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Old 08-21-2013, 04:00 PM   #826
orangebear
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MotoTex View Post
Generally, this is a correct statement. Most manufacturer's mesh offerings will fail in a crash.

One mesh gear manufacturer offers a product that was tested and found to be superior to leather (x10) in tear strength and equivalent in abrasion resistance. This is the one I chose for year-round protection.

Check out Motoport. This link is to a rather extensive article regarding materials, research, testing, and other related information about their products.

Racing suits from Motoport meet or exceed the requirements set by American and European authorities for use in competition and maintain structural integrity over time better than leather. Once leather has been wet from rain or sweat it loses strength in seams and in abrasion resistance.



Tear and Abrasion Strength by the numbers
Product / Material
Pounds of force until fabric tears
Abrasion cycles until fabric fails
CottonJeans 4.5 pounds to tear 50 cycles to failure
70 Denier Standard Nylon 4.5 pounds to tear 165 cycles to failure
500 Denier Polyester 8 pounds to tear 180 cycles to failure
200 Denier Standard Nylon 7.5 pounds to tear 275 cycles to failure
500 Denier Cordura 22 pounds to tear 710 cycles to failure
620 Denier Cordura 35 pounds to tear 1200 cycles to failure
NEW Competition Grade Leather 80-110 pounds to tear 1200-1700 cycles to failure
1000 Denier Cordura 110 pounds to tear 1780 cycles to failure
Air Mesh Kevlar 1260 pounds to tear 1800 cycles to failure
Stretch Kevlar Blend 420 pounds to tear 1800 cycles to failure

I see on your list that mesh should be the best. But I googled a mesh jacket I was going to buy and came across a forum were guys had come,off at speed and mesh did f.ck all and guy got road rash on his Side . So I got a Proper leather jacket instead as that's what the racers wear.
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Old 08-21-2013, 04:30 PM   #827
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Originally Posted by orangebear View Post
I see on your list that mesh should be the best. But I googled a mesh jacket I was going to buy and came across a forum were guys had come,off at speed and mesh did f.ck all and guy got road rash on his Side . So I got a Proper leather jacket instead as that's what the racers wear.
"Air Mesh kevlar"

That last word is important. As far as I know, motoport is the only company using that material for motorcycle gear. Did motoport make the jacket you were going to buy?
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Old 08-21-2013, 04:37 PM   #828
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Quote:
Originally Posted by infinityedge View Post
"Air Mesh kevlar"

That last word is important. As far as I know, motoport is the only company using that material for motorcycle gear. Did motoport make the jacket you were going to buy?
Aerostich tested Kevlar themselves,they dont use it in their gear as a result. Its stretches and grabs instead of sliding.
There are many ways to test things,usually when the company selling it tests it,it comes out great. I cant believe that a material designed to stop bullets,also works like or better then leather for sliding down the road.
Two very different tasks.
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Old 08-21-2013, 04:46 PM   #829
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orangebear View Post
I see on your list that mesh should be the best. But I googled a mesh jacket I was going to buy and came across a forum were guys had come,off at speed and mesh did f.ck all and guy got road rash on his Side . So I got a Proper leather jacket instead as that's what the racers wear.

I saw a similar thread, where the mesh had melted into the guys skin over a short slide. I actually owned and used the exact same jacket, a First Gear Mesh Jacket, I sold it immediately and went with motoport.

There have been a few posts in "face plant" that attest Motoport's ability to hold up in a slide.
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Old 08-21-2013, 04:48 PM   #830
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Quote:
Originally Posted by infinityedge View Post
"Air Mesh kevlar"

That last word is important. As far as I know, motoport is the only company using that material for motorcycle gear. Did motoport make the jacket you were going to buy?
I think Rukka also uses Kevlar Mesh in one of their jackets.
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Old 08-21-2013, 06:12 PM   #831
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orangebear View Post
I see on your list that mesh should be the best. But I googled a mesh jacket I was going to buy and came across a forum were guys had come,off at speed and mesh did f.ck all and guy got road rash on his Side . So I got a Proper leather jacket instead as that's what the racers wear.
All mesh is not created equal. See the first line of my post above.

This test figure is ONLY for Motoport's particular mesh weave. It was specifically engineered to provide this level of protection.

Most others may have the abrasion resistance of 500 Cordura, at best. Probably less. This is why you will find plenty of reviews of Joe Rocket and similar low-tech fashion jackets not living up to the expectations of the owner.

Show me another manufacturer who independently tests for tear and abrasion, and provides the results on their website.

Show me a forum article where a Motoport Air Mesh Kevlar came apart or shredded and you will have something I haven't seen.

BTW, Motoport will repair or replace these if you do manage to mess something up. I don't think you'll see an offer like this from the other guys.

