unfortunately, is with my two Triumph-owning neighbors. Some of my other riding buddies ride metric cruisers. They don't like twisties and lumpy back roads, but they do ride serious distances on level blacktop where the KY Dept of Transportation has made the roads hugely boring but a whole lot safer. That kind of riding isn't interesting to me but I haven't been successful in enlightening my pals, even though one of them used to own a Ducati Monster that he drove like the proverbial violated primate. Maybe if I can't lick 'em I should join 'em - sorta.

I'm not up for owning a cruiser 'cause they just don't fit - I can't tolerate the seating position. An alternative that I've considered, however, is a spare set of wheels set up as "double darkside." Yup, a car tire in the back and a motorcycle rear tire in the front. Lots of folks have had good success with the General Altimax tires, so why re-invent that particular wheel. Darkside on the front, however, appears to be pretty virgin territory. The reason that I'm thinking about the Avon Safety Mileage in either 3.50 or 4.00 is because I had excellent results with it in the 70's with my Nortons & Triumphs and in the 80's & 90's with my BMW sidecar outfits. It seems to be rounded enough for a front tire if the bike is ridden like a cruiser, plus the wide contact patch ought to work pretty well for braking - maybe even better than a Battle Wing under hard braking since I've gone to GSXR 750 calipers on my front brakes and the bike actually stops when I want it to rather than when it decides on its own.

I'm planning on a trip out west later in the summer so I'll probably try it out then. Since I've got a lot of stops to make along the way I'll need to stay on the faster highways where I probably won't have much opportunity to toss the bike around. It seems like a natural to me, and who the hell cares? It's my ass if there's a problem, right? Plus I never was any good at coloring inside the lines....

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Old 05-01-2012, 10:41 PM   #95
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The naysayers will ridicule any evidence presented by the darksiders, be it videos or riding reports. If they can scrape hard parts, it's just because they lean to much for the curve, and any speed in a given turn shown in a video is rejected as slow.
I'll accept that some may run the car tires for $ reasons, and that it can be done without crashing, but to infer that a car tire can be used on a 2 wheeled motorcycle WITHOUT performance issues is irresponsible. THAT'S what folks get riled up about. Tire choice on bikes is all about compromise. My son wants the highest grip performing tires on his CBR1000RR, I'll run sport touring tires on my K1200RS, and although I'd like to run Conti TKC's on my GSA all the time for good road performance and pretty good off-road action, I choose Shinko 705's for reasonable performance on both and COST. On my XChallenge I run the TKC's, because DOT dirt tires get eaten up on the asphalt on the way to dirt rides.

Running a car tire on a bike is all about $ and to claim anything but reduced M/C performance (except STRICTLY in a straight line, like drag racing) for the sake of ecomical reasons is bullshit.

So bring on the videos and reports, but don't expect anyone who's not too fucking stupid or ignorant to know better or understand to believe anything other than it's done to save money at the expense of performance.
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Old 05-02-2012, 12:52 AM   #96
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I'll accept that some may run the car tires for $ reasons, and that it can be done without crashing, but to infer that a car tire can be used on a 2 wheeled motorcycle WITHOUT performance issues is irresponsible. THAT'S what folks get riled up about. Tire choice on bikes is all about compromise. My son wants the highest grip performing tires on his CBR1000RR, I'll run sport touring tires on my K1200RS, and although I'd like to run Conti TKC's on my GSA all the time for good road performance and pretty good off-road action, I choose Shinko 705's for reasonable performance on both and COST. On my XChallenge I run the TKC's, because DOT dirt tires get eaten up on the asphalt on the way to dirt rides.

Running a car tire on a bike is all about $ and to claim anything but reduced M/C performance (except STRICTLY in a straight line, like drag racing) for the sake of ecomical reasons is bullshit.

So bring on the videos and reports, but don't expect anyone who's not too fucking stupid or ignorant to know better or understand to believe anything other than it's done to save money at the expense of performance.


Gooly geeze Wally, sorta hard on a fella ain't cha?

If you look at my posts and most of the posts of many others in this thread that have actually run car tires on the rear, you will find that we have already talked in terms of compromise. I and others have already stated that any tire choice is a compromise be it a DOT race tire, a sport tire, a sport touring tire, a touring tire, a 70/30 dual sport tire, or a DOT knobby,,,,,,,,,,, or even a damned car tire. What compromies you choose to accept are based on your riding style, your bike and your wants and needs.

You choose to run 705s even though they don't give the on road traction of a Pilot Power. They don't give the off road traction of a DOT knobby like a TKC either. They don't even give the wear of a touring tire like a ME880. So why run em especially when many on here and elsewhere swear that even contemplating running them on your bike will result in certain catastrophic failure that will wad your bike, skin your ass and maim innocents?????

