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Old 06-09-2012, 02:46 PM   #31
skierd
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I think I'd be interested in trying one of these things as well. Getting a nice clatter from the cam chain side of my motor on most cold start ups now that goes away a few seconds after, thinking the tensioner might have gone after nearly 40k miles. Think its possible to get the MCCT on without removing the starter?
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"We wish your trail a long one" - Darlene "Sid" Dowd ~ Never run out of traction, ideas, and real estate at the same time.
2008 Yamaha WR250X
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Old 06-09-2012, 03:21 PM   #32
gloud
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As far as the solution and the end rusting you can get a small zinc coating kit from eastwood . it would only take a few mins with each one to get it coated. Good product.

gloud screwed with this post 06-11-2012 at 09:57 AM
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Old 06-11-2012, 06:28 AM   #33
markk53
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Thanks for the Eastwood tip, I will be doing that. I'm thinking the screw slot is the ticket for this one. It could be done on all of them, but I'm thinking accessability will make it too difficult for some. This one requires the slot though (but saves a $5 Yamaha exhaust nut, keeping the price on it at $30 plus shipping which is a good thing).

Second one got sent out to Australia. If this solves some WR problems it will become a standard stock item for me. Two on the shelf presently. Email me from here if interested. From what I see the part should be able to be installed without starter removal. The problem was starter interference with the acorn and jam nut I use on the end of the adjuster bolt.
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Old 06-11-2012, 04:26 PM   #34
Jedaha
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I just had a look at my WR and I think the bottom tensioner allen screw will be a real challenge with the starter motor in place. In one of simonpigs photos on previous page it looks do-able, but I think his starter is still partially removed at that point check your Wr out and you will see the bottom screw is buried pretty well.

Skierd .. I'm the guy from Australia waiting on the tensioner, so I'll let you know if the starter needs removing. Won't have my tensioner for another week at least due to shipping times.
BTW. Have your valve shims needed adjusting after 40k miles?
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Old 06-11-2012, 07:06 PM   #35
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You will need to remove the starter, but it's no biggie. 2 Allen screws and a grounding bolt. It's press fit. Can't remember but i don't think you even need to remove pipe/mid pipe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedaha View Post
I just had a look at my WR and I think the bottom tensioner allen screw will be a real challenge with the starter motor in place. In one of simonpigs photos on previous page it looks do-able, but I think his starter is still partially removed at that point check your Wr out and you will see the bottom screw is buried pretty well.

Skierd .. I'm the guy from Australia waiting on the tensioner, so I'll let you know if the starter needs removing. Won't have my tensioner for another week at least due to shipping times.
BTW. Have your valve shims needed adjusting after 40k miles?
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Old 06-12-2012, 01:29 AM   #36
skierd
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Jedaha - The intake valves were at their lower limit, and the exhaust valves were slightly too tight when I had the valves done at 25k miles. I'll open it back up around 50k to see how everything's doing probably, might do it if/when I order a MCCT though.

Simon - thanks for the tip!

Mark, I'll email you in the morning.
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"We wish your trail a long one" - Darlene "Sid" Dowd ~ Never run out of traction, ideas, and real estate at the same time.
2008 Yamaha WR250X
Eastern TAT 8/2009 ~MD-Key West-Oklahoma 4/2011~Maryland to Alaska 3/2012
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Old 06-19-2012, 03:42 AM   #37
Jedaha
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Got my MCCT from Mark today.
Installed it tonight, assumed Mark had trimmed it to Simons recommendations, but I had to remove it and cut 15mm from the length to make it miss the starter. (Mine was even hitting the recessed bit (just rubbing on it))

Because there is only 22mm Travel in the auto tensioners piston, so long as there is 22 mm left behind the locknut after tensioning, you should have full adjustment capability, which I have, more than, also I have 11k kms of wear in the guides and chain, so I'd say Mark, you can safely ship the tensioners with the 15mm cut off the length.

Unfortunately my weird clatter noise is still there, even after adjustment of MCCT. Therefore its safe to say the noise is not the Cam chain clattering, but what is it. (Thanks Mark, you saved me $300 Australian in the diagnosis)

Could it be something to do with the de-compression mechanism on the cam ??
Something to do with the starter engagement mechanism??

