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Old 04-07-2012, 04:48 AM   #121
Ritalin Boy
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Originally Posted by Xtremjeepn View Post
There is an important piece of this story that is missing!

"Back in the day", "gear" was rare, expensive and hard to get.

There were very few choices, most of it leather, and most of it very uncomfortable and expensive.

Even good motorcross gear was not available at every corner mortorcycle shop and of course there was no Internet to order from. I honestly did not even know some of this 70s gear existed until seeing it on the Internet years later!

The "gear" back than really could make the riding experience much less fun!

Today there is so much more gear to be had at reasonable prices that there should be little excuse to having it.

Its very easy today to have gear for every occasion and type of riding you plan to do that day. Sure you may not have the "perfect" gear for the best protection in all situations, but there is really no excuse to not have the most reasonable combo for that moment.

Hot? There are full mesh jackets and pants, fully vented textiles, etc etc. Even pants that zip into shorts for when you get off the bike. Low top riding shoes, boots, etc.

Don't want to look like a storm trooper? Kevlar lined jeans, plain looking boots, etc!

There are also so many people looking to get rid of good used gear that there really is no excuse for not having and using it.
Well said. I'd also say if you purchase quality gear you can over time build up a nice collection of different types of good gear. It's nice to have a choice of leather, textile, light, strong etc.

OP's question, is ATGATT overrated? No but like many other things the disciples over preach.

Here's my collection, there's a second rack to the right with Chace's gear.

The high viz roadcrafter is the seventh one they made, circa 1999. It's never been crashed in but it's been back to Deluth
for service twice. I'm about to take it to the local guy for a new zipper. The zipper car broke off fall of 10 and I was too lazy to get it dealt with.

My choice is to always have a minimum of over the ankle boots, gloves, helmet and good jacket with jeans or other heavy pants. Once in a while I'll ride this way to the store for whatever or down the road from the office for lunch. I really do prefer the roadcrafter for short jaunts, it goes on so fast and works so well it's about as difficult to use as the seat belt in my cage.

I see what you wear as a personal choice and I don't believe in helmet laws. Over the last 15 years I might have a total of 10 miles of riding sans lid. (excluding campgrounds and rally sites)
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Old 04-07-2012, 05:20 AM   #122
Dirty Hippie
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I used to wear zero gear. I have ridden since age 3 and had an off at 18 (my only street crash to date), where I lost a lot of skin. I still didn't get any gear, nor did any of my friends. Gear when I was a little kid on the dirt meant maybe a helmet, and maybe gloves. Maybe not. During the high school years in Texas, we had a kid in our group that had a Hein Gerrick leather jacket, but the rest of us wore whatever coat we owned if it was cold, and none otherwise. Helmets were required by law, so we usually wore those. Shorts and tanktops for the summer.

Later, in Colorado, I bought a textile jacket for riding in the winter. Ya know what? It was really nice. Cheap ass Cortech jacket, but it was motorcycle specific and very comfy on the bike. I started trying out more gear and found that I could be warmer when it's cold, cooler when it's hot, and not have some denim digging into my shit. If you have never had a proper fitting pair of motorcycle pants, then you are missing out. At first I didn't like being shielded from the wind, but as rocks bounce off my sleeve instead of bruising my arm, I realized there are trade offs.

Now? Fuck. I love my gear. I wear it all, all the time. I am in a cocoon and I like it like that. I can devote that much more concentration to the road and the next corner. Total focus. I love it. YMMV. I see people riding, squinting as gravel flies past their sunglasses, getting hit with shit and bugs flying through the air, getting sunburned and looking miserable. I guess I used to be like them, but it's hard to remember why I thought that was better.

In my opinion, helmets that don't protect the face are a "why bother?" kinda thing for me. Also, those dudes wearing a heavy leather jacket with no lid and no gloves when it's 90 outside? WTF is that? How miserable to be sweating your ass off in a heavy jacket and leave your skull and your fucking hands totally unprotected. But hey, nice jacket dude.
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Old 04-07-2012, 06:26 AM   #123
Ritalin Boy
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Originally Posted by Sumo64c View Post
Not trolling the dark side angle, I do run it because of the run flat, however it's not ATGATT related. My bad.
Well then that makes the car tire a great choice.

