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Old 04-11-2012, 01:00 PM   #211
JimVonBaden
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klaviator View Post
So anyone who takes risks is stupid???

If I want avoid doing anything risky I will need to quit my job and hide out in a sterile room. If I do that I may risk dieing of boredom. Therefore, no matter what I do, by your definition, I'm Stupid
Well, if the shoe fits.....


Seriously, you guys will twist it anyway you like, but my meaning was clear. There is a level of risk we are all willing to take, but if you fail to minimize the risk, then you could be called stupid.

By your logic, why bother even learning how to ride? Jump on a 200HP bike with no training and no gear and go for it, That isn't stupid at all!

Jim
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Old 04-11-2012, 01:07 PM   #212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimVonBaden View Post
Seriously, you guys will twist it anyway you like, but my meaning was clear. There is a level of risk we are all willing to take, but if you fail to minimize the risk, then you could be called stupid.


Jim

No twisting needed.


You stated...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimVonBaden View Post
That is exactly when a person is exibiting stupid behavior. If you do not understand the risks, you are ignorant. If you know them and ignore the risks, then you are stupid.

Jim
Anyone that rides a bike does that last bit every day. Essentially you feel that people that ride motorcycles are stupid.
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Old 04-11-2012, 01:08 PM   #213
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimVonBaden View Post
Well, if the shoe fits.....


Seriously, you guys will twist it anyway you like, but my meaning was clear. There is a level of risk we are all willing to take, but if you fail to minimize the risk, then you could be called stupid.

By your logic, why bother even learning how to ride? Jump on a 200HP bike with no training and no gear and go for it, That isn't stupid at all!

Jim
There is a big difference between jumping on a 200 HP bike with no training and gear and an experienced rider wearing jeans instead of armored pants for a five mile ride to Wal Mart. One is likely to end in disaster, the other is not.

If you ride a motorcycle instead of driving a steel cage with multiple airbags, you are not minimizing your risk so by your definition, you are stupid.
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Old 04-11-2012, 01:31 PM   #214
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimVonBaden View Post
That is exactly when a person is exibiting stupid behavior. If you do not understand the risks, you are ignorant. If you know them and ignore the risks, then you are stupid.
You're completely wrong.
Ignorant: Knowing the risks, but thinking "won't happen to me".
Stupid: Not understanding the risks.

Most of the non-ATGATT people here realize and understand the risks, but DECIDE to take them to increase their quality of life. And in fact, that's all life is about - deciding what risks you want to take to HAVE A GOOD LIFE.
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Old 04-11-2012, 01:52 PM   #215
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wraith Rider View Post
Ignorant: Knowing the risks, but thinking "won't happen to me".
actually, "ignorant" means not knowing. your definition of "stupid" actually fits the word "ignorant" quite well. your definition of "ignorant" does not, however.

the actual definition of "ignorant" is:

1. Lacking education or knowledge.
2. Showing or arising from a lack of education or knowledge: an ignorant mistake.
3. Unaware or uninformed.

(from http://www.thefreedictionary.com/ignorant)

"ignorant" is an objective notion (you either know something or you do not know it--i.e., you are either aware of something or ignorant of it).

"stupid" is subjective. what one person considers stupid, another may consider not stupid (and, they could both be right--if they have different utility curves).
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Old 04-11-2012, 01:53 PM   #216
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Originally Posted by TrashCan View Post
Do you think ATGATT would have saved him about 3.3 million per year???
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Originally Posted by Wuwei View Post
No, but better judgment would have.
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Old 04-11-2012, 01:56 PM   #217
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This illustrates exactly why I oppose helmet laws. I think that anybody who doesn't wear all the gear, all the time is stupid. No offense, but that really is how I view things. However, I know that some people think anybody who rides is stupid, no matter how much gear they wear. I wouldn't want their view of stupid to be the basis for legislation so I will not impose my view of stupid on you either.
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Old 04-11-2012, 02:53 PM   #218
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+1 for Rideabout and Cliffy109!
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Old 04-11-2012, 02:53 PM   #219
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Originally Posted by cliffy109 View Post
This illustrates exactly why I oppose helmet laws. I think that anybody who doesn't wear all the gear, all the time is stupid. No offense, but that really is how I view things. However, I know that some people think anybody who rides is stupid, no matter how much gear they wear. I wouldn't want their view of stupid to be the basis for legislation so I will not impose my view of stupid on you either.









