ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Gear > Equipment
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 04-19-2012, 09:19 PM   #31
Gruesome
Alter Heizer
 
Gruesome's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2007
Location: Chicago
Oddometer: 791
Quote:
Originally Posted by ranmafan View Post
The only fact relevant to this thread is that you do not have full EN13594 certification.
Maybe that's true for this this thread, but in general I would be very interested in all protective clothing performance and test results, no matter who did the test.

The English web site (ppe-pva) quoted at the very beginning of this thread seems a bit vague (to me at least) on the rules for certification. Apparently there is no one CE certifying institution. The article mentions motorcycle clothing 'to be independently tested' by a 'European Notified Body'. It also mentions three Cambridge abrading machines in existence, at Cambridge University, SATRA (a for-profit tester, I assume) and at 'Ride' magazine.
Maybe somebody could explain how it works in practice, who these 'notified bodies' are, etc.

In general, if some clothing had been tested to EN 13595 etc. I'd like to know about that, regardless of whether it passed or not. Actually, especially if it didn't pass. But maybe that discussion should be in a different thread.
Gruesome is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2012, 09:22 PM   #32
ranmafan OP
Gnarly Adventurer
 
ranmafan's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2010
Location: Cowtown, Canada
Oddometer: 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by MotoandCo View Post
All the SoubiraC rated CE are Level 2.
http://www.soubirac.eu/vetements/veste#203
Thanks, added. They also have boots and North American dealers!

Emails fired off to Spidi, Hideout, BKS.
ranmafan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2012, 10:06 PM   #33
ranmafan OP
Gnarly Adventurer
 
ranmafan's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2010
Location: Cowtown, Canada
Oddometer: 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gruesome View Post
In general, if some clothing had been tested to EN 13595 etc. I'd like to know about that, regardless of whether it passed or not. Actually, especially if it didn't pass. But maybe that discussion should be in a different thread.
Well, it's not like we're overflowing with content, yet :)

I forgot which thread I was reading, but I do recall someone (from one of the labs doing the testing) saying that, given some specific info, they are obliged to provide pass/fail results. The problem is, I'm not sure if someone other than the manufacturer would pay for official testing, and there is no way to match a failed sample to a product on the market otherwise with certainty...

With regards to info about the actual process of certification, it would indeed be very nice to put together a more detailed explanation (okay, I'm sure that'll take more than a few posts), including some general idea of the cost. That is, one that a small manufacturer outside of Europe could use as a guide for their own products.
ranmafan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2012, 06:25 AM   #34
genka
SUV hater
 
genka's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2010
Location: Baltimore, MD
Oddometer: 1,507
Quote:
Originally Posted by ranmafan View Post
[*]Draggin Jeans
There are two independent manufacturers of "Draggin Jeans":
American : http://www.dragginjeans.com/category.aspx?categoryID=1
Australian, a.k.a Drayko http://www.dragginjeans.net/index , http://www.drayko.com/
I don't think any American jeans are certified, but all Drayko models are CE.
__________________
.

Форум мотоциклистов в США http://www.xytopok.net/mvnforum/listthreads?forum=31
genka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2012, 12:40 PM   #35
ranmafan OP
Gnarly Adventurer
 
ranmafan's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2010
Location: Cowtown, Canada
Oddometer: 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by genka View Post
There are two independent manufacturers of "Draggin Jeans":
American : http://www.dragginjeans.com/category.aspx?categoryID=1
Australian, a.k.a Drayko http://www.dragginjeans.net/index , http://www.drayko.com/
I don't think any American jeans are certified, but all Drayko models are CE.
Thanks, I was completely unaware of this. Updated.
ranmafan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2012, 12:51 PM   #36
ranmafan OP
Gnarly Adventurer
 
ranmafan's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2010
Location: Cowtown, Canada
Oddometer: 141
Got a round of replies, all of them good news:

