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Old 09-05-2013, 02:02 AM   #1336
omeoxlv
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Originally Posted by blk-betty View Post
1322 posts and we are right back to square one, wherein I as the OP, asked the original question....



There was a time when words had defined meanings. Apparently, according to some, ALL no longer means ALL whether referring to the gear worn or to the time riding.

So let's all forget about the intevening 1320 posts and address the original question that I asked.

No one is claiming that gear doesn't reduce potential injuries in the event of a crash and no one is claiming that gear doesn't add some level of comfort based on riding conditions.



Are there times when you ride but don't wear all of your essential protective gear and what reasoning does one use when deciding not to wear all of their gear?
Never with bare arms legs or feet but occasionally a quick "test" run for one purpose or another with just ordinary clothes.
What this shows up is what a shame it is that we cant be "magically" protected somehow. I say this because the extra feeling that thin clothing gives is just brilliant when clamping the bike between the legs through some twisties!!
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Old 09-05-2013, 04:58 AM   #1337
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Originally Posted by MMasz View Post
Have you seen a doctor about this remaining wound? After this much time, it sounds like you may need a skin graft to close and allow the area to finish healing.
I never knew you cared.
But on a more serious note, it's oozing less goo all the time, so it is getting better. Taking fucking forever, but getting better.
Would I have been better off seeking some medical attention at least somewhere along the line? Yeah, I guess, as I didn't ever go to the hospital or even a doctor following the crash. Just wash it out and make sure I don't get any of my St. Bernards slobber in it! The slobber was/is the tough part because that shit flies in directions and ways that defy all laws of physics.
And at least I used my head for once and stayed off the dirt bike (still off), until this thing is closed up tight so I don't get any sort of weird bacteria from a mudhole in it.

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Old 09-05-2013, 06:04 AM   #1338
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Originally Posted by Vertical C View Post
THIS IS WHAT THE OP IS ASKING
Well no, actually.

Do they have dictionaries in Oz?
Definition of TANGENT

1 a : meeting a curve or surface in a single point if a sufficiently small interval is considered tangent to a curve>
b (1) : having a common tangent line at a point <tangent curves> (2) : having a common tangent plane at a point <tangent surfaces>

2: diverging from an original purpose or course : irrelevant

The OP never clearly defined what "essential" gear was for this thread. He left this up to the readers.

What sent the thread off on tangents was the absence of a clear definition. There was no hard baseline established to measure against.

Twits like you and WR have your own idea of what this meant (and believe everyone should think like you), while power rangers have their idea of what this meant, and safety bandana pirates have their idea of what this meant, and squids aren't even reading this thread because they are watching videos on YouTube of each other being squidly.

Once there has been defined the criteria from where everyone can now measure, that is hardly a tangent. Defining ATGATT for this thread is actually narrowing the focus, quite the opposite of a tangent.

If by chance you forgot to mention Helmet use for riding the ZX6 and Cruiser, your description would be ATG, leaning toward ATG+ on the motorcycles.

If the absence of helmet was a conscious omission for all but the scooter, that would be a NO, I don't wear ATG all the time.

On the scooter, definitely a NO, not ATGATT.

See how this works?
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Old 09-05-2013, 08:46 AM   #1339
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Originally Posted by MotoTex View Post

Twits like you and WR have your own idea of what this meant (and believe everyone should think like you), while power rangers have their idea of what this meant, and safety bandana pirates have their idea of what this meant, and squids aren't even reading this thread because they are watching videos on YouTube of each other being squidly.

Once there has been defined the criteria from where everyone can now measure, that is hardly a tangent. Defining ATGATT for this thread is actually narrowing the focus, quite the opposite of a tangent.
I always thought everyone could agree to covering all parts of your body (maybe with the exception of the neck) with motorcycle specific gear is "atg".and moving a two-wheeler with the power of it's engine is "the time".
Now that you told us, jeans and long sleeved shirts are enough and that the time is only "going somewhere", I can state I'm atgatt as well (fuelling up or running some errands isn't going somewhere for me).

However... knowing how "much" jeans and shirt help in a crash... it would feel like self-deception to me and I would ask myself if the term "atgatt" is worth the digital paper it's written on.