It happens when you rev the bike (stationary in neutral), and quickly shut off the throttle, as the revs fall back down, abruptly near the mid to bottom of the revs, there is a weird clatter/ vibration, which you could swear was a rattling chain type of noise. ???????????????????
Unfortunately I don't have another WRR to compare it to.
Even my mechanic mate said what the hell is that noise?

Any Ideas anyone.
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Old 06-19-2012, 05:54 AM   #38
simonpig OP
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Is the noise cause for concern, and is the bike running rough? If you've hit the stock chain tensioner's OEM adjustment range into the engine (~51 mm), then it's either the guides have worn, or the chain is stretched.

At this point you're going to need to pop the top and check tolerances of the moving mechanical parts to check for wear both visually and maybe with a caliper. Your bike has fewer miles than mine so it would be odd for things to wear this fast, but in my search for answers on the clacking, I did find an instance where someone need to replace their chain at around 15K.

Beyond valve adjustment check, my guesses are:
• Worn chain guides
• Stretched chain
• Timing is little off (maybe because of stretched chain)

Let us know what you find.
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Old 06-19-2012, 06:48 AM   #39
Jedaha
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I thought the noise was cause for concern, thats why I thought it was worth replacing tensioner, as yamaha have apparently changed the design a couple of times since the 98 model. And it did sound like chain clatter.

I think you misunderstood my post about my adjustment, I have plenty of adjustment left in my manual tensioner. Its probably about 35mm into the engine at the moment, if that.

I was going to pop the valve cover off and check my valves, but at 11,000ks. I'm pretty sure it will be a waste of time, from what others have found.
However after what you've just said, I'd be more interested in timing mark alignment, as with my WRF the chain was stretched at 6500k's (Reving harder though.)

I've only owned the bike for 1,100k's, so I can't really say how or if the noise has progressed.
I still have the Wr250F (that I can't sell, no-one is buying at the moment) that doesn't have the noise. I know they are very different motors. However.

Because I can get good tension on the cam chain, I can't see how any of the timing chain mechanics are involved now.

I spent most of the night looking in the service manual.

Since this is my first electric start bike, I'm curious how the starter clutch engages/ disengages, and if it could vibrate at a certain rev, looks possible.
It looks like it sort of free wheels on the back of the generator rotor, until it is actually rotated by the starter motor and engages on the rotor?
I could imagine how it would be possible for this to shudder at a certain revs.

Anyway I'll keep you informed, I'll probably take it into the dealer and give them a listen.

I'm not going to go too overboard on this.
After all I bought this bike because I was sick of the maintenance on the F, and now I can just ride to the trails and enjoy that just as much.
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Old 06-19-2012, 11:43 AM   #40
markk53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedaha View Post
Got my MCCT from Mark today.
Installed it tonight, assumed Mark had trimmed it to Simons recommendations, but I had to remove it and cut 15mm from the length to make it miss the starter. (Mine was even hitting the recessed bit (just rubbing on it))

Because there is only 22mm Travel in the auto tensioners piston, so long as there is 22 mm left behind the locknut after tensioning, you should have full adjustment capability, which I have, more than, also I have 11k kms of wear in the guides and chain, so I'd say Mark, you can safely ship the tensioners with the 15mm cut off the length.

Unfortunately my weird clatter noise is still there, even after adjustment of MCCT. Therefore its safe to say the noise is not the Cam chain clattering, but what is it. (Thanks Mark, you saved me $300 Australian in the diagnosis)

Could it be something to do with the de-compression mechanism on the cam ??
Something to do with the starter engagement mechanism??

It happens when you rev the bike (stationary in neutral), and quickly shut off the throttle, as the revs fall back down, abruptly near the mid to bottom of the revs, there is a weird clatter/ vibration, which you could swear was a rattling chain type of noise. ???????????????????
Unfortunately I don't have another WRR to compare it to.
Even my mechanic mate said what the hell is that noise?

