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Old 04-08-2012, 07:12 AM   #151
Tucson Jim
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To be honest, he was pretty nuts before that!
Don't know about that, here he is before the accident/brain injury in his academy award nominated Buddy Holly movie. He does his own singing and playing the guitar. Now he can't even work a toaster, let alone ride a bike.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHaK7tYTFgg
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Old 04-08-2012, 07:18 AM   #152
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Is ATGATT overrated??? Maybe until you lay your bike down. I dropped a Strom at 15 MPH. Head smacked into the pavement. I always wore a helmet, but since then go full ATGATT regardless of temperature or conditions.

With out my lid that day I probably would be a slobbering idiot, instead of the general idiot I am normally.
So I say, wear your gear!
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Old 04-08-2012, 07:51 AM   #153
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I don't think ATGATT is over rated, but I don't do it.

I have all the gear, and wear it when I'm on a trip or tour, but I must admit, The only things I wear all the time are gloves and a helmet. I've been injured as well, but I still fudge quite a bit if I'm running errands and such.

Even when I wear all my gear, I have removed the knee armor from my pants and elbow armor on one of my jackets. The armor is uncomfortable on those garments.

I am doing a lot more dirt riding these days and I am thinking about a pressure suit and Leatt brace. Does anyone here use a Leatt and can comment about plus and minus?

I find boots are pretty important. I broke an ankle a few years ago wearing a velcro street boot. Now I wear buckle boots only. I just bought a new pair of Gaerne Oiled Balance boots. They are a trials boot I think. Sort of like an MX boot, but only three buckles tall and with a softer sole. Very comfy, so I expect I'll probably be as diligent with those as I am with helmet and gloves.

Regarding danger, I've been riding all my life and know motorcycles are dangerous. They've hurt me before but it's not something I dwell on. I think DAKEZ is wrong about that. I mean a fender bender can kill you on a motorcycle, and we've all that them driving a car.
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Old 04-08-2012, 04:27 PM   #154
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Originally Posted by Pantah View Post
Regarding danger, I've been riding all my life and know motorcycles are dangerous. They've hurt me before but it's not something I dwell on. I think DAKEZ is wrong about that. I mean a fender bender can kill you on a motorcycle, and we've all that them driving a car.
Well Put. It doesn't take much to get hurt or killed. Falling over w/o a helmet could be fatal. 5 feet, straight onto concrete is enough for a fatal brain injury. It doesn't take much to subject the brain to fatal g-forces without a helmet.
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Old 04-08-2012, 04:53 PM   #155
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I was T-boned by a car the Sunday before Thanksgiving. Repair estimate for the bike was $24,000, and they were all but positive that they'd find another $4-5,000 worth of damage once they got into it. On the way to the hospital, I was asked by the paramedics if I had a living will, and if they could call my wife and ask her to bring it with her to the hospital. The look on everyone's face scared the hell out of me, and it wasn't until the CAT scans came back showing no closed-head injuries that people started talking to me as if I might live another hour.

The end result was a couple of cracked ribs, a shattered kneecap (with no soft tissue damage), two broken bones in my right hand, a crushed left wrist, a huge bruise on my right hip from landing on my knife, and around a dozen stitches by my right eye.

I was wearing a pair of Danner Ft. Lewis boots, Fox Creek chaps over Levi's, Lee Parks DeerSports gloves, an FXRG armored leather jacket over a T-shirt, sunglasses, and a HCI-100 half helmet.

Say what you want about half helmets, that HCI saved my life. That said, a modular or full-face would have prevented the eye stitches. My boots were scarred up pretty good (still wearable though). My feet were sore and bruised, but intact. Super-expensive moto-specific boots would have made no difference. There is no question in my mind that armored pants would have saved my knee and my hip (wouldn't have had the knife there). On top of that, it was no fun having my jeans removed from my knee where the heat seared them to it. I landed on my right elbow and back as I tumbled, and both were fine thanks to the FXRG's armor. The ribs cracked when my elbow was driven into them one of the times I hit the ground. No glove in the world would have saved my hands as I instinctively punched the pavement trying to prevent a face plant.