You state cost reasons as to why you them them but in case you haven't noticed,,,,, the 705s are actually a pretty derned good compromise tire when you factor in all the aspects {on-road and off road grip along with wear} and as a matter of fact, I prefer them over Tourances much to the chagrin of many a Chicken Little on here that would say there is no way a Shitko could hold a candle to a name brand tire. So, there are reasons to run a Shitko over another tire other than pure cost reasons.

And bingo,,,,, exactly the same with running the car tire on the back. And much to your own disbelief, there are performance benefits to running a car tire on the back of a bike depending on what performance characteristics a certain rider chooses over other. No,,,, a car tire on the back of a Gixxer 600 isn't gonna be the quickest way around a track as compared to a Pilot Race or like tire. But I bet dollars to donuts a car tire on the back of a DL650 will give pretty much the same lap times as a TKC or for that matter, a ME880 or for that matter,,,,,,,,,,,, your Shitko 705s. You forget or refuse to acknowledge that many on here have run literally thousands of tires and in addition to having the experience of running Shinko 705s, or ME880s, Pilot Powers, or what-ever,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, they have also run a car tire and can in fact, directly and intelligently compare every aspect of those different tires and can in fact give reports and opinions based on real world, 1st hand knowledge of how each compare and what compromises to expect with each tire choice. Those who have not run a car tire,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, they give opinions and statements based on, well,,,, not experience that's for sure. More like talking outta their rumps on a subject they don't have a clue on and can only fall back to the "experts", many of which have the samed damned actual experience which to the point is what???? None in most instances.

And finally, to address your assertion that there are absolutely no performance benefits to running a car tire vs a bike tire. You wrong ole boy,,,, wrong , wrong, dead friggen wrong. Like I have already said, the extra mass of the CT does negatively effect handling and acceleration slightly but you have to be riding very damned hard and you have to be a pretty good rider to push the envelope to a point where one would notice that. But handling and traction are two different things and I can tell you right now, the CT has at least the same amount of traction on road as the 705s I generally run and since I thought the 705s gripped better than Tourances on-road and off, the CT would then grip better than the Tourances and for example,,, a ME880. Additionally, the CT gives more traction than Kenda Big Blocks on road and believe it or not, roughly equals it on packed type dirt roads. No, not sugar sand and not mud, but rather your run of the mill maintained forestry service type road. And yes,,,, I mean traction in all aspects including cornering both on road and off. Please take notice that I did not compare the on-road traction to say a Pilot Power and I didn't compare the off road performance {other than on packed dirt roads} to a TKC. I did not and I would not because I'm honest and I don't talk outta my rump like some {make that many} do. Don't believe me,,, oh well. Opinions are like assholes and some are worse than others. Least I'm an experienced and educated asshole ehh? Some, well,,, let's juss say that some ain't.

Finally, to end my novel here,,, the CT lasts much longer than any bike tire I have run and in case you didn't know or even think of it,,,,,, there are situations where tire life is a performance benefit and not just a financial one. In my case, the impetuous to try a CT was a long trip to Central America. I wanted a tire that would last at least 15-20K miles {preferably more} two up and loaded down. There is no bike tire that I know of {especially at that time} that would give me that kind of performance that fit my bike. And yes, I know all about the various touring tires out there and don't tell me that this or that would have fit the bill,,,,, I've tried most excepting the new Commander and I'm betting that even that one would be iffy.I figured I would hate the CT but would "grin and bear it" for the trip and at first, it was exactly what I expected. I then started playing with the air pressure and believe it or not {don't really give a rat's rump}, I was pleasantly surprised. Now that I have a few thousand miles running the CT in damned near every conceivable scenario, I feel I'm pretty damned qualified to offer educated and experienced opinions and reviews of the CT vs the bike tires I've run {and I've run alot, more than many}. So,,,, if you think that one has to be " fucking stupid or ignorant to know better or understand to believe anything other than it's done to save money at the expense of performance" then you may well be the fucking ignorant one and more to the point,,,,, the one that is full of "bullshit".

So, if you are a person who is willing to go into ideas Eyes Wide Open,,,,, you can learn alot and you can decide to either try it or not based upon your own desires, wants and needs and what you deem as important based on how and what your ride. If so, why not actually try it so that you too can have 1st hand knowledge of the topic at hand. Or you can choose to be a narrow, closed minded know it all who no matter what real world data is presented from people who actually have experience with the issue, refuses to admit that other might well be accurately describing an aspect that they and not you, have experience with. Then you can adamantly shove your head in the sand and pontificate so eloquently on a subject you have not a derned clue about.


