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Old 02-17-2014, 05:33 PM   #256
AceRider01
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i am sorry but this link lean angle jeans posted just gets more convoluted and i am scratching my head:

On the link it says the standards the jean fulfilled is :
"" 2 PfG 1909/02.2011
last amended by EEC Directive 96/58/EEC
Directive 89/686/EEC """"



and when clicking on certificate type, it tells me this (italics and highlight added):

EG-Baumusterbescheinigung PSA


The EC type-examination certificate refers to the product as specified in the certificate. This is to certify that the product complies with the requirements of Annex II of the directive 89/686/EEC, referred to as the personal protection equipment directive. This certificate does not imply assessment of the production of the product and does not permit the use of a TÜV Rheinland mark of conformity. The holder is entitled to use this certificate in connection with the declaration of conformity in accordance with Annex VI.




--------------------

perhaps someone with more in depth understanding of the certification can make more sense of these. But my understanding is the directive 89/686/EEC is general statements and in no way implied the test requirements under EN13595-1 has been passed at any level? This was what Rukka used a few years back trying to imply somehow their clothing is CE certified!


Lean Angle Jeans, show us your test results - it should look like this:
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Old 02-18-2014, 09:13 PM   #257
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I followed the links a bit, and it seems to me (I do read German and English, but not Kroatian) they are using the correct EU directives and certification method for their pants that are not for professional motorcycle riders.
[Edit: the seller maintains that they are EN13595-1 certified; see http://www.advrider.com/forums/showp...&postcount=198. I still can't find that in their documentation.] They are allowed to display the CE symbol, with the number of the certifying agency if they want, but they are not allowed to use the TÜV symbol. This thread is about CE approved clothing, so to me it seems they qualify to be listed here, but not at the professional gear level.

I'll see whether I can add some of the links I used.
Text of EN 13595-1 norm for personal protective equipment for professional motorcycle riders: https://archive.org/stream/srps.en.1...ge/n5/mode/2up I didn't know this was available; you can make your own zone templates...

European norms related to PPE: http://newapproach.cen.eu/cen/stdlis...m=CEN/TC%20162 (EN 13595 is 3/4 down the list, the norm for abrasion resistance EN 530 they are [Edit: seem to be, at least to me] using is at the top, and the three EN 1621 norms for protectors are one page down)

EU directive 89/686 : http://eur-lex.europa.eu/Notice.do?m...&val=149778:cs

What I can't find is the TÜV test norm 2 PfG 1909/02.2011 (I think PfG just means 'Prüfung', meaning it's not a law, just an internal test procedure). It would be interesting to compare it to EN 13595, or the abrasion part of it.

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Old 02-19-2014, 04:27 PM   #258
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So, if i understand correctly, Gruesome, is that Lean Angle Jeans is allowed to display CE label, presumably they conform to some protective clothing requirements and maybe pass some tests.

But most importantly, there is nothing to indicate any tests/requirments under EN13595-1 have been passed.

Well perhaps the title of this thread should be more specific, but i think participants of this thread generally assume clothing listed here would include passing EN13595 tests.

BTW, the articles links under your signature are a great read. What i did with Atlantis 4 back protector is trim the top a bit - no issues at all now. Perfect temp for Atlantis 4 for me is 50 to 80F assuming the sun is out with either a short or long sleeve T shirt.

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Old 02-19-2014, 05:00 PM   #259
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Yes. My understanding is the TÜV tested one of their pants for abrasion following 2 PfG something and certified it conforms to directive 89/686 and additions/updates thereof and specifically EN 530, which allows them to display the CE mark.
Nothing was tested to EN 13595. [Edit: the seller maintains that they are EN13595-1 certified; see http://www.advrider.com/forums/showp...&postcount=198. I still can't find that in their documentation.] Until I used the second link (newapproach.cen.eu) I was also not aware of any other clothing norm than the one for professional riders. I recommend you at least browse EN 13595 (the text is in English, even though the link is to the Kroatian version) to judge for yourself how much you value the other stuff besides abrasion in that norm. Its also interesting to see how the requirements for leather are higher than for textile!