Any Ideas anyone.
One possibility, but first would it be better to drop 20mm shorter on the bolt or just do 15? This is what I need to know. Will a 20mm shorter bolt work with the screw slot? If so, I will do it. I just don't want to be too short. Email me with notes, it is quicker for me to adapt.

Now for another possibility. If. by some long shot, the Yamaha decompressor is like that of the KLX650 it is possible there is a spring that has fallen off. I have had that happen twice on my KLX. Once the spring ended up in the sump with no bad effects, the other time it stayed in the head area where I recovered it with a bit of damage to the spring but nothing else. It made a lot of clatter at low rpm.

I'd take off the cam cover and take a look. Another thing is you could "nose around" with a mechanic's stethoscope to see if you can isolate where the noise is coming from. A long handle screwdriver with the handle against your ear and the tip touching around the engine works too.
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Ever get lost? You know, that good kind of lost - come to a dirt road intersection and you have no idea where you are or which way to turn? I like when that happens!

Mark - klx678
95 KLX650C w/Vulcan piston bigbore, Now an 09 KLX250S, selling my 90 Zephyr 550
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Old 06-19-2012, 04:50 PM   #41
Jedaha
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Thanks for tips guys, yeah I'll take the cam cover off and have a look, check my valves and timing alignment marks, for chain stretch.
I've already done the screwdriver stethoscope, and couldn't really narrow it down much, however now I've eliminated the CCT I'll have another look.
Couldn't do too much last night with a two brothers racing exhaust and neighbours.

Mark I've sent an Email about the screw and 20 mm shorter will be perfect (70mm long), and it will adjust all the way down to the equivalent of full extension of the Automatic tensioners piston.

Geoff
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Old 06-20-2012, 06:52 AM   #42
Jedaha
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Did my valve clearances tonight and all in spec. Although closer to the lower limit.
Decompression mechanism is in tact.
Timing marks are alligned, with no evidence of cam chain stretch or cam sprocket wear, so the valve gear and cam chain / tension are all Ok.

Will do some more testing tomorrow.
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Old 07-02-2012, 06:10 AM   #43
Jedaha
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Pulled the clutch apart for an inspection, to see if anything there could possibly be causing the vibes.
All looks ok and is in spec. Plates are right in the centre of the range of thickness the manual gives, springs are in tolerance.

Also did an oil change as the motor was getting quite rough feeling riding at 100kph on the road.
I decided a while ago to at least halve the books recommended 5000km change period, but due to the rough feeling of the motor and its my second change since I've owned it I thought I'd better change it too get a ball park figure of how the oil was doing (2000ks) since I bought it and did an initial change.

Whooa .. the oil was runny like water when I drained it. Think I might just shorten the oil change intervals some more, don't know how you'd get 5000ks out of the oil, and still have good viscosity. This was a belray semi synthetic 10W40. I replaced it with Panolin 10W40. The motor is now smooth as silk at 100+ ks on the road now.

HOWEVER I still have the bad clatter noise when revving the motor stationary, definitely sounds like its coming from the magneto / starter clutch area, I need to have a peek in there I guess. I'm guessing this noise is also there when riding at certain revs, but I don't notice it as much with helmet and earplugs in. It would be in the lower to mid range of the revs also.

Can't be too serious I guess, as I've put 2000k's on the bike now, it just doesn't sound right though.
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Old 07-31-2012, 06:27 AM   #44
Jedaha
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Finally got around to digging into the starter clutch side of the motor.

It looks like the starter clutch may be fried.
Haven't got a flywheel puller so can't see the clutch, however the back of the flywheel, ie. other side of where the starter clutch sits is extremely blued, i.e. it has been very hot.

Clutch feels fine when turning by hand, and bike starts perfectly every time, but it looks like theres a lot of friction there.
Stay tuned for when I get a puller.



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Old 07-31-2012, 06:15 PM   #45
Jedaha
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Spoke to yamaha over phone about this when ordering puller.
The workshop tech said the bluing may not necessarily mean something is fried, could be a part of heat treatment.

This looks pretty suvire on mine and also the white writing is discoloured, suppose it depends on if they brand it before or after heat treatment. I'll know when I get the puller.

SimonPig, Can you remember if your generator rotor was discoloured like this??
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