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Old 09-04-2013, 03:37 PM   #1321
blk-betty OP
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1322 posts and we are right back to square one, wherein I as the OP, asked the original question....

Quote:
Originally Posted by blk-betty View Post
How many of you guys wear ALL the gear EVERY SINGLE TIME you ride a bike, and if you don't wear ALL the gear EVERY SINGLE TIME why not?

There was a time when words had defined meanings. Apparently, according to some, ALL no longer means ALL whether referring to the gear worn or to the time riding.

So let's all forget about the intevening 1320 posts and address the original question that I asked.

No one is claiming that gear doesn't reduce potential injuries in the event of a crash and no one is claiming that gear doesn't add some level of comfort based on riding conditions.

Are there times when you ride but don't wear all of your essential protective gear and what reasoning does one use when deciding not to wear all of their gear?
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Old 09-04-2013, 03:41 PM   #1322
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blk-betty View Post

Are there times when you ride but don't wear all of your essential protective gear and what reasoning does one use when deciding not to wear all of their gear?
I always wear all my gear. I don't feel there is any good reason not to.



... even when headed out to the garage just to hug the beast.



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Old 09-04-2013, 03:47 PM   #1323
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I dress for the crash. . ...





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Old 09-04-2013, 04:24 PM   #1324
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blk-betty View Post
There was a time when words had defined meanings.
Really? When was this "time when words had defined meanings" exactly? Who enforced this in the minds that create the meanings for the words they use?

Throughout my life I have seen little except constant change in the meanings people have for words. Throughout history this has always been the norm, language evolves and meanings change subtly or drastically.

Ask three people to imagine a dog and you will get three different meanings. One might be a Chihuahua, another might be a Lab, another might be a Coney Island dog with relish and mustard. Which one is right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by blk-betty View Post
Apparently, according to some, ALL no longer means ALL whether referring to the gear worn or to the time riding.
Yes, and when you tell someone you are going to run to the store to get some brewskies, you put on running shoes and take off at a trot, do you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by blk-betty View Post
So let's all forget about the intevening 1320 posts and address the original question that I asked.

No one is claiming that gear doesn't reduce potential injuries in the event of a crash and no one is claiming that gear doesn't add some level of comfort based on riding conditions.

Are there times when you ride but don't wear all of your essential protective gear and what reasoning does one use when deciding not to wear all of their gear?
If you have the flexibility to accept that there may be exceptions, such as moving a bike in a parking lot to where your buddies are parked at the cafe, or, short runs under a quarter mile in length while performing maintenance, etc., then, I would answer that if I am riding the motorcycle I will have helmet, gloves, boots, armored jacket and pants, good tires, and a prepared motorcycle all the time, other than a few brief and extremely low risk exceptions.

If you went so far as to ask what percentage of miles a person rides with ATGATT, that might be easier to answer in a literal sense. My answer to that one would be in the neighborhood of 99.9%. (Edit: I did a little math exercise. Over the 30K miles in the past two years I've ridden maybe five miles total without all my gear. The percentage would be closer to 99.999% based on that calculation. Still, not literally ALL the time. But, pretty close, wouldn't you agree?)

Frankly, I think you posed the original question the way you did in an attempt to show that nobody literally wears ATGATT, perhaps so you can feel better about not wearing some of your gear all the time.

Whatever. Do what you want if that is the case. Have you not found an answer in the posts in this thread?

What about the poll currently running that indicates roughly 85% of those voting are in the three categories most representing the "attitude" of ATGATT, as voted on in the poll? Does that help answer the original question?

People have answered your question to the best of their ability and gone off on many a tangent as to the reasons behind their choices.

If these answers aren't the ones you are looking for, perhaps you might consider asking the question differently.

Not sure what it is that you find so disappointing about it.

It is a fine thread for folks to share their opinions in, and I appreciate you starting it.
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Old 09-04-2013, 04:27 PM   #1325
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Quote:
Originally Posted by O.C.F.RIDER View Post
To be sure, the injuries could have been much worse, but as it is, 2 1/2 months later I still have about a half-dollar size piece of drooling, oozing, sometimes still bleeding, chunk that's trying to reunite with the rest of my skin. With proper gear, that most likely wouldn't be the case. I may have still gotten burned through leather's, but I wouldn't be missing lots of meat.
Also, there's a certain "art" to keeping one's self from being broken up worse that's learned through road-racing crashes. You learn, well it becomes reflex, to keep your limbs tucked in tight as you can. Less flailing about of those bits usually means less pins, plates, and such.
All that, PLUS, luck was very much on my side. Never discount plain ol' luck.

CW
Have you seen a doctor about this remaining wound? After this much time, it sounds like you may need a skin graft to close and allow the area to finish healing.
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Old 09-04-2013, 04:44 PM   #1326
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Originally Posted by NoVa Rider View Post
I dress for the crash. . ...


Now THAT is just plain silly.
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Old 09-04-2013, 05:03 PM   #1327
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MotoTex, I enjoy your writing on this subject.

I am curious - are you retired?

You put a lot of time and effort into your posts.
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Old 09-04-2013, 05:55 PM   #1328
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blk-betty View Post
1322 posts and we are right back to square one, wherein I as the OP, asked the original question....