Spidi:
Quote:
... pants are not certified at the moment, and are going to be (being under test right now ; construction is identical as jacket)
Hideout:
Quote:
Currently all of the Hideout range of leather garments are CE Certified, the Hi-pro is going through the testing as I write so will be available from the autumn.
BKS:
Quote:
BKS (made to measure) Ltd now only manufacture CE Approved leather suits, jackets and trousers. It applies to the whole garment as well as the impact protection inside. This applies to all models.
...
BKS were the first company in 1994 to ever achieve this and continue to maintain the benchmark for PPE having achieved Cambridge Standard (High Performance Classification) which is the same as EN13595 parts 1 - 4 (level 3).
ranmafan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2012, 01:41 PM   #37
MZ5
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Jul 2011
Location: Arizona, USA
Oddometer: 102
The whole line of Xpd (that's Spidi's boot brand name) XP-7 boots are CE level 2 certified. I have a photo of the tags in mine, but nowhere to host them at the moment. You can see their boot lineup here:
http://www.xpdboots.com/jspxpd/xpdboots.jsp?catid=1

I recall the WPS (Western PowerSports) catalog to have shown their XP-3 boots as Level 1 certified when I was looking last year, but the wps-inc.com site isn't working for me today so I don't know what the catalog says this year.

There was a request up the thread to make this a sticky. If something like that is done, then for my part I would like a catalog of what's certified AND ALSO EVERYTHING THAT HAS PASSED THE CE PERFORMANCE TESTS. That means I'd want to know about VelocityGear gloves, for example, or any other items that passed cut, tear, burst, seam strength, and impact protection. I don't frankly care about CE's testing for whether a dye is irritating or not or meets the euro concept of 'environmental' acceptability or not. American has more than enough rules and laws about that sort of thing for me.
MZ5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2012, 01:44 PM   #38
Spidi - on track
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Spidi - on track's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2010
Location: Italy
Oddometer: 386
Ergo 365 pro Jacket

Hello everybody.

I'd been asked from a component of your team to clarify that Ergo 365 Pro and Ergo 365 Pro Expedition Jackets are CE Certified EN 13595-1.


This is the norm that you pass once your product has passed 3 group of tests:

GROUP 1 : Impact and abrasion resistance
GROUP 2 : Cut resistance
GROUP 3 : Cut strength

You can pass each group of test at different levels.
The higher is the value the higher is the level number.
Spidi jackets passed at level 2, that is the higher level (the worst is level 1); here're the Spidi test result values:



For that reason, Ergo 365 Pro and Ergo 365 Pro Expedition are certified 13595-1 at level 2.
Here you see the pictogram inside the jacket :



Numbers on the right mean the 3 test groups have been passed at level 2.

Ergo Pro pants are not certified, even if the materials are same as jacket, number of layers is same, construction type is the same. The reason is just commercial: pants have not been tested.

Even in Europe the demand of this certification is new, probably these pants and other Spidi items will pass the certification in a close future.



Thanks all for your attention, if you want to follow Spidi in the forum please go to the thread

Matteo De Vito
Spidi Marketing Dept
Vicenza - Italy
__________________
Established in 1977, Spidi is a world leader in technical motorcycle apparel.

Spidi is creator of Ergo Jacket.

Visit us here.

Spidi - on track screwed with this post 04-20-2012 at 02:01 PM
Spidi - on track is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2012, 02:10 PM   #39
Valentino
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Apr 2012
Location: England
Oddometer: 126
Thumb Well done Spidi!

Hi Matteo,

Well done Spidi! I congratulate you for posting the CE test results here. These great test results are worth advertising.

As you can see, this is the start of a trend for customers who want clothing that is proven as CE Personal Protective Equipment. Judging by the posts here, I expect this trend to grow in future. Because of its Level 2 certification, the Spidi Ergo 365 jacket is now very high on the list for my next jacket. I had not considered Spidi before.

Please could Spidi make a version of the Ergo 365 jacket with a DPS airbag? Is this something the on-fit service could do? For safety conscious customers, now we have to choose between a CE-jacket and an airbag jacket. This is important, because of the competition from Dainese's D-Air Street jacket. I imagine the demand for airbag jackets was low. However, Alpinestars and Dainese advertising will grow the market for airbag jackets in future.