It's true though that most of us are not professional riders. One of the EU directives or norms ( I think it's 89/686) mentions in several places the compromise between protection, practicality of wearing, and the clothing actually getting in the way of the task. Which reminded me of my initial thought when I first saw that thick Halvarsson underlayer: I'm not sure I'd want to wear this while pursuing a supposedly fun activity. The BMW NP protectors are already almost crossing the line for me. 25 years ago we didn't have to wear that stuff, and we survived. Of course, we were also healing faster back then...

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Old 02-19-2014, 05:59 PM   #260
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Update first post?

Ranmafan, should the first post maybe be updated to
A) include a link to the EN 13595 norm full text,
B) mention that it is for 'professional motorcycle riders',
C) add EN 1621-4:2013 for motorcycle inflatable protection (status is listed as 'ratified'),
And
D) mention EN 530 for (non-professional) abrasion resistance?

D) might be controversial.
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Old 02-19-2014, 07:58 PM   #261
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well the whole point of thread is about the list of clothing pass EN13595-1 tests (even if the title is not clear, the first thread makes it clear); It is the only testing standard suitable for testing the impact abrasion quality of MC Clothing.

Under EN530 test, the material is abraded using a set abradant under a known force. The resistance to abrasion is defined by the number of cycles to breakdown - this is similar to the Martindale test which is more suitable for testing wearability rather than impact abrasion for motorcyclist.

I think if Lean Angle jeans is genuine about its claim of passing EN13595-1 at level 2 (or level 1), it needs to provide actual certificate to attest it.

I am going to put a post in its official thread to request the same.

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Old 02-20-2014, 06:06 AM   #262
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Acerider, the first entry already mentions other norms, like the one for gloves. I think it would be good to have all applicable CE norms for motorcycle personal protective equipment, whether for professional or unpaid riders, in this thread, since that is what the title promises.

Looking through the list under my ' newapproach' link, there seem to be a few more (like, puncture and cut resistance) that are applicable to motorcycle PPE, besides EN 530.

Ok, here's a start; probably best edited on a PC instead of my tablet...:
Work Item ID Standard Reference Directive(s) Technical Body Harmonisation Stage Ratified Current status
00162261 EN 530:2010 89/686/EEC CEN/TC 162 6/19/2010 Ratified
Title of standard Abrasion resistance of protective clothing material - Test methods
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Old 02-20-2014, 06:14 AM   #263
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Domiken View Post
Wow if I didn't know any better I would think you guys were competitors

TUV lists all the companies that have certificates, please see our link below:
http://www.certipedia.com/certificat...&page_number=1

If in the future we decide to post the certificate you'll be the first to know, as for now please refer to the TUV website or feel free to reach out to us directly.
Very weird quote from your certificate...
"This certificate does not imply assessment of the production of the product and does not permit the use of a TÜV Rheinland mark of conformity."



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Old 02-20-2014, 06:17 AM   #264
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AceRider01 View Post
well the whole point of thread is about the list of clothing pass EN13595-1 tests (even if the title is not clear, the first thread makes it clear); It is the only testing standard suitable for testing the impact abrasion quality of MC Clothing.

Under EN530 test, the material is abraded using a set abradant under a known force. The resistance to abrasion is defined by the number of cycles to breakdown - this is similar to the Martindale test which is more suitable for testing wearability rather than impact abrasion for motorcyclist.

I think if Lean Angle jeans is genuine about its claim of passing EN13595-1 at level 2 (or level 1), it needs to provide actual certificate to attest it.

I am going to put a post in its official thread to request the same.
Your post in his thread was deleted by 'someone'
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Old 02-20-2014, 04:25 PM   #265
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gruesome View Post
Acerider, the first entry already mentions other norms, like the one for gloves. I think it would be good to have all applicable CE norms for motorcycle personal protective equipment, whether for professional or unpaid riders, in this thread, since that is what the title promises.
..............
Gruesome, perhaps my use of the term "motorcycle clothing" was not entirely accurate - by that i meant jackets and pants only and do not include other items.- Gloves, boots and air bag protectors are included separately on the first page together with the relevantly appropriate (to MC riders)standards listed. Hence EN13594, EN13634 & EN1621.4 are also listed.


EN 13595 is the only standard appropriate to MC riders in so far as testing for garment fabrics - that's why under the link you provided, it is the only one that says "Protective clothing for professional motorcycle riders - Jackets, trousers ...".

