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Old 08-29-2013, 06:05 AM   #1126
MotoTex
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Originally Posted by Navy Chief View Post
I thought that it was pretty common knowledge that the entire Killboy thread was tongue in cheek and intended to be fun.... Guess not....
I thought the entire "The Perfect Line and Other Riding Myths" sub group was tongue in cheek.

Including this thread.

What the hell, especially this thread.

It is an ongoing textual wrestling match between the literal trolls who are unable to fathom the world in more general terms versus conscientious folks trying to paint a more realistic picture for anyone who accidentally stumbles in expecting to find valid information.

Personally, I just don't see that many instances of so-called ATGATT folks berating those who dress in gear that is less durable. Instead I do see those latter folks trying to convince the ATGATT crowd to not wear all that gear. It is a weird dichotomy, but this is what I see.

IMHO it might be that those who don't want to wear appropriate gear because of peer pressure, financial choices, or some other safety unrelated reason feel some level of concern, guilt, etc. knowing that the ATGATT rider will fare better in any given get-off than they will. But, they want to feel good about fitting in with their crowd or avoid the hassles of gearing up for short jaunts (the ones with the highest statistical risk).

I say, whatever. Go for it. At a guess I'd say the odds are at least two to one in your favor.

But, ask yourself what is it about someone else making the choice to don appropriate gear that bugs you so much that you feel it necessary to harangue them repeatedly with absurd arguments?

Just do your thing and I'll do mine.
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Old 08-29-2013, 06:06 AM   #1127
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Originally Posted by BC Brian View Post
Maybe go back and read the original post.......page one, post 1
Okay, I have done that.. Like most discussions this has evolved over the last thousand or so posts. Interesting point though, the OP makes basically the same point in the original post as I did in my reply to you. Wear what you think is appropriate for the ride and leave everybody else the hell alone about their choices...

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Apparently I don't GET the Killboy thread either. I thought it was supposed to be a picture thread , but the lame riding dorks there have turned it into a ride critiqueing thread. Few of them have any idea what they're talking about.
It does get more than a little off topic at times, but it does serve the purpose of saving me time digging the interesting pictures up for myself... JimVonBaden made kind of an interesting point earlier on this, a lot of the comments there may very well be rooted in insecurity about their own riding skills; so they sit back and point at other people in the hopes that nobody notices them. You have to admit though that there are some spectacular examples of poor riding skills in that thread.
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Old 08-29-2013, 06:07 AM   #1128
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Originally Posted by MotoTex View Post
I thought the entire "The Perfect Line and Other Riding Myths" sub group was tongue in cheek.

Including this thread.

What the hell, especially this thread.

It is an ongoing textual wrestling match between the literal trolls who are unable to fathom the world in more general terms versus conscientious folks trying to paint a more realistic picture for anyone who accidentally stumbles in expecting to find valid information.

Personally, I just don't see that many instances of so-called ATGATT folks berating those who dress in gear that is less durable. Instead I do see those latter folks trying to convince the ATGATT crowd to not wear all that gear. It is a weird dichotomy, but this is what I see.

IMHO it might be that those who don't want to wear appropriate gear because of peer pressure, financial choices, or some other safety unrelated reason feel some level of concern, guilt, etc. knowing that the ATGATT rider will fare better in any given get-off than they will. But, they want to feel good about fitting in with their crowd or avoid the hassles of gearing up for short jaunts (the ones with the highest statistical risk).

I say, whatever. Go for it. At a guess I'd say the odds are at least two to one in your favor.

But, ask yourself what is is about someone else making the choice to don appropriate gear that bugs you so much that you feel it necessary to harangue them repeatedly with absurd arguments?

Just do your thing and I'll do mine.

Well said....
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Old 08-29-2013, 06:08 AM   #1129
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Originally Posted by joexr View Post
Apparently I don't GET the Killboy thread either. I thought it was supposed to be a picture thread , but the lame riding dorks there have turned it into a ride critiqueing thread. Few of them have any idea what they're talking about.
You mean some people actually READ that thread?

I just scroll through to see the photos.
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Old 08-29-2013, 06:09 AM   #1130
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Originally Posted by Navy Chief View Post
ATGATT is just an acronym, not a law, and not a religion...
Chief, it IS a religion and we have MANY pages to prove it
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Old 08-29-2013, 06:23 AM   #1131
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Originally Posted by MotoTex View Post
You mean some people actually READ that thread?