Valentino screwed with this post 04-20-2012 at 02:31 PM
Valentino is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2012, 02:57 PM   #40
Spidi - on track
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Spidi - on track's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2010
Location: Italy
Oddometer: 386
Airbag + CE certified jacket

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valentino View Post
Hi Matteo,

Well done Spidi! I congratulate you for posting the CE test results here. These great test results are worth advertising.

As you can see, this is the start of a trend for customers who want clothing that is proven as CE Personal Protective Equipment. Judging by the posts here, I expect this trend to grow in future. Because of its Level 2 certification, the Spidi Ergo 365 jacket is now very high on the list for my next jacket. I had not considered Spidi before.

Please could Spidi make a version of the Ergo 365 jacket with a DPS airbag? Is this something the on-fit service could do? For safety conscious customers, now we have to choose between a CE-jacket and an airbag jacket. This is important, because of the competition from Dainese's D-Air Street jacket. I imagine the demand for airbag jackets was low. However, Alpinestars and Dainese advertising will grow the market for airbag jackets in future.

Hi Valentino.
As you're maybe aware of, Spidi has been producing and selling Motorcycle Airbags since 1999.


After 13 years and a lot of Airbags successfully ridden (and crashed) around the world, we can say Spidi is the most experienced Company in this field.
It is good that after all these years competitors have finally understood they couldn't be off this important market, as airbags have saved so many lives in these past years, and represented real milestones in safety protection. Of course Spidi is very proud of that.

Anyhow, from our knowledge the consumer likes to change jacket during the seasons and during the years; we can't ask you to buy a new airbag every time; the best solution is to wear an Airbag vest over your standard jacket (better if that jacket is CE certified).
Our proposal at the moment is Neck DPS Vest:


The vest can be worn over any type of jacket and (opening a zip on the back) even over a leather suit with aerodynamic hump.

In the case you want a full leather suit Airbag equipped, you go with the T2 Neck DPS, and in the case you want an Adventure jacket with Airbag, you can have the Venture Neck DPS, which is a 3-layer, multi-season H2Out jacket, and comes with Warrior Chest protector Level 1 and Warrior Evo Inside Back protector Level 2.


Anyway, the most flexible solution remain the vest.

My suggestion to you is Neck DPS Vest + Ergo 365 Pro.


Thanks again for your interest


Matteo De Vito
Spidi Marketing Dept
Vicenza - Italy
__________________
Established in 1977, Spidi is a world leader in technical motorcycle apparel.

Spidi is creator of Ergo Jacket.

Visit us here.
Spidi - on track is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2012, 04:05 PM   #41
ranmafan OP
Gnarly Adventurer
 
ranmafan's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2010
Location: Cowtown, Canada
Oddometer: 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by MZ5 View Post
There was a request up the thread to make this a sticky. If something like that is done, then for my part I would like a catalog of what's certified AND ALSO EVERYTHING THAT HAS PASSED THE CE PERFORMANCE TESTS.
I see no problem with that, as long as the manufacturer is honest about their current status. (Albeit personally, I hope this practice does not become a trend.)

However, there's a major caveat here: not having the CE tags means zero legal responsibility on manufacturer's part. They are free to switch suppliers, change stitching styles, change the process - all without notice. In other words, we're back to square one, having to rely on manufacturer's word. "Passing the test" means exactly that - some sample, somewhere, has passed the test. If the sample you buy happens to be different from the one they tested, tough luck.
ranmafan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2012, 05:38 PM   #42
ranmafan OP
Gnarly Adventurer
 
ranmafan's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2010
Location: Cowtown, Canada
Oddometer: 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by MZ5 View Post
The whole line of Xpd (that's Spidi's boot brand name) XP-7 boots are CE level 2 certified. I have a photo of the tags in mine, but nowhere to host them at the moment. You can see their boot lineup here:
http://www.xpdboots.com/jspxpd/xpdboots.jsp?catid=1
Methinks somebody's been smoking something...
Quote:
This boot is CE certified as a protective garment as per EN13634. This boot has also gained Level 2 CE certification for its resistance against cutting (EN3886) and impact (EN13595).
EN3886 is "Aerospace series - Heat resisting alloy NI-WH1303 (NiCo20Cr20Mo5Ti2Al) - Filler metal for welding", and while EN13595 does have some "impact" tests, I don't think it has anything to do with boots at all.