Oh, and all of this happened at around 35mph.

I still ride, and I have no intention of stopping. Knowing what I know, I'm all about riding pants now. I'm in a full-face helmet now too. Does this mean I'm always going to be ATGATT? DamnifIknow. I do know that hitting the pavement not only hurts, it's damn inconvenient, and it's something I'll be feeling for the rest of my life. Am I afraid? Nope. I just don't want to repeat the above experience again.
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Old 04-08-2012, 05:31 PM   #156
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Originally Posted by blk-betty View Post

Guess I have been lucky, or a careful rider, who knows but many of the guys posting here who are the strongest advocates for ATGATT seem to have been down quite a bit.
I can't speak for anyone else, but in my case it was racing. Try it sometime, you will have a wreck or two.
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Old 04-08-2012, 06:13 PM   #157
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I can't speak for anyone else, but in my case it was racing. Try it sometime, you will have a wreck or two.
Yea it seems like a lot of the get offs guys describe were on the track.

I've never been on a track and I often wonder if track experience leads to one riding a little bit hotter on the street because skills are developed that those of us without track experience don't have and i don't see how those skills aren't carried over onto the street.

Certainly track days will make one a better rider. Just wonder if the "better rider" would put himself in more dangerous situations. Number one reason for bike accidents is going too fast into a turn. I freely admit I don't have the discipline for restraint and if I knew or experienced the limits of my bikes I bet I'd ride faster. The floorboards on my HD serve as my reminder to ease up long before the bikes limits are exceeded.
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Old 04-08-2012, 06:17 PM   #158
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I am to old to bounce, and I am not through riding.

Full face, jacket, gloves, boots and very seldom jeans instead of over pants.



And yes, I have down, riding faster than I could think.
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Old 04-08-2012, 06:37 PM   #159
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Originally Posted by blk-betty View Post
Yea it seems like a lot of the get offs guys describe were on the track.

I've never been on a track and I often wonder if track experience leads to one riding a little bit hotter on the street because skills are developed that those of us without track experience don't have and i don't see how those skills aren't carried over onto the street.

Certainly track days will make one a better rider. Just wonder if the "better rider" would put himself in more dangerous situations. Number one reason for bike accidents is going too fast into a turn. I freely admit I don't have the discipline for restraint and if I knew or experienced the limits of my bikes I bet I'd ride faster. The floorboards on my HD serve as my reminder to ease up long before the bikes limits are exceeded.
Head on back to the dragon thread and ask I am little track time would have helped or hindered the folk running wide or dragging their floorboards enough to lift one of the wheels off the ground.

That thread is chock full of people running out of talent long before the bike's limits are exceeded.
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Old 04-08-2012, 06:43 PM   #160
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/



And yes, I have down, riding faster than I could think.
And sometimes that's surprisingly slow isn't it?
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Old 04-08-2012, 06:46 PM   #161
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Originally Posted by blk-betty View Post
Yea it seems like a lot of the get offs guys describe were on the track.

I've never been on a track and I often wonder if track experience leads to one riding a little bit hotter on the street because skills are developed that those of us without track experience don't have and i don't see how those skills aren't carried over onto the street.

Certainly track days will make one a better rider. Just wonder if the "better rider" would put himself in more dangerous situations. Number one reason for bike accidents is going too fast into a turn. I freely admit I don't have the discipline for restraint and if I knew or experienced the limits of my bikes I bet I'd ride faster. The floorboards on my HD serve as my reminder to ease up long before the bikes limits are exceeded.


