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Old 08-21-2013, 06:01 AM   #796
Pecha72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vertical C View Post
I have certainly got heat stroke on a motorcycle. More than once. You live in a cold climate, it is different. Heat stroke on a bike is a legitmate concern here.

Seriously I challenge you to try to highside my scooter from standstill. Its impossible. Its got like 6hp.
Well I guess you need to learn some basic prevention methods, if you keep getting heat strokes on a motorcycle.

 
In fact Iīve ridden my motorcycle in Australia, as I made an overland-trip from Europe to Oz five years ago... and I wore my black Dainese two-piece leather suit all the time. Had no place to put it on the bike either. The hottest days on the trip were actually in Australia, +45-47 Celsius for almost a week near Adelaide. Yeah, it was pretty hot, but just having breaks, drinking lots of water, taking care to also get the salt back, that you lose by sweating, I didnīt really have any problems with the heat, even wearing the suit. For me, some of the tropical regions before Australia, like Malaysia and Indonesia, were actually worse, maybe only like +30-35 Celsius, but with very high humidity, and spent several months in those areas. Still wore the leathers, and no heatstroke.

 
And a scooter?? Now that you finally run out of arguments, you suddenly decide that this isnīt about motorcycles, itīs about a 6hp scooter, right!
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Old 08-21-2013, 06:10 AM   #797
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Originally Posted by Wraith Rider View Post
Just remember, that these statistics contribute nothing to the discussion, because most driving happens within ten miles as well. If, for examples, fatalities double but exposition time triples, it's stell safer.
Maybe where you ride most rides are less than ten miles. Where I ride this is seldom the case.

The point is that there is an increase in fatalities when driving in the area you are most familiar with. Attention to potential hazards lapses because the familiarity promotes a false sense of safety.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wraith Rider View Post
Right is, I have nearly no experience with painful abrasions - whenever I crashed I was properly geared. (Well with the exception of that one time on the bicycle in my youth - gloves would have been nice.)

That's interesting, because dirt biker should know best that there are times with high accident probability and times with low accident probability and that different gear is neaded for different types of riding.
How much time have you spent riding single track or motocross?

In my years of experience riding trails I do not recall ever presuming that I will need less gear on some rides and more on others. Any given ride might have the various elements you describe, but I didn't take off gear I knew I would want another hundred feet down the trail.

For me it was skinning knees, elbows, hands, etc. that taught me to cover those areas. Once this lesson was learned I simply didn't go riding trails without the gear.

When I started riding street, my motto was "only cover the skin I don't want to lose." Which meant cover everything. And it has payed off time and again. Even without crashing, having protection from airborne debris and critters has reinforced the choice as being a good one, for me.

Your mileage may vary.
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Old 08-21-2013, 06:42 AM   #798
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Well I dont care if people arent going to wear the best gear possible then I will continue to make similar risk decisions based on my level of acceptable risk.

You ride your ride and I will ride mine. You dont have to put up with the heat exhaustion and you wont have to put up with the injuries.

Too many people who know what is best for everyone else.
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Old 08-21-2013, 06:53 AM   #799
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vertical C View Post
I have certainly got heat stroke on a motorcycle. More than once. You live in a cold climate, it is different. Heat stroke on a bike is a legitmate concern here.

Seriously I challenge you to try to highside my scooter from standstill. Its impossible. Its got like 6hp.

I have 19 years riding this year as well (over 300000km). I dont wear atgatt and never been in an ambulance. That is the way I choose to ride, not what I wear.
Ummm, if you had a "heat stroke" it is doubtfull you'd still be riding in any weather above 85 F or so for very long.
If you ahd a heat injury from gear, well,,,,,,,,,You're doing it wrong. It does get a tad warm in these parts, humid too. I mostly wear gear to keep cool. I'll ride in a 75 F bubble any time when it is over 100 degrees. Gonna have a heat injury in that wnvironment? Possible but then, You're doing it wrong again. Yep get all the brain dead smat azz remarks on nearly every ride too.

To each his own.
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Old 08-21-2013, 07:28 AM   #800
astrolump
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last weekend...75 feet from my front door a bicyclist was hit by a douche woman in a Mercedes..the bicyclist was crossing at a crosswalk with a light and T BONED.