I just scroll through to see the photos.
I usually read the comments on the pix , not all of them. Every now and then somebody has something intelligent to say , but not very often.
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Old 08-29-2013, 06:54 AM   #1132
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Chief, it IS a religion and we have MANY pages to prove it
Maybe for some... Not I...
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Old 08-29-2013, 07:09 AM   #1133
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Originally Posted by Navy Chief View Post
How about we chage the acrynom to make you happier, there is an entire thread here http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=915389 with suggestions....

How about:
ATGAFTRATT

All The Gear Appropriate For The Ride All The Time.

Does not quite roll off the tongue the same way though....

But to me that is the spirit behind ATGATT ..

If your world is only in black and white then YMMV....
Oh come on, you're a Navy Chief, aren't you? I've never met a Chief who couldn't make an acronym roll off the tongue, and usually in a vaguely obscene sounding way.

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Old 08-29-2013, 07:23 AM   #1134
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Originally Posted by Navy Chief View Post
Maybe for some... Not I...
Well, if the definition of "Religion" is "a deeply held belief" then I do have a deeply held belief that the more durable a material I put between skin and asphalt the less skin I could lose in a get-off.

If the comment was meant more along the lines of a religious zealot, well then that isn't my style. I really don't care how much skin someone else loses, and I'm certainly the last one to go around "shoulding" on someone for their, ahem, gear-related religious beliefs.

It seems to me that a lot of riders play roles of alter-ego and they dress to express this in the way they think it best for them.

I don't give a rat's ass what I look like. I just want to ride. If I do fall down I don't want that to keep me from riding. I like to ride.

By wearing my gear I "ride to live," and therefore increase my odds that I'll also "live to ride." Which is an expression taken from another religious cult among motorcyclists, many of which talk the talk about living to ride, yet see no benefit in replacing their Johnny Depp look-alike pirate garb with something more durable.

It does look good. Very stylish. I wish my gear looked a little better, but I value function over form.

Though the "cruiser face" phenomena puzzles me somewhat.
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MotoTex screwed with this post 08-29-2013 at 07:39 AM
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Old 08-29-2013, 07:29 AM   #1135
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Originally Posted by MotoTex View Post
Well, if the definition of "Religion" is "a deeply held belief" then I do have a deeply held belief that the more durable a material I put between skin and asphalt the less skin I could lose in a get-off.

If the comment was meant more along the lines of a religious zealot, well then that isn't my style. I really don't care how much skin someone else loses, and I'm certainly the last one to go around "shoulding" on someone for their, ahem, gear-related religious beliefs.

It seems to me that a lot of riders play roles of alter-ego and they dress to expresses this in the way they think it best for them.

I don't give a rat's ass what I look like. I just want to ride. If I do fall down I don't want that to keep me from riding. I like to ride.

By wearing my gear I "ride to live," and therefore increase my odds that I'll also "live to ride." Which is an expression taken from another religious cult among motorcyclists, many of which talk the talk about living to ride, yet see no benefit in replacing their Johnny Depp look-alike pirate garb with something more durable.

It does look good. Very stylish. I wish my gear looked a little better, but I value function over form.

Though the "cruiser face" phenomena puzzles me somewhat.
I am in the same camp, I love to ride and I don't want simple injuries to keep me from riding if something happens. I don't however think that my gear is going to prevent every possible injury as has been implied on this tread (not by you), this is all about risk assessment and mitigation of possible consequences...


Cruiser face on the other hand is easy to figure out.... The guys on Sons of Anarchy don't smile so that must be how you are supposed to look when you are riding your cruiser dressed as a pirate...
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Old 08-29-2013, 08:10 AM   #1136
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Originally Posted by MotoTex View Post
In the Summer it keeps me from sunburn and dehydration
When I leave my gear at home, there's no way I could be sunburned or dehydrated. However, I accepted sunburns for lesser pleasures. (And insects aren't a problem at low speeds.)

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Originally Posted by MotoTex View Post
For the record, I vehemently will defend another's right to whatever they choose to wear when riding. I certainly do not in any way conjure that my choices should apply to anyone else. So, stop playing this as if you are being persecuted for your gear choice.

[...]

To put a question as to whether ATGATT is overrated, in and of itself indicates to me a lack of thought in bringing the question.
THAT's your way of defending another's rights? What a double-tongued snake you are.

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Originally Posted by VEGASGSA View Post
Dumbest. Argument. Ever.