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Old 04-11-2012, 02:58 PM   #220
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleRedToyota View Post
actually, "ignorant" means not knowing. your definition of "stupid" actually fits the word "ignorant" quite well. your definition of "ignorant" does not, however.

the actual definition of "ignorant" is:

1. Lacking education or knowledge.
2. Showing or arising from a lack of education or knowledge: an ignorant mistake.
3. Unaware or uninformed.

(from http://www.thefreedictionary.com/ignorant)

"ignorant" is an objective notion (you either know something or you do not know it--i.e., you are either aware of something or ignorant of it).

"stupid" is subjective. what one person considers stupid, another may consider not stupid (and, they could both be right--if they have different utility curves).
Ah well, maybe I fell into the german-english trap here (my mother tongue is German), thinking that "beeing ignorant" is related to "ignore something".

But still, being stupid is not subjective, it's just not understanding facts. Gear is protective, it would be stupid to not understand that. But knowing that and deciding to wear it or not, is not related to being stupid or not.
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Old 04-11-2012, 03:03 PM   #221
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RideAbout View Post
Zing....!

Brains
Skill

Gear

... in order of importance. Even if you're a new rider... Brains = #1





It is very clear he was lacking the first two on that list.
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Old 04-11-2012, 03:11 PM   #222
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I think the 25-year old girl on the back may have been distracting him somehow. Not sure if that makes him ignorant, stupid, or brilliant!
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Old 04-11-2012, 04:12 PM   #223
JimVonBaden
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klaviator View Post
There is a big difference between jumping on a 200 HP bike with no training and gear and an experienced rider wearing jeans instead of armored pants for a five mile ride to Wal Mart. One is likely to end in disaster, the other is not.

If you ride a motorcycle instead of driving a steel cage with multiple airbags, you are not minimizing your risk so by your definition, you are stupid.
You make my point, thanks!

Jim
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Old 04-11-2012, 04:13 PM   #224
JimVonBaden
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wraith Rider View Post
You're completely wrong.
Ignorant: Knowing the risks, but thinking "won't happen to me".
Stupid: Not understanding the risks.

Most of the non-ATGATT people here realize and understand the risks, but DECIDE to take them to increase their quality of life. And in fact, that's all life is about - deciding what risks you want to take to HAVE A GOOD LIFE.
/\ Definition of ignorant!

Jim
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Old 04-11-2012, 04:21 PM   #225
JimVonBaden
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wraith Rider View Post
Ah well, maybe I fell into the german-english trap here (my mother tongue is German), thinking that "beeing ignorant" is related to "ignore something".

But still, being stupid is not subjective, it's just not understanding facts. Gear is protective, it would be stupid to not understand that. But knowing that and deciding to wear it or not, is not related to being stupid or not.
Stupid:

stu·pid(stpd, sty-)
adj. stu·pid·er, stu·pid·est 1. Slow to learn or understand; obtuse.
2. Tending to make poor decisions or careless mistakes.
3. Marked by a lack of intelligence or care; foolish or careless: a stupid mistake.
4. Dazed, stunned, or stupefied.
5. Pointless; worthless: a stupid job.

Seriously, we all ride, we all understand that riding has certain inherant risks that we accept. Most understand that a minimum level of gear that includes full face helmet, armored jacket, pants and gloves, plus proper boots help to minimize that risk.

Chosing to take the risk with full knowledge of the consequences is a choice. Choosing to pretend like the risk doesn't exist and riding in flipflops, shorts and no helmet believing you won't get hurt because you wont crash is MY definition of Stupid.

Wear what you like, I won't tell you not too, but I will likely think you are stupid.

Jim

PS Want to mince words and pretend like you do not get what I mean, get all indignant and mouth off about it? No problem, have at it. Disagree, no problem either.
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