To avoid further confusion (like one which you mentioned here), the words "professional" and a few other unsubstantial requirements such as "dye fastness" are removed in proposed replacement standards currently being considered. In short, the use of the word "professional" was not intended to distinguished between paid professional such MC couriers and racers, and the general MC riding public.

EN530 is a standard for testing of abrasion resistance for PPE - but not PPE for MC riders - it was more intended for industrial or military personnel when exposed to repeated abrasion (of lower force spike compare to MC riders)- think of it as durability test - i cant find the full text of the standard nor willing to pay for it, but here is a summary discussion put out by DuPont http://www2.dupont.com/Personal_Prot..._physical.html
------------------


Regardless of the discussion above, Lean Angle Jeans @ post #242 states:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Domiken View Post
All three sections were passed. Thanks. This is all highlighted in our manual.

We do have the certificate and the test report showing the results of all.

If you guys want to get technical then yes it would be EN 13595-1 Level 2 :)
There is no evidence at this point to suggest this was in fact what happened.
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Old 02-20-2014, 04:31 PM   #266
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deaf1 View Post
Your post in his thread was deleted by 'someone'
Yes moderator mistaken me for a competitor "shitting the thread" ..... my post was deleted - i asked had i shown any disrespect, then they should edit my thread but i am certain my issue raised is material and relevant and the fellow inmates have a right to know and hear what the vendor has to say.
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Old 02-20-2014, 06:22 PM   #267
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deaf1 View Post
Very weird quote from your certificate...
"This certificate does not imply assessment of the production of the product and does not permit the use of a TÜV Rheinland mark of conformity."
I think this is fine. There are different types of assessment or test you can buy from TÜV or other certifying bodies: they range from just an assessment of your methods, to a test of a single piece of equipment, to certifying you for ISO 9000/9001 (or whatever the number is now) quality control methods, to accompanying testing and certification of your production line. The quote just says that TÜV did not do the latter, and that they are not allowed to put a TÜV sign on their stuff. They paid for the test that allows them to put the CE mark.

What seems very odd and a bit disconcerting though is that domiken states they passed EN 13595 when the certificate listed on the TÜV site mentions no such thing. If they paid for EN 13595 testing, then they should ask to get a certificate that states that.

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Old 02-21-2014, 05:13 AM   #268
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gruesome View Post
Ranmafan, should the first post maybe be updated to
A) include a link to the EN 13595 norm full text,
B) mention that it is for 'professional motorcycle riders',
C) add EN 1621-4:2013 for motorcycle inflatable protection (status is listed as 'ratified'),
And
D) mention EN 530 for (non-professional) abrasion resistance?

D) might be controversial.
Thanks, will update accordingly once I make sense of it for myself. I'd rather not bring in the "non-professional" distinction, though - I'm more or less certain the only (realistic) way for MC clothing is allowed to be claimed "protective" is if it's certified as PPE (thus EN13595 and friends).

(Also, my (crude) understanding is that individual countries usually adopt the EN standards under their own naming system, which may or not correspond to the CEN one. Something like that .So EN13595 could - possibly - appear under a different name.)

Sorry for slow updates - I'm buried under a metric ****ton of work that will take some time to get through...

EDIT: Updated the main post with a brief notice. Don't want to say much more than that until I understand what's going on myself.

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Old 03-01-2014, 06:48 AM   #269
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Question Anybody know if this is REALLY "CE Approved"?

Ads for this product state it is "PERRINI CE Approved Full Body Armor" but I can't find anything out about this manufacturer (?"Italian" name, "Chinese" product?). Given the price, I have my doubts. Here's a link to my previous post: http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=957906

Anyone used this or know anything about it?
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Old 03-05-2014, 09:19 AM   #270
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Best CE Level 1 and 2 if possible, denim jean and combats

Hi All,

I'm looking for some blue denim biking jeans and also some biking combat style trousers.

Am I right that Bull-It jeans are the only denim jean to meet CE Level 2?

http://www.motolegends.com/trousers/...oce-jeans.html

What other brands meet CE level 1 or ideally 2 please? I'm only familiar with Draggin.

As fit is very individual, I'm 5'10 and 11.5 stone, so quite slim, so any particular brand model recommendations would be really appreciated too :)

Regarding biking combats, ideally I'd like a solid olive or green colour, rather than camo, so any advice here would be great as well.

Many thanks :)
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