It's probably a good idea to go ATATT if you're going to be so cavalier with your choice of equipment.
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Old 04-07-2012, 06:29 AM   #124
Ritalin Boy
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Originally Posted by blk-betty View Post
Thanks Jim.

BTW, I work in health care and often see catastrophic spinal cord injury patients. Given the choice I'd choose death.
Do you have a cyanide capsule sewn into your cheek?

If I were you I'd be doing everything I can to prevent such an injury. IMO good gear is the first place to start followed up by continued training.
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Old 04-07-2012, 07:55 AM   #125
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I was a most-of-the-time-guy, and minimalist-for-quick-errands guy until I took a long lowside slide slide through an intersection 100 yards from my house. Happened to be atgatt that day, but had previously ridden that same route numerous times without it. Got away with only some embarassment and horrified looks from soccer moms. Would have some nice road rash scars if I had been in shorts and a T-shirt. Short trips, hop in the truck. Not like you are saving gas over that distance anyways. I do need to get better about wearing boots on my commute though. Once you get a routine down, I can doff and don my gear in about a minute for commuting. The bike needs to warm up a little anyways....
'12 Sertao, '00 KDX220R '12 Tenere, '04 Tiger, '09 WRR, '06 DRZ, '06 TW, '01 250 EXC, '09 KLR
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Old 04-07-2012, 08:21 AM   #126
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Originally Posted by wmax351 View Post
Aggressiveness is a big issue. The way I look at it is

What is fun on a sport bike?: Seeing how fast you can go, or how quick you can take turns.

What is fun on a cruiser?: Making noise. Looking cool. Riding in straight lines, comfortably, with noise and vibration.

What is fun on a touring bike (and I include "cruisers" here when they are used for touring)?: Seeing and going places. Often on empty roads with few cars.

Which of these are dangerous? Anything where you push limits, sometimes you will go past them.
If a car pulls out in front of you, or you hit black ice, it doesn't really matter what you are riding, or how agressive you are riding, the consequences are the same. Gear makes the difference.

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Old 04-07-2012, 08:45 AM   #127
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To the OP - Yes, every time, no exceptions. YMMV
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Old 04-07-2012, 09:21 AM   #128
Ritalin Boy
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Originally Posted by blk-betty View Post
I have no reason to think you or anyone else is lying but I ask the question because of situations like this scenario......It's summer time, I'm lounging around in shorts, T-shirt and flip-flops (which is my standard off-work uniform) with some friends getting ready to grill some meat and just found out I need one ot two items from the store which is literally two miles down the road and the first 3/4 mile is a residential neighborhood - speed limit 20.

I can:

a) hop on the HD as dressed and get back just as quickly as the car but riding the bike is more fun

b) kick off the flip flops, throw on some shoes, grab the helmet and take the DR

c) kick off the flip-flops, drop the shorts, put on jeans, jacket, gloves, full-face and take either bike

d) take the car

What I do and in what order.....a, d, b then c.

To me, for just running a quick errand, it's not worth the effort to change clothes and put on protective gear for a very short ride even though I KNOW the risks are pretty much the same as a long ride.

I have an option of taking a car many don't have that option. So in my scenario, your at your house with all your gear wherever you store it, kicking back with friends in shorts, t-shirt and you still don full gear for a quick store run or maybe just long pants, shoes and a helmet or do you take the car knowing its not safe to ride without all the gear?
I change the flops for some over the ankle shoes (merrills for ex) my roadcrafter, gloves and a helmet. The longest part of the exchange is changing the flops for shoes.

As it's hot I'll take the naked bike, have all the vents open and be quite happy.

The scenario you described is one of the most dangerous, no T-Clock, no ride prep and no worries, or the old saw most accidents happen within five miles of home.

Why play the odds?
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Old 04-07-2012, 09:35 AM   #129
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My mindset comes from my age I think- to me geared up means leather jacket, pants, gloves, helmet and some kind of eye protection, and leather boots. I dont do armor, pressure suits of the like, and I am apt to skip the leather lowers riding in town.

OTOH I cant help but thinking "WTF" when people where shorts, open toed shoes tank tops and the like.

also check sig below
Originally Posted by Celtic Curmudgeon View Post
ATGATT...News flash - the only people who get any action dressed up like astronauts.....are actual astronauts.
Rule number one kid is don't be a dumbass like your old man
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Old 04-07-2012, 09:44 AM   #130
Tucson Jim
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I've done both. Lately I feel naked without over the ankle boots, heavy pants, armor jacket and helmet. I don't use a grinder without a face shield, or weld without long sleeves and helmet, nor do I ride in a car without a seatbelt, why take the risk?