4 lane surface street 45 posted but here in sFLA more like 55 is the norm. when the ambulance left..the firemen were nice enough to hose his brain matter into the drain....he left with an empty cranium. the ambulance didnt even bother to turn on their flashers as they left.

he was wearing a red white and blue bandanna for head protection...the street was scattered with his take out wings and curly fries...judging by the amount of containers i guess he was picking up dinner for his family.

a simple bike helmet could have changed his story....
it would be nice to ride in a tee shirt and backwards baseball cap....until ole newton catches up with you.

but in the end i don't care what you wear...there are 7 billion people on this rock...somebody will step up and take your place in the gene pool.
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Old 08-21-2013, 08:26 AM   #801
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vertical C View Post
Well I dont care if people arent going to wear the best gear possible then I will continue to make similar risk decisions based on my level of acceptable risk.
If people do this, then I do that... if bicyclists don't wear gear, I won't either.. why on Earth do you care so much about what others are doing?

Just because somebody (or a lot of people) are doing something, doesn't automatically mean it's a wise thing to do. Many people ride motorcycles without a helmet, even though there is lots of evidence that it ain't the smartest thing to do. And it's not obligatory to make wise decisions either, they just don't tend to bite you back as often as more stupid decisions.
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Old 08-21-2013, 08:52 AM   #802
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Wear a helmet, wear a seatbelt, don't smoke, don't drink (and drive), look both ways before crossing, wear a life jacket, take your vitamins and eat your vegetables, etc etc.

some do and some don't. you do what you do and don't worry about everyone else so much. unless they have an IQ below about 90, which is at the shallow end of the bell curve anyways, they can make their own decisions and it doesn't concern us.

personally, I exercise all of the above so I must be a frickin genius. except of course I could choose to not ride motos or bicycles so maybe I aint all that intelligent.
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Old 08-21-2013, 08:56 AM   #803
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Originally Posted by BCKRider View Post
2. Good MC gear (appropriate for the conditions, and every year the stuff available becomes more versatile and user friendly) is simply more COMFORTABLE than a T-shirt and shorts when you are riding.
Maybe if one pays more for the gear than for the bike. Maybe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pecha72 View Post
Letīs not mix bicyclists into this. First of all, when they are the engine, that means producing a lot of heat in your body, which needs to be ventilated as well as possible in hot weather. And carrying a few extra kilos of gear matters as well, when you pedal the load forward.
How does producing heat with your body reduce crash injuries?

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Originally Posted by Pecha72 View Post
Yes, of course you could choose to ride using only 1st gear, for example ... but if there is any other traffic on that same road, then going slower than others would most likely not improve your safety.


I already showed you, that that's not right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MotoTex View Post
Maybe where you ride most rides are less than ten miles. Where I ride this is seldom the case.
It's simple statistics, because most driving is for going to work or shopping or take your kids to school or something. Aren't these things happening where you live?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MotoTex View Post
In my years of experience riding trails I do not recall ever presuming that I will need less gear on some rides and more on others. Any given ride might have the various elements you describe, but I didn't take off gear I knew I would want another hundred feet down the trail.

For me it was skinning knees, elbows, hands, etc. that taught me to cover those areas. Once this lesson was learned I simply didn't go riding trails without the gear.
See, that's exactly what I'm talking about. You knew you would need some gear, so you were wearing it, and you wouldn't ride in highly dangerous environment without gear. Only I didn't need years of experience or many injuries to understand that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MotoTex View Post
Your mileage may vary.
With or without gear?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pecha72 View Post
why on Earth do you care so much about what others are doing?
Interesting question from someone who's SO engaged in telling others what they should do.
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Old 08-21-2013, 09:02 AM   #804
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pantah View Post
I don't think ATGATT is over rated, but I don't do it.

I have all the gear, and wear it when I'm on a trip or tour, but I must admit, The only things I wear all the time are gloves and a helmet. I've been injured as well, but I still fudge quite a bit if I'm running errands and such.
+1

I ride for the commute in +90 degree heat most work days out of the week. If I know I'm riding the three miles home in the dark I'll wear the jacket with the helmet and gloves, but if I work a morning shift and am scheduled to ride home during daylight, I forgo the jacket some days.