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Old 09-05-2013, 10:24 PM   #1340
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[QUOTE=MotoTex;22258812]diverging from an original purpose or course : irrelevant

A good example was: highside on a motorcycle (in the context of getting injured by your own vehicle and with the impact to the ground). He first claimed, that a highside can only happen on the racetrack, but then when several people pointed out, that it can happen just about anywhere, then out of the blue, he was talking about his scooter, not a motorcycle. Classic ´when you run out of excuses, quietly change the subject´ - type of move.
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Old 09-06-2013, 02:55 AM   #1341
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[QUOTE=Pecha72;22265508]
Quote:
Originally Posted by MotoTex View Post
diverging from an original purpose or course : irrelevant

A good example was: highside on a motorcycle (in the context of getting injured by your own vehicle and with the impact to the ground). He first claimed, that a highside can only happen on the racetrack, but then when several people pointed out, that it can happen just about anywhere, then out of the blue, he was talking about his scooter, not a motorcycle. Classic ´when you run out of excuses, quietly change the subject´ - type of move.
Did you read my post above where i only non atgatt on my scoot. So highsides on a scoot is relevant,
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Old 09-06-2013, 05:12 AM   #1342
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[QUOTE=Vertical C;22265936]
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Originally Posted by Pecha72 View Post

Did you read my post above where i only non atgatt on my scoot. So highsides on a scoot is relevant,
Originally you claimed, that it´s unheard of to highside on a motorcycle outside the racetrack. Then you were asked to make a reality check, and this resulted in you suddenly claiming, that you were talking about your scooter all the time. Those posts are here, about 1000 responses ago.

Even if you weren´t able to highside, you can always lowside, and get your foot badly trapped under your own vehicle. This can happen on any two-wheeler, and it´s a prime example of a crash, where wearing protection can make a big difference in the outcome (some bruising vs. getting a little sunshine to your bones).
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Old 09-06-2013, 05:17 AM   #1343
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"Even if you weren´t able to highside, you can always lowside, and get your foot badly trapped under your own vehicle. This can happen on any two-wheeler, and it´s a prime example of a crash, where wearing protection can make a big difference in the outcome (some bruising vs. getting a little sunshine to your bones). "

My brother just rode his bike for the first time in 71 days (he's been counting) due to a low speed fall in a gas station parking lot.... He was wearing Chuck Taylor "riding boots" Broke his tibia and fibule, tore ligaments in his ankle etc. Probably woulda been sore for a few days if he were wearing proper boots.
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Old 09-06-2013, 06:08 AM   #1344
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[QUOTE=Pecha72;22266398]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vertical C View Post

Originally you claimed, that it´s unheard of to highside on a motorcycle outside the racetrack. Then you were asked to make a reality check, and this resulted in you suddenly claiming, that you were talking about your scooter all the time. Those posts are here, about 1000 responses ago.

Even if you weren´t able to highside, you can always lowside, and get your foot badly trapped under your own vehicle. This can happen on any two-wheeler, and it´s a prime example of a crash, where wearing protection can make a big difference in the outcome (some bruising vs. getting a little sunshine to your bones).


Well I was, because that is what I ride nogatt on. I was talking about my situation. You guys were talking about highsiding when wearing no gear, I wear no gear on my scooter so that is what I talked about.


Its a step through. Have you actually even owned a scooter?


I still think that the likelihood of highside on any bike is so low you really have to be dumb to change your behaviour for it. A meteor might hit the earth tomorrow as well so you shouldnt wear atgatt for that reason because why waste your last minutes on earth gearing up when you could be riding. You know whilst we are making stupid improbable points about shit that aint gunna happen.
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Old 09-06-2013, 06:13 AM   #1345
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Riding gear (even though it is not guaranteed to keep you alive, or healthy, as has been rightfully pointed out many times) has one unique feature regarding safety: it CAN help you, when all other safety measures have failed.

And to think you can tell, when is a high probability, and when is a low probability for accident, that is simply naive. Your own actions naturally have a lot to do with your personal safety level (=go too fast to your skills, and you´re an accident waiting to happen). But there are other risk factors, that are totally disconnected from your own actions. To put it very short: you cannot control everything. You can make your riding very safe, if you´re a smart rider, but situations, road conditions, and many many other variables will still change every second. So you can still get in an accident, and you cannot predict the exact moment, when this might happen. It´s really as simple as that. Some people mix good luck and good judgment, but they are two very different things.

But it´s your body, your health, your life, so yes, by all means: choose to wear gear, or choose not to wear it.

