ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Riding > The perfect line and other riding myths
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 09-09-2013, 09:12 AM   #1426
Wraith Rider
Studly Adventurer
 
Wraith Rider's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2012
Location: Germany
Oddometer: 916
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boon Booni View Post
We can't control...

We can't control...

We can't control... We can control...

Why are you so obsessed with control?
__________________
"Why not stay in disguise all the time? You know, look like everyone else."
"Because we shouldn't have to."
Wraith Rider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2013, 09:13 AM   #1427
Boon Booni
Red Clay Halo
 
Boon Booni's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2003
Location: Richmond, Va
Oddometer: 12,565
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wraith Rider View Post
Why are you so obsessed with control?
I am cognizant of the risks. The risks are the things I can not control.

How can one make an appropriate assessment of the risk of something if one is not aware what the risks are?

Why are you so oblivious to the risks?
__________________
A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men.

You can be Han Solo, and I can be another Han Solo...
Boon Booni is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2013, 09:21 AM   #1428
Pecha72
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: May 2008
Location: Helsinki, Finland
Oddometer: 2,697
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boon Booni View Post
Are you really this dense? He means "shit happens"

We can't control the car behind us, they might be texting or drunk, or 16 with a car full of kids or what have you and decide to run you over.

We can't control the left turner. They may see us, we may lock eyes, but they could still pull out at the last moment because really they are thinking about picking their kids up from soccer practice.

We can't always spot the diesel/antifreeze/gravel on the road.

We can not learn the habits of deer and avoid them.

We can't always spot the little old lady waiting to pull a sudden u-turn right as we are about to pass.

We can't trust that the car in the left lane with the left turn signal on, won't suddenly realize they have to turn right and cut across 3 lanes of traffic to do so.

We can't control any of this, and it all remains a risk. We can control our speed, our gear, our attention, but we are also still human and our ability to see everything, and therefore avoid it, is not absolute.

If you have to arrive safely by relying on the abilities of other drivers on the road to avoid you, to give you the right of way, to not try to kill you, then you are doing something wrong.
Bingo!

Things happen. So prepare. Or just ignore the risks, and hope your good luck continues.
Pecha72 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2013, 09:22 AM   #1429
Wraith Rider
Studly Adventurer
 
Wraith Rider's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2012
Location: Germany
Oddometer: 916
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boon Booni View Post
The risks are the things I can not control.
Sad life.
__________________
"Why not stay in disguise all the time? You know, look like everyone else."
"Because we shouldn't have to."
Wraith Rider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2013, 09:25 AM   #1430
DAKEZ
Beastly Adventurer
 
DAKEZ's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2007
Location: U-gene, OR.
Oddometer: 19,215
Riding a motorcycle is not dangerous in and of itself. Riding stupid is dangerous. Crashing is dangerous.

So, Don't Crash and don't ride stupid.




... And wear your gear for comfort
__________________
“Watch out for everything bigger than you, they have the "right of weight"
Bib
DAKEZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2013, 09:34 AM   #1431
randyo
Beastly Adventurer
 
randyo's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2007
Location: Northern NewEngland
Oddometer: 1,426
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boon Booni View Post
Are you really this dense? He means "shit happens"

We can't control the car behind us, they might be texting or drunk, or 16 with a car full of kids or what have you and decide to run you over.

We can't control the left turner. They may see us, we may lock eyes, but they could still pull out at the last moment because really they are thinking about picking their kids up from soccer practice.

We can't always spot the diesel/antifreeze/gravel on the road.

We can not learn the habits of deer and avoid them.

We can't always spot the little old lady waiting to pull a sudden u-turn right as we are about to pass.

We can't trust that the car in the left lane with the left turn signal on, won't suddenly realize they have to turn right and cut across 3 lanes of traffic to do so.

We can't control any of this, and it all remains a risk. We can control our speed, our gear, our attention, but we are also still human and our ability to see everything, and therefore avoid it, is not absolute.

If you have to arrive safely by relying on the abilities of other drivers on the road to avoid you, to give you the right of way, to not try to kill you, then you are doing something wrong.
you can't do a lot of things, but you can certainly reduce the risk so that it is negligible by choosing better routes and time of day

the best way to avoid getting injured is to avoid the accident in the first place and gear is no guarantee you won't get hurt

more attention should be given to riding safe than gear
__________________
RandyO
IBA # 9560
07 VeeStrom
99 SV650
82 XV920R
A man with a gun is a citizen
A man without a gun is a subject
randyo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2013, 09:38 AM   #1432
DAKEZ
Beastly Adventurer
 
DAKEZ's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2007
Location: U-gene, OR.
Oddometer: 19,215
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boon Booni View Post
We can't control the car behind us, they might be texting or drunk, or 16 with a car full of kids or what have you and decide to run you over. What is wrong with your mirrors?

We can't control the left turner. They may see us, we may lock eyes, but they could still pull out at the last moment because really they are thinking about picking their kids up from soccer practice. Never look at their eyes... And add latteral motion to help them see you.

We can't always spot the diesel/antifreeze/gravel on the road. This is "Shit Happens" But I am better at spotting it after having it bite me three times.