And yes,,,,,, I just got off work, was bored and had some time to kill. Don't like the wall of text,,,,, or what the gist entails,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, don't friggen read it and if ya can take that bit of advice, here's some more,,,, don't friggen reply.
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Jud screwed with this post 05-02-2012 at 12:59 AM
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Old 05-02-2012, 01:08 AM   #97
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And yes,,,,,, I just got off work, was bored and had some time to kill. Don't like the wall of text,,,,, or what the gist entails,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, don't friggen read it and if ya can take that bit of advice, here's some more,,,, don't friggen reply.


The compromises for the car tire and using street M/C tires are purely $, the compromise for using 705's and TKC's vs. street tires are on-road and off-road compromise.

Duh.
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Old 05-02-2012, 01:51 AM   #98
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I'm just sick of narrow minded people who feel they must comment reports from people who have actually tried out a car tire on the rear of a motorcycle for many thousand miles with nonsense like. "Why not a car tire in front?" "I think I will try a motorcycle tire on my truck" "I think I will try a tractor tire on my bike"

What I ride, what I've ridden, for how many years and how many miles, roads and at which speeds is unimportant.

I'm not a darksider yet, and I'm not commenting on posts from people who have tried and disliked car tires on bikes, only on blunt stupidity posts from naysayers trying to ridicule the concept of car tires for long-distance-riding..

The naysayers will ridicule any evidence presented by the darksiders, be it videos or riding reports. If they can scrape hard parts, it's just because they lean to much for the curve, and any speed in a given turn shown in a video is rejected as slow.

You are just gonna have to learn the ignore the ignorant. You are right, some ignorant people will adamantly refuse to accept that a CT might be a viable and yes, even better choice than many motorcycle tires in many circumstances. You could run, hide and leave them in the dust on a twisty section of tarmac and they would say you are riding like an adrenalin addled idiot yet they are the one that bust their ass while riding well below the performance envelope of their bike and their tires. You could show empirical evidence showing a CT has more traction than "motorcycle tire A" on road, off road, straight line and while heeled over,,,,, wouldn't matter. They will always try shoot holes, call you a liar or most likely ridicule the messenger if they couldn't come up with a half lucid, half assed educated rebuttal.

If you do choose to experiment with running a CT for yourself, you had better develop some rather thick skin or be ready to have your feelings and pride hurt if the opinion of others bear heavily on your self worth. I have had complete strangers see my bike, actually ask who's bike it was then commence to tell me how stupid I was to even try something like that and that there is no way in hell it can work. They will say the beads will fail and I could have a catastrophic failure and I tell them that I mounted that tire and their is no way in hell the beads are going to fail as compared to a bike tire. They then reply that the side wall of the tire isn't designed to be run on in this manner and will most certainly not give any traction. I tell them the tread deflects while cornering and the side wall never touches and that there is actually more tire contacting the tarmac as compared to many bike tires, especially the knobbies and 70/30 type tires I generally run. They tell me that not only am I putting my own life at risk but the lives of innocents are on the line "if" this or that were to happen. I usually tell them something to the effect that "It is working, it has been working and actually works better in my application than many motorcycle tires". I usually give them the honest pros and cons and I do not inflate the pros. I tell them all that and some refuse to hear it and commence to use ridicule in an effort to shame me into following the herd like good little sheep do. Some say that it might be OK for a slow ass rider who can't ride and goes slow and I usually leave when they do and proceed to show them the ass end view of my car tire in action,,,,, untill I get far enough ahead. Those are the ones that will then get mad and rant about people riding like squids.

I can generally tell pretty quick if they are the dumbass, narrow minded type and those I usually don't even worry with. Those the the peanut gallery types I referred to.Just ignore them and maybe throw a few jabs in their general direction but don't bother trying to have educated debate with em. You will never win and like wrestling a pig in the mud,,,,, you will end up looking just as bad.

Some,,,,, some I debate with and often the debate gets rather lively but I figure I might be able to at least get them to think for themselves and maybe they might actually change their views. The CT may or may not be an viable choice for them but they might actually decide "to each their own" and accept what might be the best or at the very least, a damned good choice for one may not be a good choice for another and it no reason to ridicule someone for being different.

A few actually decide to experiment for themselves and try it. Some don't like it as the compromises outweigh the benefits in their application. Some decide that the CT works for them but despite it working perfectly well, they are not willing to be the odd man out and open themselves to the ridicule of the peanut gallery.

Finally, a few try it, like it in their application and don't give two shits what the peanut gallery has to dish out.
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Old 05-02-2012, 02:20 AM   #99
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The compromises for the car tire and using street M/C tires are purely $, the compromise for using 705's and TKC's vs. street tires are on-road and off-road compromise.

Duh.
I will repeat, the CT on my DL has the same if not more traction, staright up or when heeled over as any of the tires I've run so far on my DL650 which include705s, Big Blocks and Tourances.