Make sure you are comparing apples to apples before deciding on leathers. Motoport gear is more durable and will not lose some of its ability to protect after getting wet.
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MotoTex screwed with this post 08-21-2013 at 06:18 PM
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Old 08-21-2013, 06:16 PM   #832
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foot dragger View Post
Aerostich tested Kevlar themselves,they dont use it in their gear as a result. Its stretches and grabs instead of sliding.
There are many ways to test things,usually when the company selling it tests it,it comes out great. I cant believe that a material designed to stop bullets,also works like or better then leather for sliding down the road.
Two very different tasks.
Kevlar, by itself, isn't very abrasion resistant, and isn't UV resistant either. It is good at being a heat barrier and providing strength to the fabric. You can read something to that effect on the Motoport website. It is one of several fibers used in the weave, and from what I understand, it is knitted upon the inside of the fabric to keep it out of the UV.
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Old 08-21-2013, 07:02 PM   #833
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MotoTex View Post
Generally, this is a correct statement. Most manufacturer's mesh offerings will fail in a crash.


Tear and Abrasion Strength by the numbers
Product / Material
Pounds of force until fabric tears
Abrasion cycles until fabric fails
CottonJeans 4.5 pounds to tear 50 cycles to failure
70 Denier Standard Nylon 4.5 pounds to tear 165 cycles to failure
500 Denier Polyester 8 pounds to tear 180 cycles to failure
200 Denier Standard Nylon 7.5 pounds to tear 275 cycles to failure
500 Denier Cordura 22 pounds to tear 710 cycles to failure
620 Denier Cordura 35 pounds to tear 1200 cycles to failure
NEW Competition Grade Leather 80-110 pounds to tear 1200-1700 cycles to failure
1000 Denier Cordura 110 pounds to tear 1780 cycles to failure
Air Mesh Kevlar 1260 pounds to tear 1800 cycles to failure
Stretch Kevlar Blend 420 pounds to tear 1800 cycles to failure
This also shows that even the lower-grade Cordura is more durable than just wearing denim/jeans. Throw armor in that and it might even buy you a bit more protection.

Just about ANY full-coverage apparel is more protective than shorts, flip-flops, a tanktop, and a doo-rag. Kevlar and leather may be the most durable, but even basic armored Cordura offers much better protection than bare skin.
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Old 08-21-2013, 08:27 PM   #834
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Yes, folks can go read the motorport website (which I have done thouroughly as I once bought their gear), but its all hyperbole and anecdote. There is anecdotal evidence that motorport mesh can withstand a crash better than other mesh, but there are not independant tests for motorport gear that corrobarates their claims. The test your quoting is not the same as a motorcycle specific testing group testing a garment to a certain standard. Of course there are all kinds of reasons that motoport claims as to why the tests that actually certify gear are no good, but I personally find them both misleading and suspect ( as in they no their gear would fail, might as well head it off at the pass). However, many folks find the motoport mesh to be quite resistant to abrasion and would not find it hard to believe it is a good mesh product.
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Old 08-21-2013, 08:38 PM   #835
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kommando View Post
This also shows that even the lower-grade Cordura is more durable than just wearing denim/jeans. Throw armor in that and it might even buy you a bit more protection.

Just about ANY full-coverage apparel is more protective than shorts, flip-flops, a tanktop, and a doo-rag. Kevlar and leather may be the most durable, but even basic armored Cordura offers much better protection than bare skin.
the biggest issue with Cordura is that friction will make it melt and burn your skin if you don't have an undergarment
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Old 08-21-2013, 09:34 PM   #836
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If mesh was better on tarmac, wouldn't Valentino wear it? At least in Malaysia anyway
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Old 08-21-2013, 09:43 PM   #837
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If mesh was better on tarmac, wouldn't Valentino wear it?
It's a reasonable question. I imagine there's at least something in the rule book about what can and can't be worn on the track. So he couldn't just decide to wear it. He'd have to petition a rule change I bet.


Kinda like why all those bicycle rode racers have rim brakes v disk brakes. Even though disc brakes are better.

It's in the rule book.
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Old 08-21-2013, 09:48 PM   #838
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If mesh was better on tarmac, wouldn't Valentino wear it? At least in Malaysia anyway
....or maybe it's the umbrella girl lobby...
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Old 08-22-2013, 12:18 AM   #839
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Could be something in the MotoGP rules also. Maybe someone can be bothered to check.

But actually you don´t really see motorcycle road racers use anything else but leather in any series (club, national or international). I don´t think abrasion resistance is the problem with good-quality textile suits these days. Probably this has more to do with how leather can be made to fit your body perfectly, so it won´t start flapping in the wind at +300kmh (or actually you do sometimes see this happen even in MotoGP at very high speeds). And when the suit fits you very tight, this will also ensure, that its protectors won´t so easily move away from their correct positions in a crash situation.

So leather is #1 for road racing for good reasons, but the best textile suits definitely do offer good protection as well. And for road riding, especially touring, there are other things to consider, too, like having to fiddle around with a separate rain suit. I believe a well-ventilated textile suit also beats leather for riding in very hot weather.
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Old 08-22-2013, 02:14 AM   #840
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Originally Posted by Boon Booni View Post
It's a reasonable question. I imagine there's at least something in the rule book about what can and can't be worn on the track. So he couldn't just decide to wear it. He'd have to petition a rule change I bet.


Kinda like why all those bicycle rode racers have rim brakes v disk brakes. Even though disc brakes are better.

It's in the rule book.
Rim brakes arent as light so not better. That is not a good example.

I am not saying man made is not good, but its not the best.
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