Gear can make the difference between a hospital stay or a walk away.

IIRC Gary Busey hit a curb with his head on a slow turn slide/get off in town. Look how nuts he is now.
Tucson Jim

The only decision you have to make is what to do with the time you have been given

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Old 04-07-2012, 09:57 AM   #131
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Literally the first time I decided to wear the heavy riding boots for my commute to work -- after numerous times in just shoes -- I put the bike down hard. I remember a few days earlier having a chat with a riding buddy about commuting in boots and the thought of a broken ankle . The boots saved my feet. I ground a hole through my textile jacket (including the elbow armor!), ground the knuckles off my gloves and scratched my helmet badly. The boots scuffed, but saved my feet.

I'm boots, jacket, helmet and gloves if the bike wheels out of the garage at all.

The scars on my elbow and knee remind me the importance of quality gear.
Current: 2012 Triumph Street Triple R, 2013 KTM Duke690

1999 Honda VFR800i, 2003 Suzuki SV1000 N,
2003 R1150 GS,2004 Triumph Speed Triple (wrecked), 2001 Triumph Sprint ST, 2003 Suzuki SV650, 1984 R80 ST , 1973 CB750
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Old 04-07-2012, 10:09 AM   #132
high dangler
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been riding for for 40 years but have been riding fully geared for the last ten.
The value of the gear was proven to me when I crashed at high speed in on the racetrack . Nowdays I just ride better with it on.
Its one disipline I impose on myself and i just ride so much better covered 100%
I really dont care what somebody else wears but I wouldnt care to ride with people that are uncovered . I hate the sight of blood.
If you fall off your bike and loose a bunch of skin and meat just dont come crying.
rompin stompin tiger 800 XC rider
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Old 04-07-2012, 10:13 AM   #133
Boon Booni
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Originally Posted by blk-betty View Post
Smart man and not arguing with that logic but it begs the question........, if you don't feel comfortable riding the bike because you've had "at least a beer" should you be driving the car?
It's a point for sure, and as I age I'm trying to avoid driving after drinking at all, but if I have to get somewhere after a few beers, it's in the car.
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Old 04-07-2012, 10:54 AM   #134
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Originally Posted by Kommando View Post
Nobody said anything about lying, but I have a few questions...

Do you always wear a neck brace, like LEATT?

Do you wear an airbag vest/jacket?

Do you wear a chest/thorax protector?

Do you wear wristguards?

Would your "gear" be adequate for a trackday?

Would your "gear" be adequate for a supercross/motocross/enduro/rally race?
1. No, the reduced visibility is more dangerous for me on a day to day basis. I have been thinking really hard about getting an airbag vest when funds allow though.
2. See above
3. I stick to full race gauntlets when I get on the bike, all my gloves have integrated wrist support and armor.
4. Probably not, gloves, boots and helmet? yes. However most race sponsors feel the majority of textile gear is inadequate for the speeds involved. I've yet to see conclusive proof that all textile gear is inferior to leather. I would guess that the largest contributing factor to this attitude is that not all textile gear is made equally and sorting out which is and isn't adequate would be too much trouble and possibly involve too much liability.
5. Don't know, I'm not familar with those requirements.

After a lot of research, I came to the conclusion that high denier textiles with CE1 or CE2 armor in common joint impact zones (knees, hips, elbows, shoulders, spine), m/c specific boots with ankle protection (not necessary MX boots. I go a lot of places that require walking around. I've been planning on replacing my current boots with some Aerostitch Combat touring boots) full gauntlet, armored gloves (my hands are important to me!) and a ECE rated FF or modular helmet is adequate for my daily needs (no car).
Lately I have been thinking about supplementing that with an airbag jacket and possibly some of the T-Pro Forcefield stuff for playing in the hills, dirt and under race leathers if I do a track day.
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Old 04-07-2012, 11:33 AM   #135
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its a personal choice really- for me it was just an addiction to gear- had all different helmets and then I was literally .25 miles from home, thats yards away, and a lady made a non yielding left in front of me that sent me across the concrete- had the arai full face and leather jacket and gloves and all took a huge hit and rub- so now it makes sense to me- would not have before I suppose
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