You honestly think taking a deer to the handelbars/forks/face..is the same as takin one in the grill of a car..?
Dumbest argument ever.

Do you honestly think, crashing into deer at 40mph is the same as at 100mph?

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Originally Posted by Pecha72 View Post
Modern cars have advanced safety systems, crash zones, seat belts and airbags, that protect the passengers. Driving this kind of vehicle, you are already “using gear”
My bike has safety systems as well. So just by hopping on my bike, I'm "using gear" as well?

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Originally Posted by Pecha72 View Post
it´s a lot more than any motorcyclist can ever have. These two cannot be compared, because they stand on different levels regarding protection
So riding is stupid.

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Originally Posted by Navy Chief View Post
I have a question for Vertical C and Wraith Rider...

Why does this have to be judged in absolutes? Why can you not see (or choose not to see) that 99% of the self professed ATGATT riders use a sliding scale to judge the risks associated with a particular ride and make gear decisions according to how they perceive the risk. ATGATT is just an acronym, not a law, and not a religion... You two seem to be the only ones on this entire thread that only see this in black and white, and make completely absurd arguments to attempt to justify your gear choices.
The key is: I'm NOT judging in absolutes. The atgatt guys do. ATGATT, per definition, means NOT making gear decisions according to how you perceive the risk. It's ALL the gear ALL the time, no matter what. I am ADVOCATING to use a sliding scale to judge the risks.

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Bottom line is we all make a conscious choice to take risks any time we throw a leg over a motorcycle and push the ignition. How we choose to mitigate those risks is a personal choice, nobody needs to be judging anybody for their decisions. I could care less if you ride naked down the Autobahn, or across the outback, why do you care what I wear?
It's the other way round. You guys are judging, while we are just fine no matter what you wear.

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Originally Posted by MotoTex View Post
Personally, I just don't see that many instances of so-called ATGATT folks berating those who dress in gear that is less durable. Instead I do see those latter folks trying to convince the ATGATT crowd to not wear all that gear. It is a weird dichotomy, but this is what I see.
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Old 08-29-2013, 08:39 AM   #1137
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Originally Posted by Wraith Rider View Post
Do you honestly think, crashing into deer at 40mph is the same as at 100mph?
1. No one ever said anything remotely to this point. You are entitled to your own opinion..not your own facts..

2. Are you talking about a car? Or a motorcycle?

3. Car, probably very little..alot of variables..little back east Whitetail, big western Muley..as the car goes faster, the energy it carries increases..on impact that is what will determine if the deer is hit..hit and inserted in grill.hit and thrown over car...etc...and too..you have 4-5 feet of stuff in front of you, an A pillar and a sheet of safety glass to help absorb and dissipate all the energy from the deer

4. Motorcycle..the same laws of physics apply..your energy increases as well..but I can tell you..at 40 or 100..you cannot catch a deer in your arms and not be taken off the motorcycle..when you roll off..your head will be the first thing to make contact with the road..you have zero chance of staying in control of the bike and the only structure you have to absorb energy is some fairing and the headlight..
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Old 08-29-2013, 08:44 AM   #1138
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Originally Posted by Wraith Rider View Post
My bike has safety systems as well. So just by hopping on my bike, I'm "using gear" as well?




Quote:
Originally Posted by Wraith Rider
So riding is stupid.
If you are riding this..maybe..otherwise..you may be trying to argue thatABS on a bike is the same as modern car safety systems..(Something I don't agree with actually)

Sorry..big pic..
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Old 08-29-2013, 08:48 AM   #1139
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Is it funny that this is exactly what I envisioned WR riding?



Not that there's anything wrong with that ...
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Old 08-29-2013, 09:00 AM   #1140
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Originally Posted by MotoTex View Post
For the record, I vehemently will defend another's right to whatever they choose to wear when riding. I certainly do not in any way conjure that my choices should apply to anyone else. So, stop playing this as if you are being persecuted for your gear choice.

To put a question as to whether ATGATT is overrated, in and of itself indicates to me a lack of thought in bringing the question.
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THAT's your way of defending another's rights? What a double-tongued snake you are...
Nothing double tongued about it. One can easily defend another's right to be an idiot, and still tell that other "You sir, are an idiot!" It used to be a basic understanding of how free speach works in the US. Now, everyone gets all butt hurt if anyone suggests their ideas are dumb.

Basically, you are entitled to your opinion. You are not entitled to having other people respect it as a sound one, if you cannot defend it logically.

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