A photo of the actual tag would be helpful. I'll try to make some sense of this later.
ranmafan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2012, 06:01 PM   #43
moggi1964
Tiger Keeper
 
moggi1964's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2011
Location: Madison, NJ
Oddometer: 541
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spidi - on track View Post
Hello everybody.

I'd been asked from a component of your team to clarify that Ergo 365 Pro and Ergo 365 Pro Expedition Jackets are CE Certified EN 13595-1.


This is the norm that you pass once your product has passed 3 group of tests:

GROUP 1 : Impact and abrasion resistance
GROUP 2 : Cut resistance
GROUP 3 : Cut strength

You can pass each group of test at different levels.
The higher is the value the higher is the level number.
Spidi jackets passed at level 2, that is the higher level (the worst is level 1); here're the Spidi test result values:



For that reason, Ergo 365 Pro and Ergo 365 Pro Expedition are certified 13595-1 at level 2.
Here you see the pictogram inside the jacket :



Numbers on the right mean the 3 test groups have been passed at level 2.

Ergo Pro pants are not certified, even if the materials are same as jacket, number of layers is same, construction type is the same. The reason is just commercial: pants have not been tested.

Even in Europe the demand of this certification is new, probably these pants and other Spidi items will pass the certification in a close future.



Thanks all for your attention, if you want to follow Spidi in the forum please go to the thread

Matteo De Vito
Spidi Marketing Dept
Vicenza - Italy
Great results, well ahead of the requirements in almost everything. Bravo for posting them.

I feel quietly smug for having bought your Ergo 365 Expedition suit
__________________
Moggi1964

Triumph Explorer
moggi1964 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2012, 08:11 PM   #44
MZ5
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Jul 2011
Location: Arizona, USA
Oddometer: 102
Outstanding, Matteo! Thanks for posting this information!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spidi - on track View Post
Hello everybody.

I'd been asked from a component of your team to clarify that Ergo 365 Pro and Ergo 365 Pro Expedition Jackets are CE Certified EN 13595-1.

This is the norm that you pass once your product has passed 3 group of tests:

GROUP 1 : Impact and abrasion resistance
GROUP 2 : Cut resistance
GROUP 3 : Cut strength

You can pass each group of test at different levels.
The higher is the value the higher is the level number.
Spidi jackets passed at level 2, that is the higher level (the worst is level 1); here're the Spidi test result values:



For that reason, Ergo 365 Pro and Ergo 365 Pro Expedition are certified 13595-1 at level 2.
Here you see the pictogram inside the jacket :



Numbers on the right mean the 3 test groups have been passed at level 2.

Ergo Pro pants are not certified, even if the materials are same as jacket, number of layers is same, construction type is the same. The reason is just commercial: pants have not been tested.

Even in Europe the demand of this certification is new, probably these pants and other Spidi items will pass the certification in a close future.



Thanks all for your attention, if you want to follow Spidi in the forum please go to the thread

Matteo De Vito
Spidi Marketing Dept
Vicenza - Italy
MZ5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2012, 08:17 PM   #45
MZ5
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Jul 2011
Location: Arizona, USA
Oddometer: 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by ranmafan View Post
I see no problem with that, as long as the manufacturer is honest about their current status. (Albeit personally, I hope this practice does not become a trend.)

However, there's a major caveat here: not having the CE tags means zero legal responsibility on manufacturer's part. They are free to switch suppliers, change stitching styles, change the process - all without notice. In other words, we're back to square one, having to rely on manufacturer's word. "Passing the test" means exactly that - some sample, somewhere, has passed the test. If the sample you buy happens to be different from the one they tested, tough luck.
I understand your point. OTOH, you and I are in North America (assuming we both are honest and current in our profile info), which means that there is zero legal responsibility either way. We _always_ rely on the word of others, whether we want to or not. Unless you work at SATRA and have access to the machinery at night, that is. ;)

Yes, the site is mis-printed. I'll try to post or somehow send you the pic this weekend.
MZ5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 04:57 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014