Now my previous motorcycle commuting - over 22,000 miles in a year - I wore ATGATT for a number of reasons, but it really helped that we had areas that I could change my clothing. My current employer has next to no areas to change or store gear, and there isn't any way to keep dress slacks from getting wrinkled if stowed or worn under appropriate riding pants anyway.

-------

For south Florida, of the large numbers of scooter and motorcycle riders / commuters I see, my motorcycling jacket (mesh), gloves and helmet put me in the category of wearing the most gear daily.
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Old 08-21-2013, 09:04 AM   #805
MotoTex
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wraith Rider View Post

It's simple statistics, because most driving is for going to work or shopping or take your kids to school or something. Aren't these things happening where you live?
Work is 25 miles, one way.

Closest shopping is 15 miles, one way. (though there is a "convenience store" that is only 8 miles, one way, and one restaurant that is 5 miles, one way.)

No kids, but closest school is 15 miles, one way.

So, no, these things aren't happening where I live. As stated, my rides are seldom less that ten miles.

Any more questions?
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MotoTex screwed with this post 08-21-2013 at 09:13 AM
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Old 08-21-2013, 09:44 AM   #806
Boon Booni
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vertical C View Post
Too many people who know what is best for everyone else.
The ATGATT folk aren't telling anyone what's best for them. We're just saying that: the rationalization that I won't get hurt without gear because I ride slow is BS.

We're not trying to force anyone to do anything they don't want to do, but the question was "Is ATGATT over rated?" No, it's not. It will protect you in an accident/fall, whether you ride fast or slow. It's comfortable at all temps, and the "hassle" of the extra minute to put on before a ride is well worth it.

Your answer to this is to define ATGATT in a completely unobtainable way. It's pretty easy to take an argument to it's absurd limits. Just look at Wraith Rider, he's barefoot, helmetless, gloveless, no over gear what so ever, admits he's afraid to put his feet down, turn too sharp, or accelerate too quickly, or go over 45mph because it hurts his eyes, yet says he's safer and there's less risk this way than with gear. More absurdity
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Old 08-21-2013, 09:55 AM   #807
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mambo Dave View Post
+1

and there isn't any way to keep dress slacks from getting wrinkled if stowed or worn under appropriate riding pants anyway.

-------

For south Florida, of the large numbers of scooter and motorcycle riders / commuters I see, my motorcycling jacket (mesh), gloves and helmet put me in the category of wearing the most gear daily.
try rolling your slacks up rather than folding them...i used to roll my uniform pants around a rolled up towel in a plastic bag, the bag stops lint infection...viola wrinkle free at my destination....sorry you have to wear slacks at all tho...
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Old 08-21-2013, 09:57 AM   #808
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Originally Posted by Wraith Rider View Post
See, that's exactly what I'm talking about. You knew you would need some gear, so you were wearing it, and you wouldn't ride in highly dangerous environment without gear. Only I didn't need years of experience or many injuries to understand that.
that's exactly my point, if I'm not doing a track day or racing, I'm just doing a casual street ride where traffic is almost non existent

where is the big danger
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Old 08-21-2013, 10:13 AM   #809
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Originally Posted by JimVonBaden View Post
This won't end well!

Jim
Wrong, Jim. This just won't end.

ATGATT= All The Gear (I feel like wearing) At The Time.
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Old 08-21-2013, 10:16 AM   #810
Wraith Rider
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Originally Posted by MotoTex View Post
Work is 25 miles, one way.

Closest shopping is 15 miles, one way. (though there is a "convenience store" that is only 8 miles, one way, and one restaurant that is 5 miles, one way.)

No kids, but closest school is 15 miles, one way.

So, no, these things aren't happening where I live. As stated, my rides are seldom less that ten miles.

Any more questions?
So 40% of your way to work is less then 10 miles from home, 67% of your way to the shop is less then 10 miles from home, 100% of the way to the convenience store and 100% of the way to the restaurant. 67% of the way to school.
Obiously these things happen VERY MUCH where you live. Seems like the atgatt crowd isn't very good at doing the math.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boon Booni View Post
says he's safer and there's less risk this way than with gear
And reading isn't the strength of the atgatt crowd either. Why are you inventing tales?
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