We can not learn the habits of deer and avoid them. No, But we can reduce the risk by NOT riding in peak movement times, (dawn/dusk/night) slowing down and being hyper vigilant

We can't always spot the little old lady waiting to pull a sudden u-turn right as we are about to pass. Pay attention to clues

We can't trust that the car in the left lane with the left turn signal on, won't suddenly realize they have to turn right and cut across 3 lanes of traffic to do so. Ride aware

We can't control any of this, and it all remains a risk. We can control our speed, our gear, our attention, but we are also still human and our ability to see everything, and therefore avoid it, is not absolute. 2% of the time you can just get bitten... WELL worth the "risk"

If you have to arrive safely by relying on the abilities of other drivers on the road to avoid you, to give you the right of way, to not try to kill you, then you are doing something wrong.
I don't much care what the other road users do... It is MY responsibility (as a rider) to avoid them.
__________________
“Watch out for everything bigger than you, they have the "right of weight"
Bib
DAKEZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2013, 09:39 AM   #1433
DAKEZ
Beastly Adventurer
 
DAKEZ's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2007
Location: U-gene, OR.
Oddometer: 19,215
Bingo!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by randyo View Post
more attention should be given to riding safe than gear



__________________
“Watch out for everything bigger than you, they have the "right of weight"
Bib
DAKEZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2013, 09:46 AM   #1434
Pecha72
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: May 2008
Location: Helsinki, Finland
Oddometer: 2,697
Quote:
Originally Posted by randyo View Post
you can't do a lot of things, but you can certainly reduce the risk so that it is negligible by choosing better routes and time of day

the best way to avoid getting injured is to avoid the accident in the first place and gear is no guarantee you won't get hurt

more attention should be given to riding safe than gear
No shit, Sherlock! But if you're, say, commuting to work, then in reality you might not be able to choose your route or timing so much.

BTW, I've always said there are many important "layers" of safety, gear is just one, and the final one. The one, that can help, if all others failed, even though there is no guarantee.
Pecha72 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2013, 09:54 AM   #1435
Boon Booni
Red Clay Halo
 
Boon Booni's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2003
Location: Richmond, Va
Oddometer: 12,565
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wraith Rider View Post
Sad life.
Still got your head up your ass.

You'll be able to spot the risk better if you pull it out.
__________________
A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men.

You can be Han Solo, and I can be another Han Solo...
Boon Booni is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2013, 09:56 AM   #1436
Boon Booni
Red Clay Halo
 
Boon Booni's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2003
Location: Richmond, Va
Oddometer: 12,565
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAKEZ View Post
I don't much care what the other road users do... It is MY responsibility (as a rider) to avoid them.
I agree, that's why I don't give up control to other drivers.

But I am not under any illusions that I can see everything all of the time, which is why I am ATGATT

Riding ATGATT is not exclusive from riding safely. I think the two go hand in hand.
__________________
A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men.

You can be Han Solo, and I can be another Han Solo...

Boon Booni screwed with this post 09-09-2013 at 10:32 AM
Boon Booni is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2013, 10:17 AM   #1437
pretbek
Studly Adventurer
 
pretbek's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2008
Location: West Chester, PA
Oddometer: 660
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wraith Rider View Post
I don't. I just want to know why you are so obsessed with control. Why don't you answer?
You sound like this knock-knock joke:

WR: Knock knock!
ADV: Who's there?
WR: Control Freak. Now you say "control freak who?"!
ADV: ...



Quote:
Originally Posted by randyo View Post
more attention should be given to riding safe than gear
As being a factor for keeping from being injured, yes I agree.
But since they are not mutually exclusive, I will keep practicing to ride safely AND wear gear.

pretbek screwed with this post 09-09-2013 at 10:23 AM
pretbek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2013, 10:29 AM   #1438
MotoTex
Miles of Smiles
 
MotoTex's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2009
Location: Tool Shed
Oddometer: 1,438
Quote:
Originally Posted by randyo View Post
you can't do a lot of things, but you can certainly reduce the risk so that it is negligible by choosing better routes and time of day

the best way to avoid getting injured is to avoid the accident in the first place and gear is no guarantee you won't get hurt

more attention should be given to riding safe than gear
Part of "riding safe" IS gear choice. They are not separate from one another.

What you are calling "riding safe" is applying SIPDE.

When something happens and that isn't enough the other half of the equation is being prepared for this as well in whatever degree you choose.

Planning to avoid collisions in no way provides a guarantee that they won't happen and the second half of the equation won't be necessary in order to reduce chances of injury.

Granted, a constant focus on bettering rider skills and applying good choices is the most effective thing that can be done. This attitude is based on expecting the unexpected. It would be counter to this very concept to presume you won't ever get into a collision.

Refining one's gear selection skills is part of the constant improvement to deal with what may come your way on any ride. (the fact that gear may also keep a rider more comfortable and better able to respond is icing on the cake)

So, you are half right. Ignoring the other half thinking you have things handled could prove to be disappointing, if not painful.
__________________

This is The Internet. Confirm for yourself anything you may see while visiting this strange and uncertain land.


MotoTex screwed with this post 09-09-2013 at 10:50 AM
MotoTex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2013, 10:37 AM   #1439
Wraith Rider
Studly Adventurer
 
Wraith Rider's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2012
Location: Germany
Oddometer: 916
Quote:
Originally Posted by MotoTex View Post
Part of "riding safe" IS gear choice. They are not separate from one another.
You misunderstood that. Gear is a passive safety system, with "riding safe" he was referring to active safety systems. These are VERY separate from one another.
__________________
"Why not stay in disguise all the time? You know, look like everyone else."
"Because we shouldn't have to."
Wraith Rider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2013, 10:46 AM   #1440
randyo
Beastly Adventurer
 
randyo's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2007
Location: Northern NewEngland
Oddometer: 1,426
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pecha72 View Post
No shit, Sherlock! But if you're, say, commuting to work, then in reality you might not be able to choose your route or timing so much.
.
there's always a choice, I know plenty of people that have moved or got a different job just because of the commute
__________________
RandyO
IBA # 9560
07 VeeStrom
99 SV650
82 XV920R
A man with a gun is a citizen
A man without a gun is a subject
randyo is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 02:03 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014