I will repeat, tire longevity can be a performance benefit as opposed to a finacial benefit {who wants to fiddle with changing a tire during a trip if they don't absolutely have to????}

Well,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, duh!
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Old 05-02-2012, 03:02 AM   #100
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I will repeat, the CT on my DL has the same if not more traction, staright up or when heeled over as any of the tires I've run so far on my DL650 which include705s, Big Blocks and Tourances.
Big blocks maybe, but how's the off-road performance compare on the CT?

705's and Tourances, perhaps if you ride like my GF. No wait, she's pretty fast. Maybe my mom.

Compare it to a street tire Maynard.

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I will repeat, tire longevity can be a performance benefit as opposed to a financial benefit {who wants to fiddle with changing a tire during a trip if they don't absolutely have to????}
Longevity isn't a performance benefit. 'Fiddling' could be a convenience benefit. If money weren't the issue then a street M/C tire (assuming you don't need any off-road performance since you even consider putting a CT on) would last 6-7K miles, enought to cross the US twice, or make it to any place in central then change and So America on a transcontinental trip.

So it's $ vs. performance.

Even when I'm a geezer and riding slower (though not as slow as you it seems) and on a fixed income, I'll not be using car tires.
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Old 05-02-2012, 08:30 AM   #101
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Tire Mounting

Jud -

Do you mount & balance your own car tires or do you have a shop do the work? I'm doing my own motorcycle tires now with this:



The Moose Racing stand, once secured to the garage floor, seems to work OK even with a friend's low-profile FJR1300 rear tires (180/55R17). A compressor and lots of Ru-Glyde gets the beads seated pretty quickly and easily in most cases.

The front tires, surprisingly, are a bigger challenge on all of the bikes that I've done, maybe because of the narrower drop wells in the front wheels. What do you think - stout enough for a 50-series car tire?

On the subject of cost vs. performance trade-offs, that question probably won't get answered to everyones' satisfaction until someone with something like Keith Code's outrigger-equipped Lean/Slide bike does a head-to-head comparison of the two types of tires on the same bike w/ the same rider on the same track under similar weather conditions. It would be an interesting comparison, from the perspective of cornering traction as well as from that of straight-line braking. Maybe one of our members with connections in the industry can make it happen?

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Old 05-02-2012, 11:34 AM   #102
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The naysayers all act alike. You say that a car tire works better for you than a dual sport tire like the Shinko 705 both on and off-road, and the naysayer pulls a straw man and claims that the comparison should be against a street-only tire.

I had a boss like that once, and we joked about making a special foosball table for him: We would have the normal players on axles, and he would have a movable goal. Now foosball is fast, and a better analogy would be shooting hoops:

You can see the ball flying cleanly towards the hoop, or you in midst of a slam-dunk, and the opposing team moves the hoop and claim the hoop was always in that position.
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Old 05-02-2012, 12:34 PM   #103
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I am considering going to the darkside and was hoping to get some info on what size works best.. thanks in advance
Seven pages and still no answer to the original question. A couple people gave their guesses at CT size. One person entered a report on his experience with CTs on a DL1000 and didn't give a tire size.

Can someone who has run the darkside on a strom give this poor guy and answer and not just an opinion?
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Old 05-02-2012, 01:25 PM   #104
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http://www.stromtrooper.com/629645-post15.html

Quote:
I'm running a General Altimax Atric 205/50-17 on the back of my Vee
Poster RandyO, on his V-Strom 1000

Stromtroopers is the place to go for V-Strom darkside advice.

http://www.stromtrooper.com/637178-post182.html
Quote:
FJR and Strom's share rear tire sizing. Anyway, for anyone else considering them, some of the guys on FJRForum.com have been testing out a variety of tires and have found some to be better than others. So far, the list is:

- Bridgestone Potenza 019 Grid
- BFGoodrich g-Force Sport
- Yokohama Advan S4 A82A
- Michelin Pilot Sport A/S Plus
...etc.

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Old 05-02-2012, 01:39 PM   #105
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Just out of curiosity.. isn´t this what happens, when you are cornering:



The red marks the contact patch, which common sense would say will be considerably smaller, when you use a type of tyre, that does not have a round profile. Both tyres will flex a little under weight, but their respective contact patch sizes should still have about the same difference in area, which in turn has a lot to do with grip.

Another thing to consider is, are car tyres actually meant to be ridden on their ´shoulder´ like that? Especially if you did a lot of mountain roads, could it not generate a lot of heat into that one narrow area on the tyre surface?

Do insurance companies allow you to use car tyres on motorcycles (..over in Europe, there are some countries, where they don´t even allow to use mc-tyres, unless those specific tyres are tested for that particular bike model)?

I´m not claiming anything, just wondering about a few things. And I do believe car tyres could work on straight highway-riding.

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