There was a time when words had defined meanings. Apparently, according to some, ALL no longer means ALL whether referring to the gear worn or to the time riding.

So let's all forget about the intevening 1320 posts and address the original question that I asked.
Define all for us oh great OP!

Quote:

No one is claiming that gear doesn't reduce potential injuries in the event of a crash and no one is claiming that gear doesn't add some level of comfort based on riding conditions.
Oh, so you read none of WR and VC's posts?

Quote:
Are there times when you ride but don't wear all of your essential protective gear and what reasoning does one use when deciding not to wear all of their gear?
That has been addressed numerous times, but apparently your tolling need has not yet been satisfied.

Jim
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Old 09-04-2013, 06:05 PM   #1329
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oca View Post
MotoTex, I enjoy your writing on this subject.

I am curious - are you retired?

You put a lot of time and effort into your posts.
I wish I were. Probably never will be. But as an IT admin/System Analyst I often have some idle time to spare between routine maintenance and emergencies.

Another hat I wear at work is technical writing. I have developed the habit to choose my words purposefully, this way the install instructions written for the company's products produce the least amount of calls for the support folks. (I used to do support too)

Thanks for the feedback.
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Old 09-04-2013, 07:12 PM   #1330
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MotoTex View Post
What about the poll currently running that indicates roughly 85% of those voting are in the three categories most representing the "attitude" of ATGATT, as voted on in the poll? Does that help answer the original question?
Thanks for directing me to the poll thread. I really haven't been reading the other threads on this topic.


As "I" interpret the poll, a little less than 50% are ATGATT. Most does not equal All in "my" world, attitude not withstanding but yes a dog may be a Chihuahua, a Lab, or Coney Island dog.


Thanks again to all that contributed, my questions have been answered and I'm signing off of this thread.
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Old 09-04-2013, 08:08 PM   #1331
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MotoTex View Post
Ask three people to imagine a dog and you will get three different meanings. One might be a Chihuahua, another might be a Lab, another might be a Coney Island dog with relish and mustard. Which one is right?
Surely not the one who imagines a horse. Or does this definition just change from day to day?
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Old 09-04-2013, 08:16 PM   #1332
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Hey, anyone seen these two photos of Sarah Jessica Parker?
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Old 09-04-2013, 08:18 PM   #1333
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For the sake of defining things, here's the MSF version of "All The Gear" from ten years ago when I taught. This is what was required for the students to be allowed to ride during the course.

Helmet
Eye Protection (face shield or protective eye wear)
Jacket (or long sleeve shirt of heavy material)
Gloves (full finger)
Long pants of a durable material. (jeans yes, no polyester slacks)
Boots that cover the ankles.

This is the lowest common denominator for "All The Gear" as established by a well-known motorcycle-specific safety foundation.

Things like riding pants, armor, Leat braces, airbag jackets, etc. are all above and beyond what the MSF considers the minimum requirement. We can consider these, in addition to the defined standard, to be ATG+.

Now that we have established a definition for "All The Gear" to work with, who meets this minimum standard when they "go somewhere" on the bike? (thus defining the "All The Time" aspect a little more clearly)

See how easy that was.

Now we are asking folks whether or not they wear a specifically defined set of gear, or better, when they go somewhere on the bike. Or not.

I'm ATG+ all the time.

Next.
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Old 09-04-2013, 08:37 PM   #1334
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THIS IS WHAT THE OP IS ASKING

You don't need to go off on any other tangent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blk-betty View Post

Are there times when you ride but don't wear all of your essential protective gear and what reasoning does one use when deciding not to wear all of their gear?
My answer to this is (for the last year at least).

I always wear full leathers, full face boots, gloves on my ZX6. I only ride this for day rides. I wear this because I ride this bike closer to the edge making the risk of crashing higher. I ride with less gaps, at a higher differential speed etc.

I wear kevlar jeans short boots gloves and a jacket on my Honda Shadow. This is a cruiser and I ride it as such. It quickly gets out of sorts at high speed corners. To mitigate the risk of crashing I will slow down to 40kmh when faced with a car that might turn across my path.

On my scooter I wear an open face and gloves around town and that is it, it is winter at moment so I am wearing jeans and a street jacket as well (probably be down to a tshirt and boardies in summer). It is only just for buzzing over to the shops, I will avoid 60kmh roads and will take the backstreets where traffic travels at 40kmh. I ride probably 5kmh below that as that is the lowest I can go without having cars overtake me which increases risk. At that speed on that scoot (which weighs less than me) is easy to control and will stop quicker than my motorbikes and is easier to swerve or just bail. I have fallen off pushbikes at a faster speed than that. The convenience of less gear is the reason.

Is a crash still possible on the scoot, yes, but it is somewhere similar to the risk that I could get killed if I walked down to the shops instead. Cars could cross to my side to take me out for no reason but they jump off the road and kill peds on the footpath all the time. You have to look at the likelihood of something happening as well.
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Old 09-04-2013, 11:51 PM   #1335
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MotoTex View Post
long sleeve shirt of heavy material
[...]
jeans
Never would have thought this could be called "gear" in any way.
Not sure what I should think of MSF now that I know that...
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