I, and every racer/track dayer I've ever spoken to slowed down their street riding after going to the track. Once you've been on the track you realize just how NOT fast you can actually go on the street and therefore slow down because it's futile. I have had a couple offs on the street since I raced, but they were both low speed spills.
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Old 04-08-2012, 06:49 PM   #162
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Head on back to the dragon thread and ask I am little track time would have helped or hindered the folk running wide or dragging their floorboards enough to lift one of the wheels off th ground.
Really no way to tell. A "little" track time may give someone more confidence than they deserve resulting in riding the dragon harder whereas a 'lot" of track time would definately help assuimg the track time was on the same bike.

Personalities are different...some would use the track time to hone their skills which they carry over to the street for the intent of safety while others would use the skills to allow them to run faster on the street.

Nice thing about a HD is the floorboards fold up and when they first touch you still have a good bit of lean left before you need to worry about lifting a wheel. Not to mention they make a hell of racket when they scrape so you know early on before things start to get dicey. Of course if you come in too hot to begin with you may be over your head but a few practice runs at a slower pace will let you know when and where your "curb feelers" will come into play.
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Old 04-08-2012, 06:58 PM   #163
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I, and every racer/track dayer I've ever spoken to slowed down their street riding after going to the track. Once you've been on the track you realize just how NOT fast you can actually go on the street and therefore slow down because it's futile. I have had a couple offs on the street since I raced, but they were both low speed spills.
Good to know!

Goes aganist what I would have thought and just goes to show I don't know shit.

Only seasoned track rider I ever rode with was a 60-65 year old who at the time was riding a KLR on a group ride I was leading and he blew by me on my Tiger 1050 running 60 on a flat road with long s-curve sweepers that was posted for 55 mph. WTF, this guy was 60-65 and on a KLR!!!!! I sped up and was running 80-85 for about 2-3 miles hanging about 75 feet behind him.

His other bike is a R1 and he claims to have gone down on the track at around 120 mph. He's a ex-military fighter pilot so adrenline rushes and risk taking are in his blood.
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Old 04-08-2012, 06:58 PM   #164
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Originally Posted by blk-betty View Post
Really no way to tell. A "little" track time may give someone more confidence than they deserve resulting in riding the dragon harder whereas a 'lot" of track time would definately help assuimg the track time was on the same bike.

Personalities are different...some would use the track time to hone their skills which they carry over to the street for the intent of safety while others would use the skills to allow them to run faster on the street.

Nice thing about a HD is the floorboards fold up and when they first touch you still have a good bit of lean left before you need to worry about lifting a wheel. Not to mention they make a hell of racket when they scrape so you know early on before things start to get dicey. Of course if you come in too hot to begin with you may be over your head but a few practice runs at a slower pace will let you know when and where your "curb feelers" will come into play.
Like I said, the Dragon Thread is chock full of folks running out of talent long before their bike runs out of ability. If someone has 1 track day under their belt, they will understand that the rear brake is not the only functioning brake on the bike. There is plenty of rear brake only action going on in that thread. So lack of skill is a huge liability.

I have no doubt that personalities differ, but I equate someone who has taken the time to try a track day, with someone who has an above average skillset. Of course, being above average really isn't much to crow about..
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Old 04-08-2012, 07:19 PM   #165
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Just a couple of observations...

On the first page of this threat, the question was raised as to whether this would "end well" and were we capable of a civil discussion. So far so good - speaks to the quality of people here and the range of experience represented.

Second, we still haven't sorted out just exactly what constitutes ATGATT. You wearing all your gear and me wearing all mine might be two different things. I'd respectfully suggest that as serious riders, we spend less time and blood pressure stewing over whether failing to wear a neck brace makes one a squid, and more time promoting a reasonable "minimum standard". The guy wearing a 3/4 helmet, work or hiking boots, gloves and jeans, may not be the ideal, but he's far, far ahead of the more typical shorts/wifebeater/tennis shoe combo I see dozens of times every day.

I got passed on I-95 the other day by a Hyabusa - the rider wearing a helmet, t-shirt, cargo shorts, and hi-tops, the little girl on back, boy shorts, a sports bra (no shirt at all), low-tops, and sunglasses. He was probably running 100-115. That's just bullshit, folks....
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