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Old 04-21-2012, 12:32 PM   #286
doorman
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I can't recall ever getting on my motorcycle and not traveling over 15mph. That's kind of why I own it. Otherwise I would just take the bicycle. In my mind when I say ATGATT, it excludes traveling at 15mph or below. However, there is no circumstance in which I would be riding strictly below 15mph.
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Old 04-21-2012, 01:03 PM   #287
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Originally Posted by doorman View Post
In my mind when I say ATGATT, it excludes...
See, that's the problem with "all the gear ALL the time", bicycle-speeds aren't excluded. It's "whenEVER you ride your motorcycle you wear EVERY part of the gear", no exclusions, that's the meaning of ATGATT.
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Old 04-21-2012, 01:11 PM   #288
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...but a ride below 15mph doesn't exist for me. It is excluded from ATGATT, because it is situation that I will never encounter. That's my point.
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Old 04-21-2012, 08:08 PM   #289
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Originally Posted by Wraith Rider View Post
@doorman
We all should remember this the next time we ride our bicycles at 15mph without an armored jacket.
This is a good point, we think nothing of cruising a long at 30 mph on our bicycles wearing nothing more than shorts and a styrofoam beanie.

Obviously, these things are quite relative. I regularly ski at speeds approaching 50mph w/o a helmet. I know, I know, I should have one, but my point being these decisions as cut and dry as we would like to thing. I don't wear a chin bar when I kayak, heck 15 years ago they were unheard of, now some people wear face masks, shoulder and elbow pads.
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Old 04-21-2012, 09:32 PM   #290
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Vanilla Ice wasn't ATGATT and he was totally bad ass. I'm going to sell my gear so that I can be Cool as Ice.


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Old 04-22-2012, 05:38 AM   #291
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I love that movie.
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Old 04-22-2012, 08:29 AM   #292
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Originally Posted by Wraith Rider View Post
Cruising around at your local bike stop to show off a bit at say 15mph
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Old 04-22-2012, 11:07 AM   #293
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This is a good point, we think nothing of cruising a long at 30 mph on our bicycles wearing nothing more than shorts and a styrofoam beanie.

Obviously, these things are quite relative. I regularly ski at speeds approaching 50mph w/o a helmet. I know, I know, I should have one, but my point being these decisions as cut and dry as we would like to thing. I don't wear a chin bar when I kayak, heck 15 years ago they were unheard of, now some people wear face masks, shoulder and elbow pads.

I don't burn 1200 calories per hour riding my motorcycle with the consequent heat generated.

You can't practically wear full armour on a bicycle. That's the difference for me.

And if you don't think I'm nervous as shit riding at 70 kph on my bicycle wearing only fingerless gloves and a helmet, you have another think coming.
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Old 04-22-2012, 12:07 PM   #294
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I don't burn 1200 calories per hour riding my motorcycle with the consequent heat generated.

You can't practically wear full armour on a bicycle. That's the difference for me.

And if you don't think I'm nervous as shit riding at 70 kph on my bicycle wearing only fingerless gloves and a helmet, you have another think coming.
So it's a comfort thing for you on the bicycle? Avoiding to sweat? Why not at least armored gloves and a full face helmet (motocross style)? Maybe elbow protectors? Gear up as save as possible, no?

Or... very extreme... don't ride that fast on your bicycle if it's impossible for you to gear up? For me, if I was going to take such risks, I couldn't see why with the bicycle I would do it and with the motorcycle I would not.
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Old 04-22-2012, 10:07 PM   #295
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You have never had any good gear have you?

Wear whatever you like but to infer or imply that a pair of cover-alls protects as good as riding gear is just plain silly.

Somewhere around 1000 spills on the dirt ?, a lot less on road.

Yeah, good gear probably would have protected better, but the numbers say that it has to be a less than 1 in 1000 chance (for my riding history) that it would have made a significant difference to the damage I took.

The second major damager after head injury appears to be naked skin in sliding contact with terrain - get that out of the equation and the amount of damage drops significantly.

If you want a LOT more protection, I hear being belted into a couple of tons of steel might help - but I also hear people still die in them things.

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Old 04-23-2012, 05:20 AM   #296
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For me bicycle riding actually works very well to prove the value of low speed ATTGAT. You see I have never been seriously injured on a motorcycle despite a lot of ugly crashes. Whether it was being hit by cars or nasty offroad crashes into trees and rocks the worst I have done to myself is a bad concussion. Granted there is an element of luck involved in not being seriously injured.

But you make your own luck and ATTGAT has been a big part of luck with motorcycle crashes. The flip side is that I completely gave up bicycle riding on the highway because I got badly injured several times. Everyone of those injuries were at 30mph or less and the direct result of not wearing equivalent gear. So bicycle riding, to me, actually proves how valuable armor is even for low speeds.
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Old 04-23-2012, 08:02 AM   #297
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If a fellow believes he is too awesome for safety gear, well... Pbbbsssttt, who cares. Don't wear the safety gear.

I on the other hand, will buy and wear atgatt.
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Old 04-23-2012, 09:47 AM   #298
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Originally Posted by Wraith Rider View Post
So it's a comfort thing for you on the bicycle? Avoiding to sweat? Why not at least armored gloves and a full face helmet (motocross style)? Maybe elbow protectors? Gear up as save as possible, no?

Or... very extreme... don't ride that fast on your bicycle if it's impossible for you to gear up? For me, if I was going to take such risks, I couldn't see why with the bicycle I would do it and with the motorcycle I would not.
I sweat like a pig on my bicycle. It isn't to avoid sweating. It's to avoid collapsing from overheating.

Would I wear better protective equipment on a bicycle when riding at high speeds? Yes, if available and it didn't trap heat so bad that I collapse.

The point of my previous post, however, was that it is not a direct comparison between motorcycle riding and bicycle riding and that it's about more than the relative speeds.
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Old 04-23-2012, 01:06 PM   #299
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A friend of mine.

I fought the dog and the dog won.
Sunday evening I was riding home and decided to take a short detour near my home just to see what the recent excavation work had accomplished. 3 houses from the corner going about 15 -20 mph when two mid size dogs came running at full speed from a blind drive on my right.
No time to react as they ran in front of my vulcan 500. 1st dog cleared but second dog hit my front tire full force turning my wheel as it rose and rolled over his body. when the tire landed it was fully tuned and the bike flipped. My right knee was crushed between the tank and the gravel covered asphalt,then I slid across a driveway and dropped 3-4' into a ditch lined with large limestone rocks.
My right tibia was a clean break but right at the knee joint, my ACL & MCL were torn loose The landing on the rocks broke 5 ribs shattered my right shoulder and did a lot of damage to the joint.
5 hours of surgery put the knee and leg back together with a plate & 5 screws and 2 more screws to re-attach the ligaments. Everything else was in pieces but in place so no need for surgery.
I am in rehab now and will be for a while. The leg damage will require 3 months befre i can put my full weight on it and the r shouder can't take a crutch so i will be in a wheelchair for a while.

THE GOOD NEWS
The dog seems to be okay!


I was wearing very little gear. 1/2 helmet, leather boots, blue jeans, and a t-shirt.



This is why I wear atgatt.
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Old 04-23-2012, 01:49 PM   #300
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The point of my previous post, however, was that it is not a direct comparison between motorcycle riding and bicycle riding and that it's about more than the relative speeds.
If you go down, the comparison is very straight forward.
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