Pecha72 screwed with this post 09-06-2013 at 06:24 AM
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Old 09-06-2013, 06:17 AM   #1346
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[QUOTE=Vertical C;22266663]
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Originally Posted by Pecha72 View Post
Its a step through. Have you actually even owned a scooter?
Yes, I´ve owned several scooters, all in Southeast Asia. Owned and ridden them aplenty in Thailand, Cambodia, Laos, Malaysia, Indonesia. Those are actually really good places to enhance your traffic survival strategies, because otherwise you will not survive. I used to spend all my winters there.
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Old 09-06-2013, 06:25 AM   #1347
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[QUOTE=Pecha72;22266725]
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Originally Posted by Vertical C View Post

Yes, I´ve owned several scooters, all in Southeast Asia. Owned and ridden them aplenty in Thailand, Cambodia, Laos, Malaysia, Indonesia. Those are actually really good places to enhance your traffic survival strategies, because otherwise you will not survive. I used to spend all my winters there.
Did it take your leg off in a crash?
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Old 09-06-2013, 06:26 AM   #1348
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Originally Posted by Pecha72 View Post
Riding gear (even though it is not guaranteed to keep you alive, or healthy, as has been rightfully pointed out many times) has one unique feature regarding safety: it CAN help you, when all other safety measures have failed.

And to think you can tell, when is a high probability, and when is a low probability for accident, that is simply naive. Your own actions naturally have a lot to do with your personal safety level (=go too fast to your skills, and you´re an accident waiting to happen). But there are other risk factors, that are totally disconnected from your own actions. To put it very short: you cannot control everything. You can make your riding very safe, if you´re a smart rider, but situations, road conditions, and many many other variables will still change every second. So you can still get in an accident, and you cannot predict the exact moment, when this might happen. It´s really as simple as that. Some people mix good luck and good judgment, but they are two very different things.

But it´s your body, your health, your life, so yes, by all means: choose to wear gear, or choose not to wear it.
If you cant control it why do some riders crash more than others? Some go decades without crashing.

Anyway, No one ever said you can control every possible situation,just that you can get the risk down to a level that the risk is negligible, like walking or riding a bicycle where you wouldnt wear gear either.
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Old 09-06-2013, 06:41 AM   #1349
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Originally Posted by Vertical C View Post
Well I was, because that is what I ride nogatt on. I was talking about my situation. You guys were talking about highsiding when wearing no gear, I wear no gear on my scooter so that is what I talked about.

Its a step through. Have you actually even owned a scooter?

I still think that the likelihood of highside on any bike is so low you really have to be dumb to change your behaviour for it. A meteor might hit the earth tomorrow as well so you shouldnt wear atgatt for that reason because why waste your last minutes on earth gearing up when you could be riding. You know whilst we are making stupid improbable points about shit that aint gunna happen.
I love the nonsense this guy comes up with to defend his statements.

Essentially saying that he believes that ATGATT is a good thing, and he always wears at least minimum gear on his motorcycles, but, he's not going to wear it on the scooter. Fair enough. But no, he then has to make ridiculous arguments against ATGATT in order to support his choice for not wearing protective gear when stylin' round on his scooter.

Then he gets all butt-hurt when someone points out this incongruity in his particular flavor of logic.

Nobody really cares what you wear on your scooter, or your motorcycles. Those are your choices and that's cool with me whatever you select.

Obviously you feel exposed and under dressed in the scooter realm, though you place a priority on being comfortable and stylish and blending in with the other scooter operators (except those who do dress for a mishap). However, you feel a need to justify your choice then by bashing the very gear you wear on the motorcycles. WTF?

Grow up. Accept that you do these things because you want to. You are the only one who is uncomfortable with the flaw you find in your logic for gear choice. Nobody else really gives a hoot what you do. Much less how you justify it to yourself.

In your mixed up world of curiously infinite improbability you honestly believe with your heart and soul that because the odds are low that this is the same as "shit that aint gunna happen." This is where the fly gets stuck in the ointment.

The fact that it can and does happen pretty much makes any argument that it ain't gunna happen complete and utter bullshit.

You live in a dream world where even though you HAVE had unexpected get-offs, you continue to believe that you NEVER will.

Fortunately you offer enough feedback that anyone reading this tripe will at least be able to realize you have mental processing flaws in the logic realm because you let your feelings count as fact in your calculations, thus clouding your results.
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MotoTex screwed with this post 09-06-2013 at 11:25 AM Reason: Changed out my udders for utter and metal to mental
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Old 09-06-2013, 07:18 AM   #1350
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[QUOTE=Vertical C;22266769]
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Originally Posted by Pecha72 View Post

Did it take your leg off in a crash?
No, not mine. But my friend did once spend 7 weeks in hospital after colliding with a moto-taxi (without lights) in the dark. And another one mangled his leg quite badly, when a drunk driver crashed from behind. The scooter burned like a bonfire. Both accidents, where there was very little to do to prevent it on my friends part. Wrong place wrong time, that's all it takes.
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